trade?

[hoosier]

im not trying to start anything or get out of hand. i hope you do find a good home for it but im just saying we all did give some advise. its all ment to be quite calm but i have to state my opinion. im sorry its not what you want to hear but you bought a lizard that everyone said would be good if you waited due to what it was but you got it and a few days later its up on the classifieds because its not "what you thought it would be". im sorry that is upsetting to me and correct me if im wrong but im positive im not the only one who thinks so.

 

[james.w]

I agree 100% with you hoosier.

 

[Grendel]

I also agree with hoosier 100%, there is no need to lock down this thread. Everyone has been civil, and restrained, it is also an extremely educational one for others who are planning to get a large monitor, or another "not easy" to care for animal.

 

[hoosier]

I also agree with hoosier 100%, there is no need to lock down this thread. Everyone has been civil, and restrained, it is also an extremely educational one for others who are planning to get a large monitor, or another "not easy" to care for animal.

very much so

 

[got10]

post a pic

 

[Neeko]

We all make decisions, as long as your guy finds the eight owner and proper care. It's just a learning experience and being human is just humanitys greatest flaw.

 

[herpgirl2510]

LOL are you kidding that was quick. How long have you had him that he is not what you expect. Don't misinform people about him being tame some people may not know better and believe you and that is not being fair to the person or the animal because in a few months they will be trying to get rid of it. You should oncentrate on a permanent home with someone who understands what a huge undertaking an ornate monitor is. I have an 18 year old so this is not surprising kids do very impulsivve things. Like I said it is the cool fqactor of owning a lizard like that. I think if I were you I would stick to what you have at the moment. Tegus are big animals that when they are little can be an impulsive act. I think at your age focus one the tegus you have for now.

 

[new2tegus]

Sorry, but I'd have to agree. They did warn you that this was a lizard that would take work and time, just think you rushed into this, and some people are a little upset for the future of this beautiful monitor. People ask when you have reptiles for such a short time. I can tell you I love my tegu and I would never give him up. I'm just mow able to put my hand in the cage and have him walk on it or sleep next to it. Sorry but I just think many feel you didn't give it enough time, and most experienced reptile keepers know the space time and money large lizards will need and how hard it's going to be to re home a monitor like this. Good luck, sorry it didn't work out and hope you find him a home.

 

[Dereks-Dragons]

Again. And last time I am going to say it so maybe people will stop saying it has to do with the care, it doesn't. He is cared for fine and I am keeping him now. I had talked to a few ppm interested and nobody seemed fit or knowledgeable enough so I'm kist going to keep him so save the stress from yet another shippping plus you ne'er know what the other people will do to it. He's slowly growing on me. He is a sweet lil guy he used to hiss and puff butmo biting, now he is a calm "friend" like my tegus. The tegus aren't the only "large" reps I have. And certainly not as much of a handful as my 2 full grown rescue green iguanas YET lol. I'm capable. I may only be a teenager but I'm "different" so to say lol. I had to put this poor lil monitor in a 55g tank becausE the previous owner had him in a tiny 2x2x2 and once I put himin a 7x2x18 inch he freaked and stopped eating :/ he's good now. And the more I handle him the more he grows on me he's a rele cute lil guy. Can't wait for th full grown product.

 

[james.w]

Sorry to say but if he is calm, he is probably extremely stressed and not setup properly. How do you have him set up??

Enclosure is a 55 gallon right? Is there a top on it? What kind? Substrate type/depth? Temps, ambient and basking? Humidity? Diet?

 

[Dereks-Dragons]

I don't think ALL are really that nasty ... Like stated efore he used to hiss and whip and puff up(still puffs a lil). But cage is a 55g acrylic tank. 4 inches of a cypress/soil mix. Humidity around 60-70 sometimes goes down to 40-50 until I mist. Feeding on pinkies, superworms, ground turkey/chicken and sometimes eggs but he hasent touched the Eggs. Lid is just a moist towel draped over it for now(easy access and help humidity). Got a 10.0 UVB then a 100 degree basking spot abient is 80 or so I the middle and over on the far end by the water bowl Its mid to high 70s

 

[james.w]

Basking spot should be 130-140. Humidity shouldn't drop below 65%. Should be up around 75-80% consistently. You need to get a solid lid on the cage, you shouldn't have to mist at all.

 

[hoosier]

Again. And last time I am going to say it so maybe people will stop saying it has to do with the care, it doesn't. He is cared for fine and I am keeping him now. I had talked to a few ppm interested and nobody seemed fit or knowledgeable enough so I'm kist going to keep him so save the stress from yet another shippping plus you ne'er know what the other people will do to it. He's slowly growing on me. He is a sweet lil guy he used to hiss and puff butmo biting, now he is a calm "friend" like my tegus. The tegus aren't the only "large" reps I have. And certainly not as much of a handful as my 2 full grown rescue green iguanas YET lol. I'm capable. I may only be a teenager but I'm "different" so to say lol. I had to put this poor lil monitor in a 55g tank becausE the previous owner had him in a tiny 2x2x2 and once I put himin a 7x2x18 inch he freaked and stopped eating :/ he's good now. And the more I handle him the more he grows on me he's a rele cute lil guy. Can't wait for th full grown product.

a healthy monitor of any species, especially young ones, are not "calm" by any means and def should not act like your tegus. adults tend to take being handled (moving to another encosure...etc) better but still not really "calm". if you posted this on a monitor specific site i'm not sure you would enjoy the responses. i understand that you have a few Iggs and gus but i would not equate that to owning a ornatus. that would be a mistake. a 6ft 20ish lb vegetarian will not be the same as a 6ft 50+ carnivore. he will dwarf both tegus and iggs. i wouldnt handle him until he gets settled in either because that just adds to the stress of being in a new environment. he might be "calm" because he is wayyyyy stressed

---

again we are not trying to be mean but there are a lot of people who will take "calm" and say its a very sweet and tame lizard where in reality its listless and maybe "im super stressed and its making me sick". this is especially true in monitor lizards

 

[JohnMatthew]

First off, tame is a completely subjective term so maybe he was being 100% honest when labeling his monitor as such. I think it would be up to the buyer to question the extent of the "tameness", I know I certainly would if I were responding to such an ad. Also, there are acceptions to any rule, so if his monitor is less aggressive than average for the species and age I wouldn't necessarily call the owner a liar or accuse them of keeping it in less than optimal conditions. That being said I think an impulse buy was made, even after receiving advice to not rush into anything(which is probably why there are more than a few people who've gotten a bit peeved at this person's situation), but at least the owner seems to be doing their best to set things right - mainly, trying to find it a more suitable home while in the meantime taking care of the lizard to the best of their ability and knowledge. I get more upset when people make impulse buys and take crap care of their animals while trying to find it a new home or worse, releasing it into the wild. I think Derek has learned this lesson through trial and not much else needs to be said other than some helpful husbandry advice where applicable.

As to iguana vs monitor and whether one prepares you at all for the other, it depends what aspects of the animals we're talking about.. I've seen some VERY nasty iguanas and just because they're vegetarians doesn't mean they can't rip you a new one in a heartbeat. Doing a search for green iguana bites, here are a couple I found real quick. Granted, you can find some pretty nasty monitor bites but both seem more than capable of causing serious damage and all should be treated with equal respect. I think underestimating the damage potential of an animal is the first step to a serious mishap when interacting.

My rambling 2 cents anyway, take it or leave it.

These two are same thread, just pages 1 and 3:
http://board.reptilechannel.com/Topic91236-7-1.aspx
http://board.reptilechannel.com/Topic91236-7-3.aspx

http://www.todaysplanet.com/pg/beta/lizardlover/page6.htm

---

Didn't even notice this is a for sale/trade thread, sorry for hijacking it further.

 

[james.w]

After he stated, how he was keeping the monitor it shows he isn't keeping him correctly. Monitors need HIGH heat, deep substrate and proper humidity to survive in captivitiy. He doesn't have any of these right.

 

[hoosier]

we were not calling him a liar by no means, simply pointing out that the basking, ambiant temps, substrate depth and humidity were off. these lizards are an african river dwelling animal and without high enough temps the lizard can develop a plethera of illnesses and cause the "calm" demenor. any caresheet you read that is reputable will tell you that an ornatus or niloticus(very closely related) are highly agressive and active.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/666343-nile-monitor.html

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/348711-nile-monitor.html

---

please read those. your not the only one in your position and we are not the only ones i ours. favorite quote is "good luck" after one person said they can tame their nile. those words are comming from nile and ornate keepers so hopefully they will carry more weight for you

 

[JohnMatthew]

Just thought some of the replies could have been taken the wrong way. The information and links I'm sure will be helpful to the OP and/or anybody else thinking of getting one of these animals. I applaud your efforts to help your fellow herper and keeping it relatively civil considering he did not heed previous advice given. Hopefully someone thinking of getting a monitor will find threads such as these to help them make a more informed decision.

 

[james.w]

I don't think ALL are really that nasty ... Like stated efore he used to hiss and whip and puff up(still puffs a lil). But cage is a 55g acrylic tank. 4 inches of a cypress/soil mix. Humidity around 60-70 sometimes goes down to 40-50 until I mist. Feeding on pinkies, superworms, ground turkey/chicken and sometimes eggs but he hasent touched the Eggs. Lid is just a moist towel draped over it for now(easy access and help humidity). Got a 10.0 UVB then a 100 degree basking spot abient is 80 or so I the middle and over on the far end by the water bowl Its mid to high 70s

Can you post some pics of the setup?

 

[hoosier]

Just thought some of the replies could have been taken the wrong way. The information and links I'm sure will be helpful to the OP and/or anybody else thinking of getting one of these animals. I applaud your efforts to help your fellow herper and keeping it relatively civil considering he did not heed previous advice given. Hopefully someone thinking of getting a monitor will find threads such as these to help them make a more informed decision.

thank you and im just being straight foward and honest. he may not like the responses but its reality. many many people have been injured by these animals, they have been sold off or even released into the wild due to their agressiveness and evidence of that is in flordia and laws moving to ban them from being kept. be it because inexperience or ignorance, this species or more specifically subspecies, is a very tough captive and even owners on the threads i shown say those words and they themselves get attacked frequently and are def not a beginning monitor keeper(which he is)'s dream. the sad reality is that those "wild" flordia niles are being killed with extreme prejudice to clean up the mess of their forefathers' keepers. they are not very forgiving captives unlike the beardies, iggs and tegus he already keeps. their health can turn south for any number of reasons including too little humidity or basking temp.
Dereks-Dragons: i pray you did get that exception to the rule because i dread the much more likely outcome. also in your original thread you stated you were going to get it to a vet for a clean bill of health, did you? that could rule out sickness and help with you calm theory. also just for my arguement in the orignal thread you showed his brother and how "nasty as all hell" he was with a pic of him biting his keepers hand. thats how an ornate is suppose to act.
im just being straight up. im trying to imply no attitude but i wont sugar coat it. im sorry if it comes off harshly but if i try to be nice and say "oh hes probably an exception, your very lucky" he could sit idly by while it slowly dies from parasites or an infection because its basking spot was not warm enough to create proper diggestion or ambient temps were not warm enough to support its needs. or worse still it could get better and one day want to taste his hand because he went to pet its face to show a friend how "tame" it is. what then? the animal get punished for the mistakes of its sole means for survival(the keeper) just by being the creature of its natural instincts and and the rule of thumb for its species.
again im trying to keep attitude out but im looking out for him(and his folks because even if its tame towards him it most surely does not know them and may see them as a real threat) but im honestly more worried about the lizard and its well being.
if our advise was followed and he asked what kind of large monitor to get i would have probably have said black throat because they are more hardy of a species and have better temperments and tolerate a beginning keepers mistakes better.
thats my whole hearted opinion and i even gave examples, links and an alternative to back my points. take from it what you will

 

[james.w]

Just to correct one thing hoosier said, V. Ornatus is it's own species it is not a subspeices of V. Niloticus. I have not heard of any of them being caught or seen running wild in Florida.