another damn vet bill, with great relief and expectations

[krazyeyez]

So about five weeks ago, my female DRAZIL began her recovery from the longest shed retention ever... It was a miracle... After almost a year and a half, the dead skin simply started to fall off. Her bright vibrant pattern was back. In that same week, my male NOGARD made every possible attempt to escape his tank... I had thought I broke home of this habbit. I realized that weekend, while feeding, what he was after. With her fresh new skin, came oily lizard pheromones... He was on her like a monkey to a tree. Ok, woo hoo.... After all this time, success.... Yeah, not so fast.
The following week, she tried, and successfully escaped her tank, every day... Even after $40 in straps for both of them. What the Hell is going on. By Friday, she escaped again, only this time something was different. When I picked her up, she was limp from the middle down. I went into a full on panic attack... I was frantic. Her cage sits 5ft up in the air, I thought she maybe sustained a spinal injury. I and two friends began calling every vet in 60 mile radius from here.... None were open, no herps where in town or on call even. Finally, my friend came across some articles about egg binding... And oddly it started to fit. So a little peace of mind, and some more thing to worry about... Is she ok, will she need surgery, can I recover her and have her go full term.
Finally, today, my herp vet is back in town. We get in, I explain everything, lack in mobility, lack of food consumption... $175 later... She get three x-rays, come to find out, she is quite healthy, and very pregnant. Doc says I have pleanty of time to help bring her vitamin and calcium levels up, and we just may be having healthy babies soon
So, keep your eyes open... There are new blue red crosses coming, bred from both blue red cross parents. Pray for a healthy drop and incubation guys... I will post more soon, but for now, I have a lot of work to do in a short time... Building a huge enclosure and incubator.

 

[laurarfl]

Best of luck with this one. I would encourage you to feed her a lot of whole prey, bump up the humidity, and find a liquid calcium supplement. I wouldn't plan on housing them together since gravid females can seriously harm or even kill other tegus around their nesting site.

 

[TegusRawsome80]

Why is her escapable cage 5 feet in the air? That's a very avoidable problem lol. How big is the cage and what are you feeding?

 

[krazyeyez]

Thanks for being helpful and encouraging, Laura.... The larger enclosure is for there future cohabitation and growth... And so I have the current tanks to house the babies until they find good homes. And I have only been feeding her enriched turkey, chicken wing tips, and pedialyte with water in a syringe bc she can't drag herself to the water dish.

 

[TegusRawsome80]

So she can't walk? I would toss the meat and feed her whole prey. It's much more supportive and provides more calcium(which gravid animals need lots of).

 

[krazyeyez]

Rawome... I would appreciate you ask more questions before you give your opinion. She can't move bc she is carrying more eggs than a typical first clutch, probably bc she is already 4&1/2 years old, I waited to breed her until I found a male with the same traits that didn't come from the same breeder, and then I had to wait until she cleared up from shed retention. The eggs are pushing against her intestinal track and her spine... U can not give her large meals, or large bones if any at all. She is doing quite well with the enriched turkey diet that bobby used to recommend plus calcium. In the future though, unless helpful, please mind your opinions, the one you left on my other thread came off quite snooty and rude.

 

[SnakeCharmr728]

I dont see the problem, Tegusrawsome said the same thing that Laura did and you didnt have any issue with that?

From a nutritional standpoint and now that you have laid out more details, I recommend whole prey too. but you can give it in other forms, put a mouse or rat in a meat grinder or blender. sounds gross but seriously, will be worth it in the end. Especially if her body is making such a large clutch size she really needs the right nutrition to support her body, without that you will run into a lot of problems. ground turkey mix (I am familiar with Bobbys diet) lacks a lot of nutritents that gravid females MUST have, even when additional calcium or egg yolk is added. Even ground up organ meats would be better than ground turkey. Its an inferior diet and has had a lot infertility and egg formation problems when used by some other breeders. Without making assumptions on what that diet did to Bobby's stock but Im sure others will have the same "assumptions" as I do... when we are talking about strictly a nutritional standpoint and not just everyones opinions on whats best. Whole prey (in any form!) is 100% better and much needed when females are gravid.

 

[TegusRawsome80]

She can't walk because she's gravid? I haven't heard of that problem before. Honestly, I find your approach to be rather unorthodox and not good for the animals, so yes I do have an issue with it. I hope your tegu is alright but it sounds like you have some SERIOUS husbandry problems that you should have figured out before breeding. Having your tegu fall 5 feet to the ground while gravid is extremely dangerous.

 

[krazyeyez]

Snakecharm, I definitely agree, whole prey is better.... And the "enriched" turkey diet I feed is exactly that... Ground, fatty turkey, cod liver oil, bananas, apples and calcium.... Then I oscillate with another batch that has ground beef liver with no fruit. Yes, bobby's basic diet did not have enough nutrient or lipids... And when he previously told me that that was all he fed, I thought he was cheap or just plain nuts. My vet on the other hand agrees with the diet I have her on for the remainder of her term. And the comment I referenced was from another thread... But thank you for your input.

 

[krazyeyez]

Again.... Rawsome, your opinion comes off rude... Ask me straight out next time.... Di you actually believe I would allow her to fall.... I put $40 into straps to keep the lid down. The day she last fell, she broke a pane of tempered glass to do so. If you don't think u tend to my animals, then you don't know the first thing about me and obviously haven't read any of my past threads. I have spent thousands of dollars on maintaining the health of both of my tegus and more on others. If you don't know that a tegu, 4 ft of solid muscle, can and will do anything within their power to escape, whenever they want to, then you don't know **** about them. And finally your insinuation as to my bad husbandry, again, comes off as though you're nothing more than one of those forum trolls that waits for any opportunity to throw out their unwarranted and unnecessary opinionated comments to get a rise out of people.... Unless you take the time to read my older post, and have a half way decent apology for me, stay off my threads, they are posted with the intent to get real advise and give it to those that don't have several years experience raising these animals.

 

[TegusRawsome80]

Well, let's address these points 1 by 1. You can say my opinion is rude, I prefer the word blunt. I don't tip toe around trying to not hurt your feelings. I think that wastes time. I have kept tegus for 8 years so you should revise your "don't know #%#" theory because it's simply not true. I know exactly what tegus can do, that's why mine are housed in impossible to escape situations. My adult male black and white is currently in an 8x3.5x2.5 cage with plexiglass doors with multiple locked down latches that prevent him from escaping. My other tegu is in a similarly unescapable cage. I don't plan on apologizing for stating my mind, it's a public forum. I do think your husbandry could be improved. Maybe if your tegus desperately trying to escape, she's telling you that something in your husbandry is wrong. As keepers it is our job to try and make sure our animals are content enough that they won't harm themselves attempting to escape.

 

[Tannaros]

Well, let's address these points 1 by 1. You can say my opinion is rude, I prefer the word blunt. I don't tip toe around trying to not hurt your feelings. I think that wastes time.

There is a certain amount of politeness and cordiality that I believe all people should strive to meet. There is absolutely no way to try and argue that simply including a small bit of levity or lack of malicious statements wouldn't make people take the information you offer them much better than currently.

I can understand if one simply lacks the normal social graces that people generally have - but I doubt that is the case currently Awesome.

Insults were exchanged, probably not even intentionally, and it simply escalated into a defensive argument between you two. Just let it go and carry on with the tegus.

 

[krazyeyez]

Yes, tannoros, this has become an impolite, pudding contest, thank you for your astute observation... So, now that this thread has been hijacked in a different direction, can we get back to the reason for posting? I have q pregnant female, now some thirty days, it has been explanied to expect her to lay eggs between 55-88 days, then 60 to incubate.... She shows signs similar to egg binding ( she's weak from the middle down), she cannot pull herself to the water bowl, she cannot eat live or whole prey. My vet advised me that her eggs are so many and large that they are pressing against her spine causing the lack in mobility, not any sort of injury. She also advised me to continue feeding calcium and lipid enriched ground turkey as long as shw will eat, as well as mix pedialyte with water and shoot it into the mouth of my tegu with a baby syringe to keep her hydrated.
And yes in the meantime, I have a great deal of work to do, both in converting a wine fridge into a stable incubator and building a very large enclosure.I currently am dealing with a fabrication shop to build 4'x8'x4" pans to make up the basin and hood of my enclosure, and I have 6x 4'x3.5' display case frames with locking tempered glass doors on hold .... This thing is going to be bigger than my pool table.
Another thought, assuming the time tables .given to me are correct, I live in the hottest place on earth, if they hatch before summer is over, I will not be able to ship until the temp drops below 100...
So, any advice you guts have, relavent to all this would be appreciated....
Thanks

 

[TegusRawsome80]

I think you need to re investigate the weakness and inability to walk. I would maybe get a second opinion from another vet. It is very weird that it would coincidentally fall then lose mobility. She could be egg bound FROM the fall, which if she is egg bound would be my bet. Here's a list of possible causes for egg binding that I found online.
Egg binding can have a variety of causes including:

• Illness​
• Malnutrition​
• Lack of a suitable nesting site​
• Weak muscles from lack of exercise​
• Misshapen or large eggs​
• Injuries to the pelvis or other disorders that narrow the passageway for eggs or young​
• Improper temperature gradients or humidity levels within the terrarium​

 

[krazyeyez]

Thank you for that, rawsome, those were my immediate concerns as well. However after my vet bounced her info and x rays off a zoologist she deals with they said it was more likely the size of the eggs pressing against nerves. I hope they are right.... I continue to hand feed her and give her water amd electrolytes everyday.... Anybody have any good ideas on material I can give her to nest?

 

[SnakeCharmr728]

wheat straw makes excellent nesting material.

 

[krazyeyez]

Thanks snakecharm

 

[laurarfl]

My concern would be that if it is eggs pressing against eggs that have weakened her back end, that would also weaken the muscles required for laying. Does she defecate normally? Does she lift her tail and wiggle feces when she has to go? Sorry to sound so weird about it, but that would be the same motion required to pass eggs, especially large eggs. The period before laying is not as long as 60 days, please do not wait that long.

 

[laurarfl]

And, let's do be polite, even when disagreeing. If you say that it is because you wish to help, then be polite and helpful, please.

 

[SnakeCharmr728]

any update?