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Sick Red, looking for suggestions.

Discussion in 'General Tegu Discussion' started by Vayjining22, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    Hey guys, back after being a ghost for a year or two, but it's a good thing!

    However my adult male red is sick.
    I've went to the vet 2x in the last 8 days and he has done a mouth culture (no results yet) and 2 rounds of baytril at a lower concentration due to my concern of the severity of the drug on reptiles.

    Airways are clear (according to vet) no signs of labored breathing... But his mouth was a little slimy and irritated. reason for culture.

    He seems healthy other than the fact that he refuses to eat. He's active, still hand tame(doesn't seem agitated or Ill). Seeks water (from his tub) and drinks from the mister when I spray the enclosure down 2x a day. However he has lost weight and started to lose it in his tail which was the last straw and why I took him to the vet. He does still have bowel movements regularly although since he hasn't eaten its mostly white stuff and a bit of liquid, just no solid brown.

    Hot side is 104-11x depending on time of day in the house and his cool side is 73-80 and he does regulate by going from one end to the other throughout the day. Night Temps I would imagine get into the upper 60s but I leave a 250w emitter on where he sleeps.

    Also there's an appropriate sized mega ray in there, and he is freshly shed

    His weight was 15lb 11oz last Monday and he usually runs in the low 20s.


    Continuously Offered fruit, frozen and live prey, ground meats, eggs(boiled, scrambled, raw).. Just no catfood yet.

    I'm at the point where I'm wanting to force feed but I have 0 idea where to even start with that and if it's an option ..... But I can't stand seeing him just lose weight.

    I do tong feed exclusively and I've never busted him eating substrate before or seen it in his stool so I doubt it's impaction but the vet wants to sedate for x-rays if we get to that point and idk. Seems overkill.


    Thanks for reading and if I missed something just ask! I just want him to be well again.
  2. Zyn

    Zyn Active Member

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    Did he try and brumate and you stopped him? Or possible parasites have you checked his number 2s? And does he get enough UVB exposure
    Walter1 likes this.
  3. Walter1

    Walter1 Moderator Staff Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    I ask every question of Zyn.
  4. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    Aside from the 2's just being white (no crystals or anything) and some Liquid there's nothing fecal in there to look at, unless I can take apart the white stuff? I just don't know if they'll be in there.

    Its a large enclosure but the mega ray is a 160 and around I think 18-20 inches above where he normally basks. (recommended distance by them)

    He's never brumated fully but does go through a period of inactivity during winter time where he would get up 2 or 3 times every 2 weeks, but I wouldn't offer food because I've read it can like rot if they decide to stay down for awhile. In the 4 years I've had him I've never disturbed him when he's in his hide. Even during normal times, if he's in there he's in there. If he was coming out of brumating I would think he would be excited to feed but it doesn't seem that way.... Hell put his tongue on whatever I try and offer and just be like nah man. And walk away.

    I appreciate the replies!
  5. Zyn

    Zyn Active Member

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    How olds the mega Rey I believe they only produce UVB for about 6 months
  6. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    Got her in December still good for a bit. I am under the care of a vet currently but I've been reading about giving Panacur to lizards to deworm them..... Would I be out of line in trying this? Parasites are literally the only thing I can think of, but with the stool being so wet I have no idea how I'd get that to the vet to be tested unless they can test just the dry white parts?
  7. dpjm

    dpjm Active Member 5 Year Member

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    Off topic for this thread, but I have a 160 W Mega Ray that I have been using since Oct 2015, which is 2.5 years. Has lost very little of it's UV output over that time, measured with a Solarmeter 6.5.

    Dry white parts (urates) are not good for testing for parasites, as far as I can remember. I have used panacur in lizards to treat parasites.
  8. Walter1

    Walter1 Moderator Staff Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Your description of his winter behavior is brumation. Some sleep hard, others come out from time to time and lightly bask.

    Once fully emerged, takes a few weeks to want to eat. They start with eating a little, then almost overnight shift to gluttony. Such is the life of a lizard hardwired to strong seasonality in activity.
  9. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    Thanks for the hopeful words Walter! Would he intentionally emaciate himself? I understand seasonal drive etc. But boy this guy is really starting to worry me with his weight. I'm going to do a 50mg/kg dose of panacur and repta-boost and see if that gets him going. I can't stand to see him waste. No just hope I don't ruin our handling relationship putting a syringe with no needle in his mouth :/
  10. Walter1

    Walter1 Moderator Staff Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    His health is first. Don't worry about trust. He'll quickly get over it. What should happen is the lizard goes into brumation with a fat tIl and meat on its hips. Even a little dimple running down its back with fat. It will lose a little weight overwinter, that is why a skinny tegu should not be allowed to overwinter or overwinter for long.

    Panacur can't hurt and is a good idea with new acquisitions, generally.
  11. Guman

    Guman Active Member

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    Sorry, this is so late. Has he ever had an xray? Could you make him a temp enclosure out of plastic tub with nothing in the bottom to get a sample or they can do a digital to get a stool sample. I would not worm him without a vet doing a dose calculation. Can you tell us more about your vet? What is his history with reptiles? (In the back of my mind I wonder why the vet has not suggested stool sample). However, not saying it is a bad vet either. I asked about xray bc I have a Tag with MBD that retrospectively went off food first. Do you use CA+ or other suplementations? This was before a bowle prolapse. Any talk to doing a blood count? Other ideas check out to see if you have a reptile group in area if you want a second vet opinion. Do you have a vet school close with an exotics speciality they may be cheeper optio for a large diagnostic work up. For example, had a iguana break out of out door enclosure and spent a night outside was stiff and cold when I found her. After warming she was lathargic for 2 days so brought her in. An exam supplies to force feed and subcutaneous fluids cost $400. The work up and 3 day ICU care for my tags xrays, blood work, two minor procedures (with anesthesia), stool sample retrieval & test, force feed supplies, worming, antibiotics for one month, antiinflamitories for 2 weeks, and two extended visits cost around $1200 at vet school.

    If you feel he needs force fead I can help you with the process.
  12. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    The vet suggested a fecal early on, but with only urates and liquid it would be difficult to transport it to the office.

    He's done some critical surgeries on iguanas and general treatment.

    The dose for panacur in reptiles is close to public Info, but I asked his opinion prior and we actually consulted the same publication.

    Finally was able to give him the panacur yesterday with a good helping of repta boost...........

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand he passed this. Thinking tapeworm?

    Have an appointment for Monday and I have that thing in a bottle. Hopefully he can advise maybe something stronger than panacur. And we'll probably definitely do the x-ray with sedation so we can see how bad they are if they are tapeworms.

    Attached Files:

  13. Walter1

    Walter1 Moderator Staff Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Interesting. Please keep the forum updated. Cheers for success.
  14. Guman

    Guman Active Member

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    Is it flat or round?
  15. dpjm

    dpjm Active Member 5 Year Member

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    It looks like a sperm plug to me, but I asked my AHT from work if she has seen a parasite that looks like this. I'll let you know.
  16. dpjm

    dpjm Active Member 5 Year Member

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    That photo is of a copulatory plug, regularly ejected by males along with feces/urates. My AHT has never seen a worm that looks like that and she has seen many. She also thinks it is a plug.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mating_plug
  17. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    Well damn. I was always used to seeing his plugs in a pair or U-shaped. Not saying that i don't trust your friend or anything, I guess it's just denial since I kinda don't want to face the fact that he's dying.

    I am scheduled to see the vet again this coming Monday, so we'll see what happens. Maybe I can give him another 12cc of repta boost while I'm there or something. I figure if sedation for the x-ray is only a couple hundred I might as well give it a shot. Because at this rate, if he doesn't make it through the sedative, whatever is going on with him to where he won't eat will be the end regardless.

    Its all just puzzling to me. Nothing has changed in his care over the 5 years of his life. And to this day he's still active, daily.

    I appreciate all the support from the users here who've given ideas and help.
  18. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    It is also a possibility that he could be experiencing MBD from my little research. I'd like to think the Mercury vapor was good enough. If I guess it's, well what I'm hoping, "early onset" if there's such a thing..... Is it possible to reverse it? Anything I should suggest to the vet? Or maybe use rescue cal? The main symptoms here's are obviously appetite loss accompanied by weight loss. But that's about it. No strange growths or lumps or from what I can tell reduced bone mass.
  19. Vayjining22

    Vayjining22 Member

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    Gave him a good long 40 minute long soak. He drank plenty of water and I got some actual stool from him. I've also made the call to step up from the regular vet I see who is mildly exp with herps to a full on vet specialist an hour away. I'm wondering if he's stopped up.

    Attached Files:

  20. Walter1

    Walter1 Moderator Staff Member 1,000+ Post Club

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    Huh, could be. Somwthing that does happen.
    Guman likes this.