Hibernating columbian???

[TheDutchesss]

Hi everyone, this is my first post I recently found tegutalk and have been reading up on my new tegu but have a concern, hoping you guys can help me out! She is a 2 year old columbian and I've had her for about 3 months. She had been eating well and was active but since late January she is constantly sleeping. She will stay asleep until I wake her. I thought she was maybe brumating? I read that Columbian tegus don't hibernate so want to make sure she's okay! Has anyone experienced this with a Columbian? I have her lamps on normal schedule with basking temp in 90s. She mostly eats meat and eggs (previous owner didn't like mice & bugs so she's pretty picky!) I can wake her up but after a few minutes she's back to burrowing and sleeping. 2 weeks ago she came out on her own to bask and eat but have not seen her out on her own since. Is this normal?! She's not huge on handling so I try not to disturb her when she's sleeping, should I wake her regularly if she keeps sleeping?
Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Walter1]

Hi Dutchess,

It sure sounds like brumation. I've also heard that Columbian Tegus don't brumate, but not from any authority. Could be that their natural geographic range is such that in some places they do and others they don't. Also some could overwinter more so than others. JRock keeps a Columbian as do some other members. I hope that they can help.

 

[TheDutchesss]

Hey thanks so much for your input! there really isn't much info on the web about their brumating/hibernating and like you said the people who make claims have no sources! So happy I found this forum. I've never had a reptile in brumation so want to make sure I'm keeping her healthy. Not sure if I need to change her set up during this time

 

[Jrock23]

Ok a lot of people research outdated information, Columbian Tegus do not go into hibernation... However they do go into a "Mild Brumation" Still offer food every few days, do not dig out your tegu for handling, if please in burrow of out of burrow do not handle. Allow the rest period, If you want to handle, wait till the tegus is awake and active.. They tend to sleep for a while and then come out to explore. The sleep period maybe to 2-3 of sleep so don't think there in hibernation. egg yolk is great for this time of year I would also go with mice as well. It is completely normal for them to disappear
for a while. No you wont find alot of info on the web because columbian tegus have such a bad rep the no one puts in the time to give them care or taming them..Hopefully if things continue to go according to plan I will create a website for Columbian tegus (in a few years) I will also breed them and continue to do my animal behavior analysis and understanding the nature of these great animals..

 

[TheDutchesss]

Hi Jrock, thanks so much for the info! Yes she definitely is a great pet, want to keep her healthy and happy. I feel lucky that I got her in a good, tame condition! Good luck with your project You're absolutely right she disappears for 2-3 days usually, lately it's been more so mild brumation sounds right. She popped out yesterday to eat and is back in her burrow. I'll keep offering food, I would like her to eat mice but her previous owner never did so she doesn't care for them, not sure if I can reintroduce to her? She only likes eggs & raw meat/poultry

 

[Walter1]

A frozen/thawed mouse with slit belly may change mind. If so, then can afterwards feed them without exposing entrails.

 

[Walter1]

Hi Jrock, thanks so much for the info! Yes she definitely is a great pet, want to keep her healthy and happy. I feel lucky that I got her in a good, tame condition! Good luck with your project You're absolutely right she disappears for 2-3 days usually, lately it's been more so mild brumation sounds right. She popped out yesterday to eat and is back in her burrow. I'll keep offering food, I would like her to eat mice but her previous owner never did so she doesn't care for them, not sure if I can reintroduce to her? She only likes eggs & raw meat/poultry

Told you JRock'd know!

 

[Jrock23]

I know you did LOL...

 

[Roadkill]

What's the difference between hibernation and brumation? Other than brumation was coined specifically to address reptiles, nothing concrete unless you wish to adhere to semantics. In general usage, to hibernate is to spend the winter in an inactive, sleep-like state and occurs in practically every phylum. For endothermic vertebrates it generally involves a seasonal reduction in body temperature to levels within a few degrees of ambient temperature. Hibernation occurs in bouts that last for periods of days, weeks, or even months and that are interspersed by short periods of arousal during which the animals spontaneously rewarm and may undertake moderate activity. The duration of these bouts varies from species to species as well as with ambient temperature and position in the winter season (early, mid, late) within species. So considering this, what makes this different from 'brumation'? About the only thing is when people get hung up on the "spontaneously rewarm". In a mammal, this means things like shivering and brown fat metabolism to generate heat. As most reptiles behaviourally thermoregulate, this would be about the equivalent of going out and basking. So, the only real difference is that in mammals the heat is derived endogenously, in most reptiles that heat is derived exogenously (albeit tegus can and do cross that line at times....). With this in mind, then, it should be clear that a tegu sleeping for several days and then coming out to bask, maybe grab a drink or a bite to eat, and then going back to sleep for a few days....quite accurately matches brumation/hibernation.

As for the Colombian tegus not hibernating/brumating, this is something that is commonly said....but for which there is no evidence to support. I cannot say I've ever come across an actual natural history observation that supports this claim. Considering that in Salvator merianae hibernation behaviour ranges from arousing and basking every day to sleeping for months on end, even if a Tupinambis teguixin were spotted out and about mid-'winter', this wouldn't be evidence of non-brumation. Furthermore, their relatively close relatedness to a whole host of other tegus that DO hibernate, it is quite likely that Colombian tegus have the ability to hibernate, but under ideal conditions won't. However, this being said, if your tegu is exhibiting hibernation-like behaviour and you are inclined to feed during activity bouts, be sure to provide access to normal, active season level temperatures so that they can at least digest their meals properly if they are so inclined to eat.

P.S. Jrock23, it would be great to see some more work done with the Colombians, but do yourself and everyone else a favour: ColUmbia are places in North America, ColOmbia is in South America (ie. It's not American english spelling, it's erroneous spelling)

 

[Jrock23]

Well you are entitle to your your opinion, as well as anyone one else. But i do alot of study on many different animals species. Not i may not be an expert but i am in school to get my degree in zoology and biology so i know the different between the two... I will help out anyone any way i can but as i stated before they do not go into hibernation.. Now if you can support your evidence of your information. by all means please send me the link and i will read it. but if its outdated don't even bother sending it.. Now i wouldn't correct my word thru my phone at the time of making that post. But i'm no damn idiot, i have been caring for lizards for quite some time. In school we are teached to documented everything when doing a study so i'm truly sorry if your way of knowledge is different from mine. So please don't patronize me!

 

[TheDutchesss]

Thank you guys, gonna try slitting a mouse belly that's a great idea hope she goes for it. I'll post results

 

[Roadkill]

You're right, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. I'm sorry that you feel that someone presenting an informed background on the material is "patronizing". Truthfully, I cannot claim to be as fully experienced in the field of reptilian brumation/hibernation as I'd like to be, I only did my Master's from a lab that frequently did hibernation studies on numerous animals (I've got a passing knowledge on hibernation, and am somewhat familiar with the debate over whether sleep, torpor, and hibernation are discreet physiological states or points on a continuum), and my field work was on hibernation in Salvator merianae (although I have worked with many of the other tegu species). You might be familiar with a couple of recent papers of mine:
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/2/1/e1500951
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00360-015-0928-2
While these are predominantly from a physiological view, I'm rather open to discussing my behaviour observations as well.

 

[TheDutchesss]

Thanks for the info roadkill, didn't even notice the typo (yes I know they are from Colombia lol) nice to hear from people with different field experience. Seems like the best thing I can do is keep her normal temp. set up and provide food every few days. I'm going to try to keep track of her rest/wake cycle, so happy to have such an interesting creature

 

[Roadkill]

TheDutchesss, I think what gets a lot of people is they try to pigeon-hole everything, it's black or white sort of thing. When it comes to reptilian hibernation, there is a WHOLE lot of grey area. I'm not saying Colombian tegus do hibernate, but neither am I saying they can't (I emphasize, there's a big difference between the words don't and can't). Going from the species I have the most experience with, Salvator merianae, everyone says they hibernate. Ok, this is not exactly debatable, except that I'd say a more accurate statement would be that they CAN hibernate. Just going from my own colony in Brasil, I had individuals who would go dormant for months at a time, pretty much sleeping throughout the entire hibernation period. I also had individuals who went dormant for about a week or two, but then spent the rest of "winter" coming out and basking each day. Now some people would tell me "that's not hibernation". Except that I was doing physiological studies, I could estimate their metabolism, and let me state for a fact that even though they were active, their metabolism was suppressed. So even what is "hibernation" in a tegu is not uniform. Then to make it even more interesting, some of my colleagues claim that there are populations further to the south of where I worked (so, in South America, this would be closer to the Antarctic, and therefore colder) that supposedly don't hibernate at all. So within a species we have evidence of not only hibernation having a broad range of expression, but a very good possibility that not all individuals routinely do so in the wild.
I've probably read the same sources of information that others have with regards to Colombians "not hibernating", and I used to regurgitate it too. Until I realised I cannot find a single actual first hand report of such. There are lots of things said in popular literature that have absolutely no backing behind them, they are just conjectured beliefs, and I am quite certain this is one of them. Don't get me wrong, I have little doubt that those populations of Tupinambis teguixin that are around and north of the Amazon likely don't hibernate, the seasonality is quite restricted in these areas. However, further to the south, where seasonality is more pronounced (but still not what we in North America would consider winter) it is quite likely that they do. Now, I have to admit, I did not have any T.teguixin where I was doing my studies, but I did have a couple of the other Tupinambis species....and they did hibernate.

 

[Walter1]

Oops. I misspelled Colombian, too.

 

[Roadkill]

many people do, Walter1, I don't think they realize there is a difference.

 

[Jrock23]

No I haven't read them articles, they seem to have them created this year.. I never said you wasn't experienced in any kind of way, but I myself am not expert either. But I have been caring for all kinds of lizards seen I was 18. There seems to always be a debated on lizards and what they do or don't do.. Most of the time people go off there experience but without scientific proof. I'm always done for any discussion.

 

[Jrock23]

Yes, there is much much information that is in the gray area, this is also why I do my studies on lizards and will be creating a better website that can help out and more information and questions and a care sheet

 

[Walter1]

Could be useful.

 

[Jrock23]

Walter, I truly think this could be very useful because as I stated before, there isn't any current (up to date) information out there...