HEEEEEEEEELPPPP!!!

[merlinsdrgn]

My beardie has been in her hide for 2 days now and really hasn't been eating much... Then just now her back legs started twitching & shaking... I put her in warm water to make her poop, which she did but her back legs are still shaking... I don't know if it has to do with recent changes, which are the following: 1. I moved her tank to the dining room by the window 2. Brought home a new baby male beardie & been introducing them little by little bc the 1st time they met she went at him to kill but has calmed down her demeanor towards him since but now he's the one who will charge at her after chillin in the same tank together for awhile... Anyone know what's happening to her??? Please help!!!

 

[Jefroka]

Is your lighting adequate, enough uvb? Giving calcium supplement?

Sounds like MBD.


...Jefroka

 

[merlinsdrgn]

I just checked out the bulb that I bought from the pet shop... It only provides UVA not UVB... I am so pissed off right now bc the guy that works there told my it did... I am so pissed off at myself now too bc I should've gone to purchase the bulb myself and done my research on the bulb itself... So now she hasn't been getting any UVB rays for a month now... What do I do now? I'm taking her to the vet tomorrow, but besides that, is this something that can be cured?

 

[rrcoolj]

If I remember correctly MBD can not be reversed but you can definatly help by giving him UVB. UVB bulbs usually come as flourescents but some come as incandescent bulbs. Just read the box it will say. I highly reccomend repti sun 10.0.

 

[merlinsdrgn]

I read this earlier post from DaveDragon and am wondering if MBD can be cured if caught early so I really hope so:

Early in our herp "career" we bought a Bearded Dragon from a woman we met at an Animal Planet Expo. She was a first time breeder. she had them all over the house in 10 gallon tanks with no UVB. The day after we brought him home he started having convulsions! We did some research and quickly started giving him a drop or two of Bone Aid every day and he quickly recovered. I emailed her, told her what happened and mention she better get some UVB for her little ones before it's too late.

Here is the link: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?t=541</a><!-- l -->

 

[Adam87]

thats the thing with pet shops i dont trust them unless i know the person they just want to make a profit, they tried telling me that the bulbs i was getting didnt have UVB and wanted me to buy a 50 dollar bulb instead but what he FAILED to realize is that the bulb i was getting Clearly in BIG yellow letters said UVB, but any way i wish u the best of luck with your dragon i have one myself

 

[Jefroka]

merlinsdrgn, please update your profile to include your location, & BTW, where are you located?

If its not too cold out bring your dragon outside and put her in direct sunlight, this will help.

If its too cold, correct the lighting & give the supplements, sounds like the Boneaid is a good product.

All reptiles that require uvb IMO should be brought out into the sun to bask throughout the yr, at least twice a week for 20 minutes or so minimum.

This is a great way to keep things at bay, no substitute for real sun.


...Jefroka

 

[merlinsdrgn]

@Adam: Yeah, I really don't trust these pet shop owners... some of them NOT all of them, only think about making a profit and thanks for the best wishes...

@Jefroka: I'm in Brooklyn, NY... Can't really take her out nowadays bc it is in the teens here and with the wind factor making it feel in the negatives... But as soon as it warms up, I will be taking my beardies to chill in the back yard and hopefully my tegu too! I've already purchased the UVB light & domes I need... I already placed an order for Bone Aid... Thanks for the advice! Would you believe I went back to the pet shop where I get my crickets from and he didn't even know what Bone Aid is? WTH?!?!?!

 

[cornking4]

I assure you that MBD can be reversed. I'm an apprentice of an exotic animal vet and we've seen beardies come in almost dead, deprived of uvb for six months or more, and we've saved them. Just ask for the following and it should get her twitch off within minutes:

1. Vitamin A/D intravenous
2. Calcium intravenous
3. Any other vitamin suspension that the vet feels is necessary, including (possibly) vitamin B suspension

If she gets those IV, the twitch should go away before you leave the clinic. She may also need to be given antibiotic and calcium gluconate orally, once daily for about 10 days. Be sure to ask for these medicines because some vets tend to not know much about reptile medicine. The vet should give you the breakdown of recovery protocol and stuff like that.

Just a little side note: Bone Aid is basically water, calcium, magnesium, cricket flavor, and preservative. If the vet gives you calcium gluconate, use it instead of the bone aid because it's stronger and can be dosed more accurately.

Good luck! Let us know how the visit goes!

 

[merlinsdrgn]

Just want update everyone on Sandy... I bought the UVB lightbulb she needed... However, I also moved her back to her original spot back in my living room and she has not twitched at all since that one time... I think maybe she was cold or something bc there was a cold draft coming in thru the window... She is coming out of her hide again and basking under her favorite spot again but only for short periods of time & is she is eating less thank usual... could this mean she's brumating? At 5 months old & a foot long, is she too young to do so?

 

[cornking4]

Glad to hear that you bought the UVB bulb, although I still believe she has MBD. The only documented cause of twitching or shivering in reptiles is the lack of calcium in the lymph leading to abundance sodium in the nervous system and the misfire of neurons, hence the shaking or twitch of muscles. Since reptiles are cold-blooded, they don't rely on body heat, and therefore wouldn't need to shiver to produce warmth. Her twitch was undoubtedly from metabolic bone disease.

As for her lethargy and what appears to be brumation, those are textbook signs of MBD, and she really should be seen by a herp vet. She's still relatively early on the metabolic path; past the point of dietary cure, but still early... usually when they go off feed, that's the sign that bones are so weak that fractures will occur within 4-5 weeks. The reason she's not eating is because the smooth muscle lining her stomach that aids in digestion are misfiring due to calcium lack in the nervous system, making the lizard unable to process food. Trust me, I see this more than twice a week in the vet clinic that I apprentice in... She needs to be seen by a vet at this point, and urgently, or else she could fracture a leg or arm and need $800+ surgery.

 

[merlinsdrgn]

Oh no don't get me wrong, I'm still taking her to the vet on Saturday... I already have a scheduled appointment with a herp vet...

 

[cornking4]

Ok good... let us know how it goes! It's usually a pretty routine visit for these cases; a couple of quick shots, a prescription, and some info, although you never know what underlying medical issues there could be. Were you able to find a good herp vet?

 

[merlinsdrgn]

I was able to find a vet center with a Dr. that concentrates on exotic pets that's close to me lol... I checked out a few places and none of them did or they referred me to an exotic animals only hospital in Manhattan of which if I don't like this vet I'm taking Sandy to then I will be taking her to there instead...

 

[cornking4]

Good, just make 100% sure they have a knowledge of reptile medicine. A bad vet may think it's an intestinal or renal issue and take $150 x-rays when simple shots should be given... Just be careful because ignorant mammal vets tend to victimize reptile owners. If I were you, i'd write down the injections that I listed and ask the vet about them, just in case they forget anything. Those vitamins absolutley must be given.

 

[merlinsdrgn]

Thanks for the advice cornking... I will take the list with me... I found him on a website with a national directory of herp vets that someone listed on a forum here... When I called to confirm the receptionist told me they have a vet that conentrates on exotic animals, including reptiles... so here's hoping he know wth he's talking bout

 

[mr.tegu]

you can can NOT reverse the damage of m.b.d.....but you can stop it from creating more damage... for example, if bones are deformed (kinked or curved) the bones will ALWAYS be that way. most stages of m.b.d is curable but in no way reversable. whatever damage is done is done..

 

[cornking4]

Correct, but twitch and muscle function does return. Also, if limbs have been stunted, they wil regain normal growth after calcium/phosphorous levels have returned to normal. But youre right in the sense that any bone deformities can't be cured medically, only surgically, but that is the only real aspect that doesn't return to normal after treatment.

 

[whoru]

u need to get u a uvb light asap a good brand is zoomed an make sure u are feed a calcium supplament....the shakingwill stop once u get the right lighting an supplaments going...an fyi never believe what ppl tell u read the box yourself..best of luck

 

[cornking4]

They already purchased a MV bulb, so she has all the uvb she needs. She's at the point now though that she needs IV calcium and vit A/D to get her nervous system boosted back to where it should be; that's happening Saturday apparently.