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Well, Bobby, I do have to agree you do have some very valid points. I wholeheartedly agree that most of the "reptile" supplements available for sale in petstores have absolutely lousy quality control and their claims are dubious at best. Reptile sprays, for one, are a complete joke. Most reptile skin has an exaggeratedly thick stratum corneum that inhibits any molecular substance passing through it. Proper vitamins for animals aren't cheap (or for humans, for that matter). Go to a veterinarian and see what they sell their vitamins for, compare it to the petshops. There's a reason for the price difference, and it isn't because the vet is trying to get rich on overinflated priced vitamins. It's because those vitamins ARE coming from sources where quality is controlled and contents are guaranteed.

That being said, a lot of your arguments that you have presented, Bobby, are contradictory and this is a big reason why what you are saying is hard to swallow.

and yet earlier one of your posts had

a bit of a discrepancy, no?

You've often touted the completely safe benefits of UV bulbs throughout this discussion and others, and yet one of the sources you copied stated

But perhaps the best case of contradictory arguments are THIS current posting, and THIS posting
http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1835
both of which you started on the exact same day. Do you think about your posts before you actually put them up? Here you are saying "no, do not use Vitamin D supplementation, especially as we don't know what amount an overdose is in a tegu" and then you go on in the other post to say "yes, this is a great supplement because it has Vit.D at greater concentrations than most other available sources!"

I'll back you up on the "most pet store vitamins are crap" account, but not on the "don't use vit.D at all" argument. As I've stated, vit.D is essential for your animal's health, whether it is naturally derived or supplemented. You DON'T want to overdose it, but if you have an indoor animal, are not sure of its UV exposure, then some Vit.D3 supplementation would be advised. Also in agreement with what you have to say, nothing beats a good, balanced diet and proper UV exposure. Outdoor tegus have so many more benefits available to them than indoor kept tegus, and if properly fed, supplementation is likely risky.

However, a few other points:

First off, I'm assuming you've completely forgotten about the diurnal geckos. Secondly, even most nocturnal geckos HAVE been shown to bask. It's been shown several times that assuming nocturnal species don't bask is erroneous. Thirdly, it has also been shown in many reptiles that although they may not bask in direct sunlight, that even when living under the canopy of dense foliage, enough UVB gets scattered to reach and impact the health of particularly delicate skinned reptiles such as geckos.

Agreed, 100%. That goes, in my opinion, for overly strong UV bulbs as well. Folks, do yourself a favour and buy good vitamins from your veterinarian. Also make sure your tegu gets good UVB exposure (caveat: good does NOT mean excessive) and a varied, balanced diet.

<blockquote data-quote="tupinambis" data-source="post: 24666" data-attributes="member: 57">Well, Bobby, I do have to agree you do have some very valid points.&nbsp; I wholeheartedly agree that most of the &quot;reptile&quot; supplements available for sale in petstores have absolutely lousy quality control and their claims are dubious at best.&nbsp; Reptile sprays, for one, are a complete joke.&nbsp; Most reptile skin has an exaggeratedly thick stratum corneum that inhibits any molecular substance passing through it.&nbsp; Proper vitamins for animals aren't cheap (or for humans, for that matter).&nbsp; Go to a veterinarian and see what they sell their vitamins for, compare it to the petshops.&nbsp; There's a reason for the price difference, and it isn't because the vet is trying to get rich on overinflated priced vitamins.&nbsp; It's because those vitamins ARE coming from sources where quality is controlled and contents are guaranteed.That being said, a lot of your arguments that you have presented, Bobby, are contradictory and this is a big reason why what you are saying is hard to swallow.&nbsp;and yet earlier one of your posts hada bit of a discrepancy, no?You've often touted the completely safe benefits of UV bulbs throughout this discussion and others, and yet one of the sources you copied stated But perhaps the best case of contradictory arguments are THIS current posting, and THIS posting<a href="http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1835" target="_blank">http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1835</a>both of which you started on the exact same day.&nbsp; Do you think about your posts before you actually put them up?&nbsp; Here you are saying &quot;no, do not use Vitamin D supplementation, especially as we don't know what amount an overdose is in a tegu&quot; and then you go on in the other post to say &quot;yes, this is a great supplement because it has Vit.D&nbsp; at greater concentrations than most other available sources!&quot;I'll back you up on the &quot;most pet store vitamins are crap&quot; account, but not on the &quot;don't use vit.D at all&quot; argument.&nbsp; As I've stated, vit.D is essential for your animal's health, whether it is naturally derived or supplemented.&nbsp; You DON'T want to overdose it, but if you have an indoor animal, are not sure of its UV exposure, then some Vit.D3 supplementation would be advised.&nbsp; Also in agreement with what you have to say, nothing beats a good, balanced diet and proper UV exposure.&nbsp; Outdoor tegus have so many more benefits available to them than indoor kept tegus, and if properly fed, supplementation is likely risky.However, a few other points:First off, I'm assuming you've completely forgotten about the diurnal geckos.&nbsp; Secondly, even most nocturnal geckos HAVE been shown to bask.&nbsp; It's been shown several times that assuming nocturnal species don't bask is erroneous.&nbsp; Thirdly, it has also been shown in many reptiles that although they may not bask in direct sunlight, that even when living under the canopy of dense foliage, enough UVB gets scattered to reach and impact the health of particularly delicate skinned reptiles such as geckos.&nbsp; Agreed, 100%.&nbsp; That goes, in my opinion, for overly strong UV bulbs as well.&nbsp; Folks, do yourself a favour and buy good vitamins from your veterinarian.&nbsp; Also make sure your tegu gets good UVB&nbsp; exposure (caveat: good does NOT mean excessive) and a varied, balanced diet.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tupinambis, post: 24666, member: 57"] Well, Bobby, I do have to agree you do have some very valid points. I wholeheartedly agree that most of the "reptile" supplements available for sale in petstores have absolutely lousy quality control and their claims are dubious at best. Reptile sprays, for one, are a complete joke. Most reptile skin has an exaggeratedly thick stratum corneum that inhibits any molecular substance passing through it. Proper vitamins for animals aren't cheap (or for humans, for that matter). Go to a veterinarian and see what they sell their vitamins for, compare it to the petshops. There's a reason for the price difference, and it isn't because the vet is trying to get rich on overinflated priced vitamins. It's because those vitamins ARE coming from sources where quality is controlled and contents are guaranteed. That being said, a lot of your arguments that you have presented, Bobby, are contradictory and this is a big reason why what you are saying is hard to swallow. and yet earlier one of your posts had a bit of a discrepancy, no? You've often touted the completely safe benefits of UV bulbs throughout this discussion and others, and yet one of the sources you copied stated But perhaps the best case of contradictory arguments are THIS current posting, and THIS posting [url]http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1835[/url] both of which you started on the exact same day. Do you think about your posts before you actually put them up? Here you are saying "no, do not use Vitamin D supplementation, especially as we don't know what amount an overdose is in a tegu" and then you go on in the other post to say "yes, this is a great supplement because it has Vit.D at greater concentrations than most other available sources!" I'll back you up on the "most pet store vitamins are crap" account, but not on the "don't use vit.D at all" argument. As I've stated, vit.D is essential for your animal's health, whether it is naturally derived or supplemented. You DON'T want to overdose it, but if you have an indoor animal, are not sure of its UV exposure, then some Vit.D3 supplementation would be advised. Also in agreement with what you have to say, nothing beats a good, balanced diet and proper UV exposure. Outdoor tegus have so many more benefits available to them than indoor kept tegus, and if properly fed, supplementation is likely risky. However, a few other points: First off, I'm assuming you've completely forgotten about the diurnal geckos. Secondly, even most nocturnal geckos HAVE been shown to bask. It's been shown several times that assuming nocturnal species don't bask is erroneous. Thirdly, it has also been shown in many reptiles that although they may not bask in direct sunlight, that even when living under the canopy of dense foliage, enough UVB gets scattered to reach and impact the health of particularly delicate skinned reptiles such as geckos. Agreed, 100%. That goes, in my opinion, for overly strong UV bulbs as well. Folks, do yourself a favour and buy good vitamins from your veterinarian. Also make sure your tegu gets good UVB exposure (caveat: good does NOT mean excessive) and a varied, balanced diet. [/QUOTE]

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