"A Life of Pain, for Someone's Gain"

[Kazzy]

It's not only about the fact that it hurts them to bask, but most animals LIKE to bask. They love it. Bearded dragons, for instance, live happier lives if they are kept in bright conditions.

Right there with you Bobby, but like others have said...the animals that don't need/want to bask are fine in my opinion. Like my albino leopard gecko. Even normal leopard geckos like it dark, so he's fine how he is.

 

[mr.tegu]

sure,sure,sure, i agree with you bobby and friends, the sad truth is a lot of people want what others dont have and you get the strange animals even hair less rats and cats and things like that, this is what happens when man trys to play god....we screw things up!!

 

[VARNYARD]

sure,sure,sure, i agree with you bobby and friends, the sad truth is a lot of people want what others dont have and you get the strange animals even hair less rats and cats and things like that, this is what happens when man trys to play god....we screw things up!!

Well it is true, most of them are the results of breeding siblings. All of these morph reptiles, most are so inbred it is unreal. They inbreed more and more to pull out genes that would never happen in nature. Sad part is they also get traits that are bad as well, but they don't want to talk about them.

 

[mr.tegu]

why isnt this a crime?
can we do anything about it other then just not buying such animals/reptiles?

 

[VARNYARD]

why isnt this a crime?
can we do anything about it other then just not buying such animals/reptiles?

It is most of the reptile world, ball pythons, boas, corns, monitors, tegus, geckos, just about all of them. The only way to get pure stuff is to get imports, or buy from a breeder that is against inbreeding. Just look at all of the high dollar morphs out there, 99% are a result of bad inbreeding.

 

[JohnMatthew]

That's why I like dominate and co-dominate morphs. You can outbreed like crazy.

 

[VARNYARD]

That's why I like dominate and co-dominate morphs. You can outbreed like crazy.

It is true with some Co-doms, but breeding them together produce supers, but not with Doms, most Doms are created by breeding animals to hit a recessive trait, then breed the recessive traits together to produce different ones, like all the oddball crap found in many species found in the market. Also it depends, some of the animals we have in our market came from a handful of animals. Some of the ones that we have, we were only allowed to have a few animals. And they have a very limited gene pool, thus inbreeding more and more every time they are bred.

 

[JohnMatthew]

It's true but I want a pure white snake gad nabbit! They certainly all started from the same snake imo, but sometimes you just have to hope in the reputation of some breeders and their word that they've been outbreeding so long and can only continue to outbreed and get a better gene pool. Much more hope in dom/co-dom than their is in recessive, bless their souls.

By the way, HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[JohnMatthew]

Everybody has to draw their own lines as far as what they accept in the reptile industry. I agree 100% that most people are out to make a quick buck and don't give a darn about the animals and it makes me very sad. I also have faith in a few good breeders out there to do the right thing.

 

[Tux]

there is something we can do!! don't buy these things!!! good buy market good buy cash. then good bye :cen holes We cannot support these types of animal breeders if we don't like what they are doing

Missed my point, I said something we can do, I'm already not buying them, the problem is not people such as ourselves who have an understanding of genetics and the downfall of such breeding. I was saying I wish their was something us who understand these things could do to stop them. Yes we try to educate and we aren't the type to buy the animal but I really wish we could do something to literally stop them directly from breeding what they do.

As for co-doms and outcrossing, it is possible but most whom create these morphs are doing so for the $ it is often their main source of income, these ppl are not spacing things out by 5 or 6 gens, they want the quick result not the 5-10 year result. Which is why we see the issues with translucent BDs and the wide spread of adeno...bad breeding practices motivated by $.

 

[John_E_Dove]

The problem with pushing for laws and regulations is that once the government gets involved they get more and more involved even when their regulation is not needed.
Also government involvement does not always mean anything will change. Just look at how many openly flagrant violations of 21 CFR 1240.62 there are leading to the death of thousands of turtles every year.

I donÃ?¢ââ??‰â??¢t have an answer on how to stop the breeders and sellers of deformed animals beyond educating the public but I do know government intervention/interference is not the answer.

 

[ihatehumans]

I was hoping to start a thread like this but oh well..........
I hate people who will do horrible things to other living creatures to make big money. Unfortunatly, their is nothing much we can do about that. Sure we can abolish the market for unusual animals, but people do things like use electricity , drive cars, and chop down rainforests for lumbar (I feel guilty about going on the computer already). It is natural for creatures to make others go extinct, but what humans are doing isn't. destroying is a big cause of declining species. Mother nature didn't want whole forests to get wiped out. What kind of abomination are we? All of this is human, but that realy doesn't make it right! Heres the good news: hopefuly humans will wipe themselves out before they destroy earth (fat chance). Quote from Albert Einstein:
"I don't know what weapons world war three and four will be fought with, but i know world war five will be fought with sticks and stones."

 

[Tux]

I donÃ?¢ââ??‰â??¢t have an answer on how to stop the breeders and sellers of deformed animals beyond educating the public but I do know government intervention/interference is not the answer.

I agree John, the more the govt is involved the more hoops us people properly caring for our animals will need to jump through and the more they will have their hands in our pockets. theirs really not much we can do but lead by example, I don't have another solution, it is just me wishing their was even more we could do.

 

[jacksgrapes]

is the animal in this video a large reason for making this post?
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rxhuuIcnTA&feature=channel_page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rxhuuIc ... annel_page</a><!-- m -->

Btw, i'm just getting back into reptiles and i've been reading these forums for a while and i've certainly been convinced to never look into any sort of albino animal (or any color morph)

 

[Red Earth Exotics]

but people do things like use electricity , drive cars, and chop down rainforests for lumbar (I feel guilty about going on the computer already)

Seriously? Using electricity? Driving cars and harvesting lumber? Feeling guilty about using a computer? :crazy Why don't we all just strip down naked and live in the forest with the animals, eating bugs and tree roots. Sounds so much better than using that terrible thing called electricity for lights and heat. I'm all about not doing terrible things to animals and the earth but there gets to a point where it starts getting ridiculous. "ihatehumans"? Come on. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, so just had to make sure I shared mine too.

 

[Tux]

Red Earth Exotics I don't like to use more than I need to though the electricity I use is hydro so it is much more green than the US coal produced electricity, I can get why someone would feel guilty for using much more than needed but I couldn't understand feeling guilty for the little bit a computer uses when compared to other electric devices. Lumber is a renewable resource I have 0 issues there, I only drive to places which are too far to walk so no guilt there either, it's all about common sense. The UK has green electricity tariff s, it would be nice to see the same in the US. I'm in no way a treehugger but the southwest usa is perfect for solar panels, if a way could be found to make it cost effective to produce the mirrors and storage facilities for concentrated solar I'd be moving to the southwest and using it. That combined with geothermal and better battery technology is the future IMO, we could get into the hydrogen cell talk but to me that seems a pain. I guess the point is their are better options than the 1s currently being most popular (even nuclear power is decent) without sacrificing quality of life but my post is way beyond the scope of this thread

 

[VARNYARD]

ihatehumans, is no longer with us, so he cant answer your questions.

 

[Red Earth Exotics]

Red Earth Exotics I don't like to use more than I need to though the electricity I use is hydro so it is much more green than the US coal produced electricity, I can get why someone would feel guilty for using much more than needed but I couldn't understand feeling guilty for the little bit a computer uses when compared to other electric devices. Lumber is a renewable resource I have 0 issues there, I only drive to places which are too far to walk so no guilt there either, it's all about common sense. The UK has green electricity tariff s, it would be nice to see the same in the US. I'm in no way a treehugger but the southwest usa is perfect for solar panels, if a way could be found to make it cost effective to produce the mirrors and storage facilities for concentrated solar I'd be moving to the southwest and using it. That combined with geothermal and better battery technology is the future IMO, we could get into the hydrogen cell talk but to me that seems a pain. I guess the point is their are better options than the 1s currently being most popular (even nuclear power is decent) without sacrificing quality of life but my post is way beyond the scope of this thread

yeah, i got way off the original topic too. interesting stuff to debate though. i do feel real bad for that tegu with MBD. i would like to know the name of the breeder that said the D3 could be substituted so I could steer people away from them. i can't stand liars.

 

[homer]

bobby- i didnt know albino tegus were deformed. My local reptile store has many tegus one of which is albino male of 3-4 years old and seems totally normal?

 

[Harveysherps]

The main issue with Albino Tegus are the eyes. Several other factors fall into the Albino gene. It is in fact a mutation. So you can look at it as defective. The are many Albino lizards they seem to do well in captivity. But the obsene prices being charged for the animals is what gets me. But just like Tom Crutchfield said himself. It's about the money. I myself think the albinos are cool not matter what species. But the prices they bring are way too much to suit me.I have Albino Boas. Somethings about them I like but some things I don't like.I have them up for sale now. Because I'm changing my ideas on some things. The Albino gene in my opinion has ruined the hobby for the small time guy with his normal stuff. But they will phase out eventually in my opinion. If the government doesn't finish us off first anyway.