Advice on MBD needed please....

[Izzysmummies]

Hi everyone. We rehomed Izzy a 2 year old B&w about 5 months ago. She was barely eating at the start and although all our temps and husbandry is as it should be she was eating less and less. So a trip to the vets and an X-ray later she has been diagnosed with MBD. She was given some antibiotics, liquid calcium and some high strength calcium food powder and three weeks later she has put on 7ounces....
However she really isn't taking the syringe feeding anymore, and is still not interested in any food....we've tried egg, Turkey mince, fruit, rat pups, chicks, insects....nothing. Any help or advice is gratefully received as the vet says if she doesn't start eating or keeps refusing the calcium then a permanent feeding tube may need to be fitted which sounds dreadful. She is such a lovely placid girl but is getting more and more distressed with the syringe feeding
Thanks in advance

 

[Walter1]

Does this mean that the trip to the vet was about one month ago?
Does she have a hot spot of about 115 F and a cooler spot gradient to other end of cage in the mid-upper 70s?
Does she get sufficient UVB?
Does your vet specialize in exotics?
Just need to ask for certainty.
Please post an up to date picture that includes hips, back legs, and tail.

Hope to help.

 

[Izzysmummies]

View attachment 9913 View attachment 9914 Yes the first vet trip was a month ago followed by a check up last week. Her temps range from 109 in the hot end with a surface temp on her Flint basking point of slightly higher to aroun 97 in the cool end. I gauge it with 2 thermometers and a heat gun thermometer.She has a 30 watt 10% uvb bulb which was new when we got her and the vet does specialise in reptiles too. Excuse the red bandage. That was from her blood test last month. View attachment 9913View attachment 9914

 

[Walter1]

OK, here's my thought. could be that she's heat stressed. She must have a gradient from what is a good high to mid-upper 70s. they have to be able to cool off, which is where her hide box should be. Constant heat is a stress. Apart from that, here back legs, hips, and tail look full, or at least not skinny. That is good.

 

[Izzysmummies]

Ok thanks for that I'll have a play around with the temps see if that has any effect on things

 

[Walter1]

Best of luck. Keep updated please.

 

[Roadkill]

I'm sorry if this is going to sound pedantic, please bear with me.

First - Temperatures: To this day I marvel at how people go about their animal husbandry with respect to exotics. Don't get me wrong, there's a very fundamental reason why everyone tells everyone else a basking temp of X and a cooler temp elsewhere of Y, it helps people pre-set enclosures and is a relatively easy way to convey information....but it tends to stunt people's thinking. Let me ask you, what's more important, the body temperature of your tegu, or the temperature of the rock in the back corner? That's right, clearly it's the rock that is more important.....that is what you are saying when what you are measuring is the animal's environment and nothing else. Measuring the animal's environment doesn't tell you much other than these are the temperatures available to the animal. What's really important is measuring the animal's temperature, that will tell you what it is actually going through. Most of your medium to large sized lizards try to regulate their active body temperatures around the same as that of a mammal, so you should be seeing them in a 33-37 degrees Celsius temperature range. If your tegu has access to higher temperatures, but isn't able to get its body temperature up, that tells you there's something amiss. Could be a health issue, could be that it finds the basking source too intense, could be a sign you have a faulty bulb that is emitting UVC. Thing is, if all you are measuring is the basking spot and a cool zone, it sure doesn't tell you much.

Second - MBD: Hobbyists through a lack of experience seem to think that MBD is a specific illness. It isn't, it's an "umbrella" term that encompasses a fairly broad range of diseases that impact the bones. Somewhere in the range of 90-99% of captive reptile MBD is more accurately called NSHP - Nutritional Secondary HyperParathyroidism, where because of either a lack of proper nutrient levels in the diet, or a lack of appropriate UVB exposure, calcium physiology is challenged, the parathyroid tries to compensate, and results in deteriorating health. However, this is where I stress to hobbyists to be more familiar with the physiological pathways of calcium, UVB, and vitamin D3. In the proper functioning calcium/vitamin D3 metabolic pathway, there are specific steps that take place in the intestines, the skin, the kidneys, and the liver. Disease associated with any one of these organs can affect, even halt these processes, and therefore result in MBD even when proper nutrition is offered. Likewise, vitamin D3 doesn't just float about loosely in the blood stream, it is carried by an accessory protein, of which its function is poorly understood (at least from what I've been able to uncover so far). These other factors account for why MBD is not always related to calcium intake/UVB exposure, and why hobbyists need to keep an eye on other issues than just diet. That being said, your tegu clearly has a nutrient intake issue, which isn't going to be readily rectified just by offering the appropriate food. There's a reason why calcium regulation is so important - nearly every physiological process somehow utilizes calcium. If your tegu is already calcium deficient, this could impact peristalsis of the gut/intestines (muscle contraction requires calcium) and active nutrient uptake (many of these processes also require calcium), thereby inhibiting proper nutrient uptake. Liquid calcium supplements have been shown to have a greater uptake than powdered supplements, so try to focus on these until the tegu's health is better.

 

[Walter1]

Hey Roadkill- You're not pedantic. You're also right. Must have context behind statements of hot end and cool end. Somehow, somewhere in the cage the lizard must be able to heat its body sufficient for proper metabolic functions and then be able to get away from it.

Somewhat I hope related to your MBD info is watching the flood of NSHP and MBD-impaired Green Iguanas that followed as soon as they were mass-produced and sold at throwaway prices. That meant easy access to a lizard for which little homework continues to be done in advance of pruchase.Gets big fast and can be aggressive aside, the rampant ingnorance in connection between UVB and correct diet and importance of each continues to be the ruination of many a Green Iguana. Maybe if kept expensive more effort would go into homework with fewer such animals. this si the case with Argies. Even at high prices there'll always be NHSP/MBD-impaired ones, but surely less than what will happen if prices are not stable.