Eggs and lots of them!!!

[TegusRawsome80]

Not to be that guy, but why is everyone suddenly deciding to hybridize their tegus? If you have a blue, why not just breed it to a blue? The bloodlines will all get confused and in 10 or 12 year no one will have any idea of what is pure or not. Pure blues and extremes are way more valuable than those types crossed with B&Ws too. Also, I may be confused but the OP is keeping the animals free roaming around his house and living under the couch and they bred? That's impressive that they bred. Do you provide heat for them or? Just confused about the situation.

 

[laurarfl]

Extremes aren't a separate species.

 

[james.w]

Extremes aren't a separate species.

Neither are blues.

 

[TegusRawsome80]

I agree about extreme's but as long as we're calling them something different then they are considered something different. And you have no idea about blues, if so I'd love for you to prove it with some genetic studies done by qualified researchers on a varied number of specimens. Let's say you're right for arguments sake, how about reds and blues? Reds and black and whites? Why hybridize that's my question

 

[james.w]

To "create" something new, unique. It is about us, the keepers as to why most hybrids are created.

As far as blues go, they are currently the same species and until they are reclassified, they will be the same species.

 

[TegusRawsome80]

Yeah, I just find it interesting that people are okay with mixing up bloodlines of animals that are beautiful when they are kept pure.

 

[got10]

you can at time strengthen a blood line by out crossing the line bred animals . . As in breeding dogs if you breed a dog and out cross it to another breed to improve or eliminate a genetic flaw. Three generations it is considered a " pure bred dog" . I didn't make it up . You can check for yourselves to see the info. It is a practice that was used to get short tailed boxers by breeding them with of all dogs a welsh corgi due to their naturally occurring lack of tail.Three generations later is all it takes . And that is the UKc AND the AKC rulings. The same goes for horses.
I wish their where more blues out there .but, they are all from one set of eggs from what has been said in this forum . ( which is very biased against blues) . I would breed my female blue with a b/w to strengthen the bloodline if I thought it would help down the road.I would not do it to be 'COOL " . i'm too damn old for that . I would only do it as I said to improve the bloodline of the alleged flaws which have not seen on blues any more than i do in any of the tegu s out there

 

[TegusRawsome80]

Yeah, I'm not denying that I just don't think that's the reason most people are doing it. Anyways is this guy keeping the tegus free roaming his house?

 

[naturboy87]

well to sum extent they do all live in the house but i do have a pen area in the corner of the house w a small sokeing pond w a 250 on it and 2 250 heat lamps for 110 heat . in the basking area . and 2 dens under 2 night stands with heat pads for added heat but i never let the temp drop below 65 in the house. And yes roxy (b&w)hibornated under the couch for 3 1/2 munths and she is big ass hell and full of eggs . Also have a large outdoor pen with dens and pond and bulding one of my shopes in to a tegu barn so i have 2 6x15 ft pens dun in it and 4 to go 6 all together their to . with two in the house 3 out side and i take sumone with me to work almost every day . so moor like 6 soon to be 8 diferent pens and i let then free rome around the yard a lot even go back in the house wen their dun being out side . so in the winter wen it is cold and their slow yes they all live inside w me free romeing but i dont see them much ass they sleep most of the winter . but with spring and summer i put and leave them out side in their pens almost all the time . PS sarry all for my lil fit!!
[attachment=3995][attachment=3996]

 

[Draco D Tegu]

Actually......for a dog breed to be legitimately recognized you must first: create a breed standard and disqualifiers then you must prove through successive generations of litters that all progeny breed true. This requires more than "3" litters. Most AKC recognized breeds had to go through at least 20 generations before they became recognized. It can take upwards of 50 years of selective breeding and breeding true to get a dog breed recognized by kennel clubs. Border collies have been around for many years, but only RECENTLY gained admission into the AKC open stud books. Why? Because although they were "purebred", there was no breed standard for phenotypic traits. In fact many of us BC fans abhor the AKC because of the establishment of a show standard (breeding for conformation alone tends to diminish working ability).

Case in point, you cannot breed too "labradoodles" together and get labradoodles. You will get a 50 /50 mix of dogs that look either like a poodle or a lab. Same with most "designer breeds" such as puggles, jugs, cockapoos etc.

You have to have animals that breed true to get a new "breed". And it has to be reproducible over MANY generations, not just a few.


This is from the Foundation Stock Service (AKC):

"This information is then presented to the AKC Executive Committee for a decision to allow or deny the request. The second step of entry into the Miscellaneous Class usually takes several years. By the time a breed is ready for the Miscellaneous Class, it should have established three major milestones. (1) A national breed club with a minimum of 100 active household members located in at least 20 states in the United States. (2) A list of the current officers and members, the current breed standard and the club’s constitution and by-laws. (3) A minimum of 300 to 400 dogs, with complete 3-generation pedigrees in this country.
Breed observations are then scheduled by AKC Executive Field Staff. When these criteria have been met, the results are presented to the Board of Directors of the American Kennel Club for approval into the Miscellaneous Class. Breeds usually remain in the Miscellaneous Class for one to three years, sometimes longer. At the end of the first year there is another evaluation which requires that the national breed club update information about club matters, officers, directors, etc. to the AKC. When all the criteria have been met, the updated information is presented to the Board of Directors of The American Kennel Club for the final decision which moves the breed from the Miscellaneous Class to regular breed status and competition. "

Three generation pedigrees after determination of breeding true. You can't have a lab as a sire, poodle as dam and then register the next two litters.

Not being argumentative, just clearing up a misnomer about one of my other passions.

NatureBoy....I see no wrong with you letting your tegus free roam, but I do see lots of fire hazards and safety hazrds to your tegus in those pics.....

 

[laurarfl]

I guess we have something else in common. I have a working line Aussie. AKC Aussies and BC look so boxy! (Sorry, I love Aussies)

 

[got10]

Actually......for a dog breed to be legitimately recognized you must first: create a breed standard and disqualifiers then you must prove through successive generations of litters that all progeny breed true. This requires more than "3" litters. Most AKC recognized breeds had to go through at least 20 generations before they became recognized. It can take upwards of 50 years of selective breeding and breeding true to get a dog breed recognized by kennel clubs. Border collies have been around for many years, but only RECENTLY gained admission into the AKC open stud books. Why? Because although they were "purebred", there was no breed standard for phenotypic traits. In fact many of us BC fans abhor the AKC because of the establishment of a show standard (breeding for conformation alone tends to diminish working ability).

Case in point, you cannot breed too "labradoodles" together and get labradoodles. You will get a 50 /50 mix of dogs that look either like a poodle or a lab. Same with most "designer breeds" such as puggles, jugs, cockapoos etc.

You have to have animals that breed true to get a new "breed". And it has to be reproducible over MANY generations, not just a few.


This is from the Foundation Stock Service (AKC):

"This information is then presented to the AKC Executive Committee for a decision to allow or deny the request. The second step of entry into the Miscellaneous Class usually takes several years. By the time a breed is ready for the Miscellaneous Class, it should have established three major milestones. (1) A national breed club with a minimum of 100 active household members located in at least 20 states in the United States. (2) A list of the current officers and members, the current breed standard and the club’s constitution and by-laws. (3) A minimum of 300 to 400 dogs, with complete 3-generation pedigrees in this country.
Breed observations are then scheduled by AKC Executive Field Staff. When these criteria have been met, the results are presented to the Board of Directors of the American Kennel Club for approval into the Miscellaneous Class. Breeds usually remain in the Miscellaneous Class for one to three years, sometimes longer. At the end of the first year there is another evaluation which requires that the national breed club update information about club matters, officers, directors, etc. to the AKC. When all the criteria have been met, the updated information is presented to the Board of Directors of The American Kennel Club for the final decision which moves the breed from the Miscellaneous Class to regular breed status and competition. "

Three generation pedigrees after determination of breeding true. You can't have a lab as a sire, poodle as dam and then register the next two litters.

Not being argumentative, just clearing up a misnomer about one of my other passions.

NatureBoy....I see no wrong with you letting your tegus free roam, but I do see lots of fire hazards and safety hazrds to your tegus in those pics.....

The rules you have quoted are true for foundation stock . Not line strengthening . But I respect t he fact that you actually look into and took time to do the research needed to find information.

 

[Draco D Tegu]

Actually......for a dog breed to be legitimately recognized you must first: create a breed standard and disqualifiers then you must prove through successive generations of litters that all progeny breed true. This requires more than "3" litters. Most AKC recognized breeds had to go through at least 20 generations before they became recognized. It can take upwards of 50 years of selective breeding and breeding true to get a dog breed recognized by kennel clubs. Border collies have been around for many years, but only RECENTLY gained admission into the AKC open stud books. Why? Because although they were "purebred", there was no breed standard for phenotypic traits. In fact many of us BC fans abhor the AKC because of the establishment of a show standard (breeding for conformation alone tends to diminish working ability).

Case in point, you cannot breed too "labradoodles" together and get labradoodles. You will get a 50 /50 mix of dogs that look either like a poodle or a lab. Same with most "designer breeds" such as puggles, jugs, cockapoos etc.

You have to have animals that breed true to get a new "breed". And it has to be reproducible over MANY generations, not just a few.


This is from the Foundation Stock Service (AKC):

"This information is then presented to the AKC Executive Committee for a decision to allow or deny the request. The second step of entry into the Miscellaneous Class usually takes several years. By the time a breed is ready for the Miscellaneous Class, it should have established three major milestones. (1) A national breed club with a minimum of 100 active household members located in at least 20 states in the United States. (2) A list of the current officers and members, the current breed standard and the club’s constitution and by-laws. (3) A minimum of 300 to 400 dogs, with complete 3-generation pedigrees in this country.
Breed observations are then scheduled by AKC Executive Field Staff. When these criteria have been met, the results are presented to the Board of Directors of the American Kennel Club for approval into the Miscellaneous Class. Breeds usually remain in the Miscellaneous Class for one to three years, sometimes longer. At the end of the first year there is another evaluation which requires that the national breed club update information about club matters, officers, directors, etc. to the AKC. When all the criteria have been met, the updated information is presented to the Board of Directors of The American Kennel Club for the final decision which moves the breed from the Miscellaneous Class to regular breed status and competition. "

Three generation pedigrees after determination of breeding true. You can't have a lab as a sire, poodle as dam and then register the next two litters.

Not being argumentative, just clearing up a misnomer about one of my other passions.

NatureBoy....I see no wrong with you letting your tegus free roam, but I do see lots of fire hazards and safety hazrds to your tegus in those pics.....

The rules you have quoted are true for foundation stock . Not line strengthening . But I respect t he fact that you actually look into and took time to do the research needed to find information.

Thank you but I was merely commenting on the comment about it only taking three generations to make something a new breed.

Line strengthening is another beast entirely and requires an already established line / breed to take effect....and that is what the open stud book is for (it allows you to bring stock in to your lines, which is why for a while the bearded collie was bred into the border collie line in the UK).

@ Laura, I agree. I am not a fan of the "conformation" collies. The true BC has a very typey LEAN body and long lanky legs with slightly cow hocked back legs, not the squared off head and fluffy coat and short little legs they're breeding for now. Two of my BC's are working lines (although only one has experience on sheep), the other is an agility dog. She was bred to be small and fast for the poles......and MAN that dog can FLY! Although I think Aussies are a georgeous dog, they don't have the drive that my BC's do, which is what attracts me to the breed. LOL I also find Aussies to be a little more introverted than a BC....which some BC's can be VERY stuck up LOL!

 

[slideaboot]

I cleaned up this post so I could put it back on the forum. If you felt something was deleted that was relevant, feel free to re-post.

No swearing please.

James-

I think that if anything, the posts with Naturboy87's terrible spelling of cuss words, both his own posts and when I quoted him (I never cussed at him, by the way) should have been edited--not deleted. But, you guys are the moderators and god knows I'm used to having my posts deleted on this forum when I post stuff that's controversial or that others don't like, regardless of whether it's relevant and makes a solid point. Again, I'm NOT blaming you on this--it's just how this forum works (see: threads about Bobby and his dissatisfied clients and the like).

I DO apologize for quoting Naturboy's cuss words in my posts, but I find it odd that the language ONLY became a problem AFTER I quoted him while defending myself.

I would like to go on record by saying that Naturboy was completely wrong, disrespectful, and out of line by discrediting me and the condition of the two tegus I sold him--which, in my opinion, is why he bailed as soon as I came out of the woodwork to tell him (and the forum) so. Not only did he have current pictures of the tegus before he bought them, he and his girlfriend talked about how beautiful they were AFTER they received them--never ONCE making mention of any health or stuck-shed issues. Further, he PROUDLY posted pictures of both of them and received compliments on both--which he gladly accepted.

Aesop and Francis were very well cared for and healthy tegus--if they weren't, I assure you they wouldn't have produced eggs at an age of one and a half years old. I kept this forum abreast of Aesop's RIDICULOUS growth throughout his lifetime--clearly, I was doing something right. Yes, he put them together, but the fact that they bred literally WEEKS after getting them from me should speak VOLUMES about their conditions. I'm not trying to take credit for them breeding--Naturboy did that--but he is not some magical tegu-whisperer who nurtured sickly tegus back to health and manifested some tegu-breeding miracle. Nor does he have ANY room to discredit me or the condition of the tegus.

I took the best care of those tegus that just about anybody on this forum could've--yes, they had some stuck shed, and I admitted that because of my packing and moving an entire house across the country that they hadn't been soaked as regularly as they had been in the past.

But, there's no way I'm going to stand by and let that guy not only disregard the work I put into those tegus, but also discredit my name on this forum.

Wow...that there's a RANT! I apologize for the length, but if this guy's going to get credit for being the second guy on planet Earth (or at least as a member of this forum) to breed tegus, the truth needs to be known.

 

[Rhetoric]

I never got to see any of the deleted posts. From what I am able to read, this thread seems like a mess. To be honest, I didn't even read half of the posts because I felt they were irrelevant. I wanted to try to split it but I didn't know where to begin.

Congrats on the eggs. I personally would not have bred them at such a young age but they're your tegus . I hope it works out well for you and I hope they're all healthy. Looking at the other pictures you've posted they look like they're doing well.

 

[james.w]

I wasn't going to take the time to edit the posts, so I deleted them.