New Water Dragon (sad case)

[Draco D Tegu]

Ok so I just got this CWD.....he's in pretty rough shape. Seems to have had a broken toe that set badly, stuck shed and very stunted growth (told he was 6 mos) he's not even 10 inches, bad case of mouth rot and a VERY dirty habitat.

Got him home tonight and have him in his set up for tonight as is because of the cold I didn't want to stress him out by moving him into a completely new set up. Most important was to get him back in and under his heat lights.

Question is, what is the most viable method of treating this mouthrot? His jaw also looks misaligned like he may have started with MBD? Can't tell if it's that or just edema from the mouthrot.

The owners gave me his lights and I see no signs of UVB being placed on this animal at all.

I had a pair of CWDs a year or so ago, both of THOSE i got from Petco, both with upper respiratory infections, both treated time and again at the vet, and sadly both succumbed to the secondary pneumonia.

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated while I google everything I can for this little dude.

Think I'm gonna call him Chance.

 

[Guest]

Keep him and anything that comes close to him away from the rest of your animals ... If he is stunted he could also have parasites .. Hydrogen peroxide is what I use on dog ears and what ever maybe a Q tip with some of that ?? Antibiotics ?? Looks like you may get to go see the vet ....

 

[chelvis]

DO not use hydrogen peroxide on mouth rot, think about it do you want anywhere hear you mouth? Go to the vet they will give you an anit-biotic for it, ontop of that they can check for any intern parisites if you bring and fecal. Also haveing a vet take a look at it could revival other issues that may be more serious than mouth rot, such as a URI. Make sure that he is kept warm and well hydrated. Although humidity often makes mouth rot worse, dehydration would kill him in this bad of state.

 

[Guest]

A vet is always the best ... I have brushed my teeth many times with hydrogen peroxide ... It is available and it works !!! Panicure is Panicure and you can get horse wormer [safe guard ] at the feed store .. The dose isn`t really that touchy tho things that eat grass worm far easier [less] than do dogs cats ect ... The antibiotics for fish are the same as what the vet would give you .. They don`t make [dirty antibiotics] I take them my self ...The vet is best ... Around here we have to make do ...

 

[chelvis]

To each their own personally i would never use antibiotic for fish for reptiles or humans they are designed in a way that they can be absorbed and diluted in the water, which could make them unavablibe to humans or reptile becuase the does might be too small. Not to mention the vet migt try bytril it the animal looks really bad which is not in fish meds. Before using any meds an animal should be looked at to see what is wrong to make sure the right antibitoic is used and the right does so not to harm the animal.

Also hydrogen peroxide is not safe to swallow which is why i would not use it on an animal. It will not kill them but it is what we give the dog when it eats something it shouldnt to make it throw up. So for humans no problem we know not to swallow it, but a sick reptile the last thing you want to do is make it nausis.

As for the wormer Panicur is what they will use. The dosage does matter as it can cause negative side effects if way too much is given. Fallow the directions on the tube and their is no problems.

Sorry this not suppose to sound as an attack but i worked as a vet tech for 2 years and saw too many animals that people tired to self treat at home and there was nothing more we could do but put them to sleep by the time they arrived and it could have been something as simple as a burn or milded skin irritations.

 

[Draco D Tegu]

Well for starters, let me thank everyone for thier advice. It is much appreciated. I think I wanted a sounding board from others who've experienced similar issues as well as to vent how ticked off I am about how this guy was treated.

Thanks Montana, He is in quarantine. Nothing comes in contact with my other critters until after 45 days. So no worries there.

Actually I work in a vets office (16 years, man am I getting old.) unfortunately not a herp vet, we're a large animal and dog/cat facility. Were he a horse or a dog, I wouldn't have second guessed myself.

As most techs do, I have a supply of some medications on hand for my "menagerie".

So I followed our "pocket pet" SOP and started him on baytril kept his temps up and (put him in a new nice and humid habitat) then called my boss. After having her consult with a colleague, she also stated I might want to try some betadine diluted 1:100 BID. After a night little dude actually seems to be a little better. Still sleeping a lot but his color is green instead of drop dead brown. Some of the edema is down around his jaws so HOPEFULLY he hasn't started down the MBD road.

I had thought of perioxide but nixed the idea because perioxide is necrotic to the surrounding tissues (that's why it fizzes, it's gobbling up cells and popping them) The perioxide IS good for periodontal disease when diluted because it removes the dead cells and bacteria causing ulceration, but it IS harmful to the GI tract if swallowed. I didn't want to compromise the guy's gut flora (You're right about that Chelvis

BTW here is just an aside after having worked a number of years at a well known pharmaceutical company.........Regarding the fish drugs 250mg of metronidazole (amoxicillin etc) whether it's fishzole or Flagyl is still 250mg of the actual antibiotic. The anitibiotics are the same, the only difference in them is the vehicle used to deliver the drug. With your "fish" antibiotics, they are the same formulation but they have a water soluble carrier/vehicle. Which means that you can take them for yourself and you can give them to pets...IF and that is a BIG if you know the correct dosages for such species you are giving them to. So Montana is correct in that you are getting 250 mg of said drug no matter what the brand is, BUT if you're self dosing, make sure you know the appropriate contraindications with the drug for said species.

Now, the kicker with these antibiotics is this....the FDA is not required by law to regulate anything that a human will not consume or is marketed for human health that's why you see so many herbal remedies being mass marketed, and why you can buy the fish antibiotics without an Rx. BUT some companies such as "Glaxo-Smith Klein" will have subsidiary companies produce these antibiotics. Many of these antibiotics are manufactured under the same conditions and formulations as drugs for human consumption. Same company ....different labels (The comparison here is generic vs. name brand).

That being said, I would NOT reccommend any of these to someone without experience in dosing calculations and species knowledge. Anyway, it's late and I'm rambling on LOL.

Thank you all so much for your help!

 

[chelvis]

Interesting to know, i guess all the fish stores here only sell herbal and very low does anti-biotics. I'm gonna say it must be a california thing there are alot of fish meds you can't get ahold of here becuase most of our drainage ends up out at sea. Still doesing can be hard espcially with herps becuase their metabolisum is so much different.

Keep us updated on how he does, glad to hear his out of a crappy situation.

 

[Beazer]

I have worked with quite a few animals that have come in with mouth rot. It can even be a manifestation of URI or weakened immune system. Hydrogen peroxide works great, but sometimes thats just treating the symptoms. Antibiotics may be in order, however they can be very harsh on a sick animals system and destroy important bacteria in their digestive system.

Take care of him normally and supply a sufficient basking area and proper lighting (like uvb) and make sure that you keep the lighting on a scheduel. For hydration, keep normal humidity (make sure there is good ventilation) for them, make sure theres a water bowl big enought to soak and get in and out of (do not use tap water), you may also give it Pedialite (spelling?), and be sure tofeed it earthworms or other worms just make sure to cut them to the right size. Gut load the other feeder items but be sure to not over feed the CWD. It needs to slowly build up fat rather than fast. It might be best to keep it on brown paper towels (dont do white becausse its bright) until he is better. Supply a couple hides (not too many to where his feeders run off to), some fake plants that match his color, and some climbing branches for him to bask where he wants. Reduce the amount of stress on him like holding him and stuff and only go in the cage to feed/maintain. Right now you want to keep everything short, sweet, and to the point. Once its better you can do more.

More than likely he is loaded with parasites, but I would hold off a bit until it is eating decent to try worming him (usually using metronidazole or fenbendazole). Best of luck to you.

-Jon DeLong

 

[Draco D Tegu]

Actually the little dude is picking up nicely. I can still see his vertebrae, but his limbs are filling out as well as his ribs are "dissappearing". I don' t believe now that his condition was as much mouth-rot as it was a really infected shed/snout rub combination from his previous enclosure.

I had forgot how these guys tend to sleep and play dead, so Friday I went in and found him sleeping with his feet in the air, and shouted out.."OH NO, HE'S DEAD". I went to get him out and he flipped himself upright and looked at me like I had just interrupted the greatest nap of his life LOL. I remember now, my old CWD's used to sleep in much the same fashion.

I've officially named him "scabbers", partly because I'm a Harry Potter nut and partly because he was so scabby when I got him.


All in all he seems to be MUCH better.

 

[chelvis]

Thats great news his getting better. CWD never really to seem to bulk up so its good that your seeing progress in the limbs and rib area.

 

[Guest]

So glad he is improving !!! Your great care is what did it !!

 

[Draco D Tegu]

Thank you all