Savannah Monitor ?

[savannahmonitor.net]

I never said it was you that was accusatory, Ha. I'm also not being defensive, merely pointing out the purpose of any replies, as I'm far from an expert.

Then you have my sincere apologies.

That's the thing about forums, sometimes wires get crossed for no reason.

Heck, James and I have had a few "arguments" on other forums in the past, we got over it, discovered we are on the same page and it's been smooth sailing since.

I will admit, I am no "expert" either, I am just tenacious enough to pester the crap out of the experts and get the answers I seek.

Then by applying what they told me, I have a pair of Savannah monitors that can and do perform mid air barrel rolls to get a mouse off the tongs.

I swear, these two can perform Yoga! (got pictures of that too)

Sharp contrast to the waddling, lethargic blobs that all croak in 5 years or less.

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I'm happy Wayne is here I send countless people to his site for info!

Thank you......

 

[james.w]

Tannaros can you post some pics of your Sav and its enclosure??

A properly supported Sav could be fed a diet of only rodents and he would be fine.

This is the only place me and you differ on opinion not saying you are wrong at all because I've seen it work with rodents only but I prefer a heavy invert diet with rodents as supplements. This is a big debate in the Sav world haha.

I agree a bigger cage is needed and a higher basking spot 120-130 is what I aim for my hatchling was in a 4x2x2 cage until 2 foot long then moved to a 6x3x3. I also use mvbs and strip UVB but some say you can keep them without UVB. I had my Sav for 12 years before she passed.

Can I ask what you feed your tegu?

 

[Deac77]

My tegu?? He gets mice, quail, hare-today as a staple chicken gizzards, necks and livers as well as grapes blue berries greens

 

[james.w]

I'm merely pointing out the successes and practices of keepers I know and research I've done, in addition to my personal experiences. I have no interest in arguing with someone who created an account today and has an oddly similar writing style to another user.

Whether or not it's possible to keep a Sav on only rodents isn't truly the point. I personally feel that it's a good idea to imitate the diet that the animals we keep have evolved to function and thrive upon, and so that's what I suggested.

If the OP has any questions, I'm very glad the community has very experienced keepers to help. Though I do have to say the accusatory remarks seem unnecessary.

Now I am very confused, when did I ever argue or become accusatory?

This thread alone is peppered with misinformation, and I would be remiss to ignore it.

The very author who penned the research data indicating what their natural diet is, is in fact the same person who authored the link I posted none other than Dr. Daniel Bennett.

There is no reason for you to become defensive, I am only trying to be helpful to the original poster.

I never said it was you that was accusatory, Ha. I'm also not being defensive, merely pointing out the purpose of any replies, as I'm far from an expert.

Anyway I can see where this is going. The OP has plenty of information to go on.

How was I argumentative or accusatory towards you? You are the one that questioned my advice.

 

[savannahmonitor.net]

Moving along... I felt it would be a good read to share this..

Varanid lizards (the whole family) differ from all other lizards in having structural and physiological features that permit them to use aerobic metabolic pathways while active -- in other words, monitors are more similar to mammals than to other lizards in that they do not tire out quickly even during long periods of high locomotor activity. This is certainly a specialized trait. Monitors are also specialized compared to other lizards in having acute long-distance (color) vision, sensitive hearing, and very well-developed senses of smell and tongue-based vomeronasal organ "taste". Monitors additionally seem to be able to integrate all these senses well, and are pretty smart, for want of a better term.



These are all features that make monitors effective as widely-foraging predators, and they are very good at this. However, it is a fairly good general rule that predators cannot afford to be particularly choosy about what they eat, or overly specialized in the ways they go about searching for prey. (As an aside, many snakes violate this generality by being highly specialized for finding and consuming only a few kinds of prey.) While monitors may capitalize on seasonally abundant prey (for example, turtle eggs), all of the published studies of monitor diets show that individuals eat a wide range of prey types (basically as items are encountered). In other words, monitors that encounter a lot of freshwater crabs eat a lot of freshwater crabs, and likewise for other lizards, large insects, and so on. The Philippine monitors V. olivaceus and V. mabitang are unusual in feeding in part on fruits (they also eat snails), but there is actually very little in their structure that signals this dietary difference.



All of these species in fact eat lots of different prey types *when they can find them*.



This last point is the key. While you cannot make a strong argument that any monitor species is a dietary specialist, you can certainly show that many species are habitat specialists (and since this restricts the sorts of prey they encounter, you do therefore tend to see crabs inside of mangrove monitors, bearded dragons inside of Gould's monitors, and canopy insects inside of green tree monitors). It's the cart that follows the horse, folks.



Ecological differences between species of monitors lie mostly in body size and habitat use, with differences in diet being the consequence of those primary distinctions. Even so, there is not that much difference in body form evident among tree- or rock-dwelling species, semiaquatic species, or those that make their living on dry ground. Limb and tail proportions and general stoutness vary, but this is not very dramatic across the group. This is one reason that systematists continue to regard all monitors as members of a single genus, Varanus.

Sam Sweet
Professor, UC Santa Barbara

 

[dragonmetalhead]

I took several of Sam Sweet's courses when I was in college, the man knows his stuff.

 

[Grendel]

Wayne knows a lot about savannah monitors. He has some great animals and also acts as moderator on varanid sub forum of ssnakess. His advice is sound and he should be taken seriously.

 

[Vigilante]

So I got a 40breeder and put in about 9" of dirt. I have the basking temp at 125 and cool side at 80-85. He is still not eating very well, but has eaten a little more of the ground turkey. I made him some scrambled eggs and he seemed to like them.

Tannaros, do you think this set up will last me at least a year??

 

[TeguBuzz]

So I got a 40breeder and put in about 9" of dirt. I have the basking temp at 125 and cool side at 80-85. He is still not eating very well, but has eaten a little more of the ground turkey. I made him some scrambled eggs and he seemed to like them.

Tannaros, do you think this set up will last me at least a year??

No.

 

[savannahmonitor.net]

So I got a 40breeder and put in about 9" of dirt. I have the basking temp at 125 and cool side at 80-85. He is still not eating very well, but has eaten a little more of the ground turkey. I made him some scrambled eggs and he seemed to like them.

Tannaros, do you think this set up will last me at least a year??

No offense, but I would be amazed if your Savannah Monitor will live a year to be honest.

"he is not eating very well"

That lizard should be insatiable.

whole prey only, ground turkey lacks the nutrients needed.

to quote Frank Retes - if you are going to feed them turkey, feed them turkeys, feathers, feet, guts, beaks, skeleton and all.

Your lizard is stressed & under-metabolised, otherwise the world would be it''s dinner plate.

Buy some night crawlers, they are a favourite of Boscs.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCquQEDWeA4[/video]

 

[TegusRawsome80]

8x4x4 with a higher basking spot and at least 24 inches of substrate. Whole prey only, some go mostly invertebrates like roaches and some go all rodents but none of the turkey and eggs crap. Won't support the animal well. If you can't support it right, you should find it a better home to be honest. That setup won't last at all.

 

[savannahmonitor.net]

8x4x4 with a higher basking spot and at least 24 inches of substrate. Whole prey only, some go mostly invertebrates like roaches and some go all rodents but none of the turkey and eggs crap. Won't support the animal well. If you can't support it right, you should find it a better home to be honest. That setup won't last at all.

Two thumbs up...

 

[laurarfl]

I was asked to take a look at this thread from a moderator's perspective. This is the first time I have read it, so I am totally objective and uninvolved. I don't keep Boscs, so I have no opinion, although I have heard both theories on diet (rodents vs inverts). I think level-headed discussion is a great way to learn and I don't see anything objectionable in this thread. The OP and all who practice animal husbandry will need to collect information, weigh it, and make the choices they deem best for their animals. I think that is the point of forums.

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I'll send a message along to Josh and see if he has anything to add.

 

[Josh]

Keep it on-topic and respectful of each other. Remember no one's ego is too big to agree to disagree.

 

[savannahmonitor.net]

Keep it on-topic and respectful of each other. Remember no one's ego is too big to agree to disagree.

Agreed, so back on topic....

To the OP, if you want your Monitor to start eating, and if you want it to survive, you need to get it out of that fish tank and into a proper enclosure like yesterday.

Do yourself and your lizard a favor, read savannahmonitor.net carefully, follow the simple guidelines published within, and your little friend will start eating like a champ.

Also, hands off the lizard, it's obviously stressed right now, any human contact will only stress it further.

worry about handling when it gets healthy again.

 

[Tannaros]

How was I argumentative or accusatory towards you? You are the one that questioned my advice.

Your advice amounted to telling the OP he absolutely must have an adult sized enclosure for his monitor NOW which seemed unnecessary to me - you followed up with a very adamant attitude about diet that can be somewhat controversial in the monitor world.

I never even tried to say you we're wrong - just that I didn't agree.

So I got a 40breeder and put in about 9" of dirt. I have the basking temp at 125 and cool side at 80-85. He is still not eating very well, but has eaten a little more of the ground turkey. I made him some scrambled eggs and he seemed to like them.

Tannaros, do you think this set up will last me at least a year??

I always found that my monitor very much preferred moving prey opposed to scavenging. I think it just elicited a stronger feeding response and increased activity overall - promoting appetite.

So I would suggest switching over to live feeders - if it's a hatchling I'd recommend inverts, since they're fairly inexpensive, readily available, and pretty easy for almost any sized monitor to eat. Dubias are great, crickets work as well. I never had much luck with any of the shelled beetle larva like superworms.

As for the setup - I could never keep humidity where I wanted it in a glass tank. I tried using aluminum foil to cover screening, and then a damp towel, but it fluctuated too much for my liking.

I just built a box for my Sav 34"x20"x18" using simple melamine with holes cut in the top for lighting when she was small. Eventually I built a large 8x3.5x4.5 and those constructions seemed to work a lot better for me. Made me a lot less frustrated in trying to maintain environmental conditions.

I never said it was you that was accusatory, Ha. I'm also not being defensive, merely pointing out the purpose of any replies, as I'm far from an expert.

Then you have my sincere apologies.

That's the thing about forums, sometimes wires get crossed for no reason.

Heck, James and I have had a few "arguments" on other forums in the past, we got over it, discovered we are on the same page and it's been smooth sailing since.

I will admit, I am no "expert" either, I am just tenacious enough to pester the crap out of the experts and get the answers I seek.

Then by applying what they told me, I have a pair of Savannah monitors that can and do perform mid air barrel rolls to get a mouse off the tongs.

I swear, these two can perform Yoga! (got pictures of that too)

Sharp contrast to the waddling, lethargic blobs that all croak in 5 years or less.

---

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As you have mine.

I absolutely understand and totally agree about forums. It's pretty difficult to understand tone through text.

Your monitors are exceedingly healthy looking. Do you feed rodent-only, or a variety of sorts? I've seen so many sav's recently at shows who are just grotesquely overweight it saddens me.

 

[savannahmonitor.net]

As you have mine.

I absolutely understand and totally agree about forums. It's pretty difficult to understand tone through text.

Your monitors are exceedingly healthy looking. Do you feed rodent-only, or a variety of sorts? I've seen so many sav's recently at shows who are just grotesquely overweight it saddens me.

I feed a variety all at once, Each feeding almost always includes a number of night crawlers, Some Dubia (when the colony can support the losses) almost always includes some rat pups, occasionally includes some raw certified organic jumbo shrimp (after all shrimp are aquatic arthropods) and during the summer months they get to chomp on virtually unlimited crayfish (again arthropods) and some banana slugs.

As I have been stating from the onset, I keep my monitors in a very hot, humid climate that promotes full metabolism, science and history has proven that by hindering their optimal metabolism, the lizards fail

That's why we don't see many "old" Boscs.

 

[laurarfl]

Can you ship banana slugs?

 

[shaneluvsmonitors]

So I got a 40breeder and put in about 9" of dirt. I have the basking temp at 125 and cool side at 80-85. He is still not eating very well, but has eaten a little more of the ground turkey. I made him some scrambled eggs and he seemed to like them.

Tannaros, do you think this set up will last me at least a year??

No offense, but I would be amazed if your Savannah Monitor will live a year to be honest.

"he is not eating very well"

That lizard should be insatiable.

whole prey only, ground turkey lacks the nutrients needed.

to quote Frank Retes - if you are going to feed them turkey, feed them turkeys, feathers, feet, guts, beaks, skeleton and all.

Your lizard is stressed & under-metabolised, otherwise the world would be it''s dinner plate.

Buy some night crawlers, they are a favourite of Boscs.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCquQEDWeA4[/video]

Think i just had a heartattack wayne...

 

[savannahmonitor.net]

Can you ship banana slugs?

They turn to mush in transit, I tried to send some to Florida once to one of the big herp vendors, when Dan opened the container the slugs were all dead.

Maybe with a cold pack to keep them chilled it may work.

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Think i just had a heartattack wayne...

Why is that Shane? surprised to see me?

Whenever there is a Bosc in need, I arrive with speed.