Update on Trooper, My B/W Tegu

[dragonqueen4]

So, Im pretty positive my Tegu is dying.
He has the proper set up and the proper lighting, but his condition is getting worse.
He is no longer eating. When I take him out of his tank, he shakes uncontrollibly, much worse than before. And I just noticed tonight his breathing is not normal. I can sit next to his tank and hear him breathing through his nose, while his sides and his little jowls move in and out very quickly. I think he is severly dehydrated, although I mist him everyday and keep a dish of water in with him. His skin is wrinkled and has folds.
God damn this province I live in for not having a reptile vet

 

[LouDog760]

I'm not sure what to say. If you think he's severely dehydrated, give him a warm bath. They can absorb water threw these skin, at least I think tegu's can. Hopefully some can help you with this. Good luck!

 

[PinkPunisher]

I'm not sure what to say. If you think he's severely dehydrated, give him a warm bath. They can absorb water threw these skin, at least I think tegu's can.

No they can't absorb water through there skin maybe your thinking of amphibians or the thorny devil, although it doesn't absorb it through the skin. The scales are in a certain pattern that water runs up the animals legs or tail and the water is brought to the mouth where it drinks it. Very neat process, you should look it up on youtube.

DragonQueen, I don't know what to say other then that you may want to go down to a pharmacy and buy a eye dropper. It looks like its gotten to the point where you have to force the tegu to drink the water. Just fill the eye dropper with water and slowly squeeze out all the water into the tegus mouth. Do this until you feel comfortable that its gotten enough water. Depending on the size of the tegu and the eye dropper, two - five should be enough. You may also want to get some T/F pinkies and let two thaw out then force feed the tegu. While not the best to do, the tegu needs some type of food and water or it will most certainly die.

How big of a cage is he in? You may want to move him to a smaller quarantine cage if he is in a adult sized cage. This way you can keep a closer eye on everything he does. You may also want to put him on paper towel or newspaper to make sure it isn't ingesting the substrate for some reason. A towel folder over a few times will allow the tegu to burrow in the cage.

The last option although the hardest would be to consider euthanasia for the tegu. I would suggest taking trying to take it to some sort of vet for them to do it how they do with dogs and cats. This way it will be easier seeing him "go". There are other "home made" ways to euthanize the tegu but personally I wouldn't be able to do it unless I ABSOLUTELY needed to. These ways involve breaking the neck of the animal and such.

Hopefully I haven't depressed you with my paragraph above because I was not to. Just remember, if you do decide to euthanize the tegu that you did everything you could for it.

Also slightly left field but may I ask where you purchased the tegu? Was it from a pet store or did you order it online?

Good luck

Spencer

 

[dragonqueen4]

Thank you!!
I have been giving him some water in a syringe, and unless I do this very slowly the water comes back out through his nose ?
I have him in a 72gallon tank for now, he his only 19 inches long.
I have had him to the vet here many times, and my vet here is great, hes been trying to contact herp vets to help figure out whats going on, but so far no luck.
Because he is losing his balance and turning over the vet gave me some ivermectin to try incase it is a parasite.
If this doesnt work, I guess euthansia will be my next option.
I did buy him from a pet store. It seems pet stores always sell sick animals. He came from a guy named Saro, who owns Mirdo in Montreal. I also bought a Brazilian Rainbow Boa from him 2 months ago and the snake came in with mites..go figure.
If my tegu dies, I really want another one, but I dont think their are any breeders in Canada.

 

[VARNYARD]

I am sorry to hear about your tegu, and I am sorry your vet is unable to help you. I still think you are battling MBD with your tegu.

As for soaking, reptiles will absorb water through the skin, but not as much as amphibians. Your tegu still needs to drink water.

Does your tegu look like this?

 

[dragonqueen4]

YESSS, Thats EXACTLY what he looks like.
But why would he be getting worse with calcium shots and proper lighting? And what would cause the labored breathing.
So, What do I do now??

 

[VARNYARD]

Here is some info that will help you:

Varnyard: I have seen this twitching before in tegus that did not have UV lighting, it is not a pretty sight. Basically, some of the animals looked like they were suffering minor convulsions. As for tegu twitching, I think it is well known that Calcium deficiency is probably the leading killer of tegus in captivity. I think it can also be from an environmental problem, such as tegus becoming too hot, and maybe the answer to this trembling and twitching.
But remember, a diet abundant in calcium will do your tegus no good if the calcium to phosphorus ratio is not correct. It will also be a useless mineral if vitamin D3 is not present - a vitamin most easily obtained through exposure to unfiltered sunlight, or UV lighting. However, vitamin D3 is not a substitute for UV lighting, it also can be overdosed if not fed sparingly. Excess vitamin D3 supplementation, especially in combination with calcium may result in organ toxicity.

Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gout is a common clinical sign of this problem, (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs, back bones, this also can be seen in the head shapes, often times disfigurement can be seen in the animals. I use UV lighting and I use supplements. This has worked great for me, as the old saying goes; if it is not broke, don't fix it. In my opinion supplements are not a replacement and it is not worth taking a chance. I think UV lighting is a much better choice in any case. However, I do not think tegus would have the same problems that green iguanas have shown. Tegus are omnivores; the intake of calcium is much higher due to the intake of rodents. It is improper calcium metabolism what leads to MBD, and that is because of improper calcium metabolism the body takes what it needs from the bones, thus causing MBD. And sometimes you will find that some reptiles do not absorb enough calcium even with the right vitamins and proper diet, their bodies throws it off as waste. It is rare, but does happen. The deposition of calcium in the internal organs, this is primarily found in arboreal lizards, iguanas, chameleons and anoles. The only terrestrial lizard I have heard of having this problem is Swifts.

I have heard that vitamin supplements with D3 were a great substitute for UV lighting. I have disagreed about this from the first time this discussion was brought up. This only confirms my belief on a way to sell albino tegus with an excuse that UV is not needed and can be substituted with vitamin D3. UV lighting is working to keep healthy tegus; it is also not a risk as with using this supplement. The big question would be, would you depend on supplements that are not proven to be sufficient, verses UV lighting that we all know works just fine? In my opinion, it is not worth taking the risks.

I would say that the supplements are just that. They are not a substitute for UV lighting. For a healthy tegu, I will still recommend UV lighting, as well as supplements. But I will not say you need one without the other unless they are housed outside with natural sunlight. I still use a vitamin supplements however. Tegus fed rodents and that have proper UV lighting do not require added D3.

Please understand, the damage that has been done cannot be undone. Tegus without proper UV lighting suffer from not having proper lighting; this causes damage to vital organs and bone structure, and your tegu will never be like a normal tegu. He will labor in breathing; have problems with motion and even might have renal failure, or sad to say even death. As for calcium injections, they will add calcium to the blood, but this does not by any means mean it will absorb the calcium. My guess was the blood work was done after the calcium injections started; this would show the calcium in the blood work. Your tegu can be stopped from getting any worse, but the damage that is done is done. I am sorry that I had to tell you this, but this forum is all about the truth. I am also sorry for your tegu, he is the results of garbage products that are brought to our hobby for nothing more than profit.

As I have said so many times before, coil bulbs suck, and they are not proper UV lighting for reptiles. It is just a ploy by companies to market a product that they need to market. It does not mean that products sold by these companies are good for reptiles, and they are for sale regardless of how bad they are for your animals. Calcium sand, garbage lights, reptile bark, and many so-called supplements are good examples of this.

 

[dragonqueen4]

Thank you for your honesty. I guess I have a hard decision to make.

 

[laurarfl]

Ivermectin is a terrible dewormer choice for reptiles because of its toxicity. Fenbendazole, or Panacur is the preferred choice. I know your vet is trying to help, but he REALLY needs to get in touch with a reputable herp vet.

"* Ivermectin is administered in near-toxic doses to be effective, and must be repeated often 3 times to be as effective as the far less toxic fenbendazole. Merck, the maker of ivermectin, does not recommend its use in reptiles. Often fatal or nearly so to small, debilitated reptiles. May cause paralysis, blindness, etc. in larger reptiles. Its use is not recommended for lizards and snakes; it is nearly always fatal when used in turtles and tortoises. Ivermectin toxicity includes paralysis and blindness.

Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?  From "Drug Dosage and Chemotherapeutics", by Lara Maxwell, DVM, in Biology, Husbandry and Medicine of the Green Iguana, E.R. Jacobson, DVM, ed. "

 

[dragonqueen4]

I knew it was toxic to turtles/tortoises and dangerous to lizards if overdosed. I wont be giving any of my reptiles ivermectin ever again just to be on the safe side. My poor tegu has been through so much already, the last thing he needs is ivermectin poisoning. He had a prolapsed cloaca when I first got him. If he comes out a healthy tegu, he will definitely live up to his name Trooper

 

[laurarfl]

Lol, yes he is quite the trooper. Animals have an amazing ability to survive and some have a strong determination to live. That's why perhaps his quality of life may be just fine as long as he does not appear to be in physical pain.

Ultimately, that's just something you and your vet will have to work out since you guys are dealing with him in person.

 

[dragonqueen4]

Trooper is no better yet, still gets calcium shots everyday but the MVB Im using is made by hagen. I ordered a zoo med MVB a week ago and Im still waiting for it to arrive, I really hope it makes a difference for him. The weather is still not warm enough outside, but it is getting sunny out as opposed to fog everyday. He ate one chicken heart yesterday and thats the first thing hes touched in 2 weeks. He stopped eating after he went to the vet 2 weeks ago due to impaction and has had a swollen vent ever since. Ive been trying to force feed him a little, oxbow critical care.. theres no carnivore care at my vet. But he HATES when I force feed him which makes it very difficult. I expected him to lose a lot of weight, but he hasnt lost any, he is still fat, not really sure why this is. He sleeps a lot more now too. Im not really sure if hes gonna make a turn around or not, but Im still trying.

 

[crimsonrazac]

I really hope he does get better. I really respect you for everything you are doing to help him. I know alot of people who wouldn't have bothered.

 

[dragonqueen4]

Thank you, that means so much