Vet has different opinion on Tegu care

[Kiryu]

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Background:
While I was at work last week my Tegu, Kiryu, prolapsed and so I ended up driving two plus hours to a good reptile vet. The ones closer couldn't see me for another day because their reptile people don't come in that often. Because I wasn't home when it happened it got dirty and all that great stuff so I didn't want it to worsen, so I took him to the vet. He was put in sugar water while I was making calls to see if it'd fix itself. He stayed overnight and they put it back in and put sutures. I went to pick him up the next day and five minutes in the car he got moving and pops it out again (not as much) and so I had to go back and he stayed with them and he stayed there another two nights. I have him now and he has been doing well. He is on 3 oral meds and one injection, the cause was parasites- they found some while testing his stool. He was been dewormed.

The point of this thread. One of the vet techs*? suggested that I keep my tegu on repticarpet or something similar- AKA no substrate. When I asked how he would get the humidity he needs/so on- he told me he just has a play bin for his reptiles during the day. They also don't want him eating anything till I see normal stool from him. It's been about three days now, he has gone once but just the yellow part. When I do feed him they want me to give him baby food, like gerber, I plan on mixing some of his supplements into this though. Of course with having sutures I took all his substrate out until its all over but the vet tech was wanting me to make this permanent. I've gathered a lot of my info from this forum and I've seen how stressed it is to keep them on good substrate so that they stay properly hydrated/stimulated. Should I just ignore the advice? What do you guys think?

Care info:
I keep him on a varied diet of meats/fruits/veggies and he LOVES reptilinks, I mainly offer him the fruit and veggie mixes. Add supplements when needed. Basking surface area during the day is around 115 f. measured by temp gun, he isn't full grown yet, I think he is around 35-42 inches. Ambient 80s towards cooler side of cage, he gets a bath at least once a day before he gets to walk around my room, mainly so that he relieves himself there and not in my room. He has proper lighting in cage and gets outside time in the sun with supervision. I love him, he is my baby and I just want what is best for him. I don't really like the idea of keeping him on baby food for too long. I definitely don't want to ignore vet advice but I know everyone here cares about their tegus so I guess I'm conflicted.

Any advice or thoughts are appreciated!

 

[Walter1]

Hi Kiryu- my three adults overwinter for almost six months. When they are out, as they are now, they are in an outdoor enclosure with a cement substrate! In nature, their retreats hols some moisture but their environment is somehat dry to very dry grassland. A mostly coverd cage with large shallow water bowl to soak and newspaper substrate is fine. You could ask vet if moist sphag in his hide bos is OK. Still, not necessary if water from bowl relatively trapped in mostly closed cage. Meat should exceed fruits in his diet.

You're very consciencious. Sounds like you're on the right track.

On a side note, I'm curious about the worms?? How long have you had him, and where'd he come from? If WC, he should've been dewormd prior to sale.

 

[Kiryu]

Hi Kiryu- my three adults overwinter for almost six months. When they are out, as they are now, they are in an outdoor enclosure with a cement substrate! In nature, their retreats hols some moisture but their environment is somehat dry to very dry grassland. A mostly coverd cage with large shallow water bowl to soak and newspaper substrate is fine. You could ask vet if moist sphag in his hide bos is OK. Still, not necessary if water from bowl relatively trapped in mostly closed cage. Meat should exceed fruits in his diet.

You're very consciencious. Sounds like you're on the right track.

On a side note, I'm curious about the worms?? How long have you had him, and where'd he come from? If WC, he should've been dewormd prior to sale.

Well he was given to me as a gift, for my birthday- I got him Easter sunday. He was kinda a rescue. I do believe he was captive bred though. The vet said that the babies can get worms as they develope inside but there could be a possiblity that while I was gone he got into something? I have family members who take care of animals when I am away. The parasite he had was one that only transfers via feces. His attitude through this ordeal hasn't changed one bit. He remains my curious guy who loves movin about.
As for cage he is in a wooden enclosure with front sliding glass doors
Edit: also he doesn't get fed live prey so there shouldn't be any chance that was the source of parasites?
Thanks for commenting, I appreciate it.

 

[N8bub]

So glad to hear that your tegu is doing better. Did the vet tech mean no substrate until the prolapse was healed(seems like good advice if this is the case) or did they mean at all times?

 

[Kiryu]

So glad to hear that your tegu is doing better. Did the vet tech mean no substrate until the prolapse was healed(seems like good advice if this is the case) or did they mean at all times?

He is doing great, normal stools but still has a few stitches because they'd rather be safe than sorry. Should be taken out sometime this week though. The guy was talking about it for all times. He did mention a "play cage" but I kinda don't see the point in that? This started because I asked, just for confirmation, if I should empty/clean out his cage till it is all over. Once he knew I used substrate he told me he is a "firm believer in repticarpet" and stuff like that.

 

[Roadkill]

Walter, not sure where you're getting your information from, but I'd say it is not really accurate. In South America, the tegus have a rather broad range of environments, but the cerrado is probably most dominant (a tropical savanna), but everything from the caatinga to tropical rainforests are also within their range. Where I did most of my studies was what would be the cerrado, what you are referring to as "grassland". The only time of the year the relative humidity dropped below 95% for any significant amount of time was during "winter". Outside of winter, every day relative humidity would hit 100%. Every day.
Now, that being said, I don't think tegus must have that high of humidity. They can certainly do well with a lower relative humidity. My caution would be in how many corners does the average hobbyist cut. I don't think there's any information for saying what the optimum would be, but when nutrition isn't rigorously followed, temperatures are enough to get by, UVB is so-so, diet is over-abundant but narrow in scope, well it all adds up. Shoot for the best is my advice.

Kiryu, you have to take what the vet says with a grain of salt. A BIG grain of salt. I've worked with many vets, and over the years I've heard some truly, remarkably STUPID stuff from their mouths. I've as well heard from a number of vets about the pros of repticarpet, and about all I can say is A) they have little to no experience with the animal they are suggesting it for, B) they may have no experience with repticarpet to understand both its good points and bad points, and C) for many of these things, too many "clients" only hear the basic message (repticarpet good!) without either hearing why this is being recommended, or asking why this is being recommended. Not saying this is the case for you, just making points. Unless you have a lazy, obese tegu, or you have your set up where the carpet is firmly fixed in place, you are going to wind up with carpet either bunched up in the corner like a discarded towel, or the tegu camping out underneath it, and usually in any case the carpet not being in place to "collect" feces and such, so basically not really doing the job you intend it to. A big reason many vets advise against natural substrates is if it isn't properly maintained, it IS a breeding ground for fungus, bacteria, and other pathogens that can seriously compromise your tegu's health. If you have a tegu with a prolapse, this is a serious concern. For the sake of ensuring proper healing with the prolapse and to prevent secondary infection, it is in your best interest to maintain as antiseptic an environment as possible that wouldn't have "loose particles" to adhere to any sensitive tissue, so this would mean no dirt or other possibly contaminated substrates, and it would be advisable to use a covering that is easily cleaned and replaced. Hence why repticarpet would be good (or paper towel, newspaper, etc.). But with a healthy tegu, environmental enrichment is something that should be thought about. Tegus like to dig, explore, get into and under things.....carpet may be suitable to your needs, might work well with your tegu, but I'm willing to bet a properly maintained natural substrate would work better for your tegu.

 

[Walter1]

Thanks Roadkill. Yes a broad range of habitats and associatrd conditions. The Gran Chaco ranges from semi-ard to semi-humid. The Arg. B/W is by no means a desert animal but it is not a slave to constantly high humidity either.

A northeastern house in the winter can be drier than a desert (no dew fall, etc.)vs undue attention to high humidity other times of the year can create health issues. My feeling being semi-humid with good air flow is a good range to aim for.

 

[Walter1]

Ahh, my mistake was earlier noting only the drier areas they occur. It doesn't mean they like dry, they don't, but they can safely thrive in conditions not nearly as saturated as one sometimes reads.

 

[Kiryu]

Walter, not sure where you're getting your information from, but I'd say it is not really accurate. In South America, the tegus have a rather broad range of environments, but the cerrado is probably most dominant (a tropical savanna), but everything from the caatinga to tropical rainforests are also within their range. Where I did most of my studies was what would be the cerrado, what you are referring to as "grassland". The only time of the year the relative humidity dropped below 95% for any significant amount of time was during "winter". Outside of winter, every day relative humidity would hit 100%. Every day.
Now, that being said, I don't think tegus must have that high of humidity. They can certainly do well with a lower relative humidity. My caution would be in how many corners does the average hobbyist cut. I don't think there's any information for saying what the optimum would be, but when nutrition isn't rigorously followed, temperatures are enough to get by, UVB is so-so, diet is over-abundant but narrow in scope, well it all adds up. Shoot for the best is my advice.

Kiryu, you have to take what the vet says with a grain of salt. A BIG grain of salt. I've worked with many vets, and over the years I've heard some truly, remarkably STUPID stuff from their mouths. I've as well heard from a number of vets about the pros of repticarpet, and about all I can say is A) they have little to no experience with the animal they are suggesting it for, B) they may have no experience with repticarpet to understand both its good points and bad points, and C) for many of these things, too many "clients" only hear the basic message (repticarpet good!) without either hearing why this is being recommended, or asking why this is being recommended. Not saying this is the case for you, just making points. Unless you have a lazy, obese tegu, or you have your set up where the carpet is firmly fixed in place, you are going to wind up with carpet either bunched up in the corner like a discarded towel, or the tegu camping out underneath it, and usually in any case the carpet not being in place to "collect" feces and such, so basically not really doing the job you intend it to. A big reason many vets advise against natural substrates is if it isn't properly maintained, it IS a breeding ground for fungus, bacteria, and other pathogens that can seriously compromise your tegu's health. If you have a tegu with a prolapse, this is a serious concern. For the sake of ensuring proper healing with the prolapse and to prevent secondary infection, it is in your best interest to maintain as antiseptic an environment as possible that wouldn't have "loose particles" to adhere to any sensitive tissue, so this would mean no dirt or other possibly contaminated substrates, and it would be advisable to use a covering that is easily cleaned and replaced. Hence why repticarpet would be good (or paper towel, newspaper, etc.). But with a healthy tegu, environmental enrichment is something that should be thought about. Tegus like to dig, explore, get into and under things.....carpet may be suitable to your needs, might work well with your tegu, but I'm willing to bet a properly maintained natural substrate would work better for your tegu.

Hey there, thanks for the reply. He definitely is very active, right now he is on towels until all the stitches are gone and keeping them flat is very hard haha. I know that during this period where he is still "recovering" that he'd need to be on towels/things like that. He is doing great though. He has had no problems so really I'm just waiting to hear from the vet about when the last of his sutures should be taken out..I've left about three messages over the week.. I'll probably wait a bit after suture removal until I know for sure things are ok and I'm going to give him back his substrate- I can tell he really misses having things in his enclosure. When the vet recommended the repticarpet I definitely took it with a grain of salt and asked him about things, such as keeping humidity at right level. I know everyone will have their own take on animal care and so on, that is why I always really look into things to get information and I come out with what most agree on. I appreciate all your comments guys, when it comes to the care of my animals, I always want to try my best at giving them everything I can. These guys are familiar with reptiles so that is the only reason I came to the forum asking people's thoughts, doesn't mean I thought they were right but again I always like to hear both sides.

 

[Walter1]

Kiryu- keep drawing in good info to make the best decisions.

Let us know how it goes.