# Slack Lower Lip?



## siphon (Feb 6, 2015)

Here I am posting about my little red tegu Slumdog again... Brief update on him.

He's definitely a male, yippie for finally knowing the sex now! His shed problems are still off and on, depending on how much we have the heat running in the house this winter. Coconut oil after soaks has really helped him with all of the stuck shed.

He started sleeping a lot more lately. Recently had a vet check up with a reliable local herp veterinarian, where I expressed my concerns about him sleeping more and eating less (he was a VERY robust eater). He assured me this was probably normal, being winter and all. My bearded dragons are indeed deep in brumation, but I thought perhaps Slumdog was too young to partake.

He came out to eat today and I noticed one side of his jaw looks a little different. The lip appears slack? He ate several roaches, blue berries, and a pinkie with no issues. When I watched him while he was soaking, sometimes I felt like I couldn't see the "issue" but now I'm really paranoid.

I supplement his non-whole grinds and insects with Minerall Indoor and he gets a fair amount of whole prey & whole grinds. Am I overreacting or is there something up with his lip/jaw? I don't recall it being like that at his vet visit (Jan 23) and the vet likewise didn't mention it.

He's under UVB and temps are appropriate. Pics below that show the lip/jaw abnormality.



 

EDIT: Just saw this list of things recommended to include when asking for advice. Sorry!

What kind of tegu do you have? *Tupinambis rufescens*
How old is your tegu? *Unknown. Purchased 4 months ago as a well-started "hatchling".*
How large is your tegu? *Unknown, can obtain weight and measurement.*
What is the sex of your tegu? *Male*
How long have you had your tegu? *4 months.*
Does your tegu brumate or hibernate? *Unsure. *
What size enclosure do you have? *Custom. 4ft L x 2ft H x 2ft D. Upgrading to 6ft soon.*
What kind of substrate is used? *Cypress.*
What kind of UVB do you use (brand and coil vs bulb vs tube)? *Powersun* 
What is the wattage of your bulb? *I believe 100.*
How old is your bulb? *5 months old.*
How far away is the UVB? *2 feet from the floor of the cage, 8-12 in from the top of his basking rock*
Do you use a separate bulb for heat? What is the wattage? *Yes. Would have to check the wattage.*
What are the temps (basking and cool side)? *100 basking, 78-80 cool.*
What do you use to measure the temps? *Temp gun*
What is your humidity? What do you use to measure it? *50%+, aim for 75%+ but having issues during winter*
What do you feed your tegu? *Whole prey grinds (rabbit, duck, and turkey are favorites), fresh quail eggs, dubia roaches, superworms, pinkies, berries, canned snails, berries, pumpkin, greens, squash, etc...*
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? *Offer food daily, food is placed in the enclosure in the morning and removed at night. I offer primarily *
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? *Minerall Indoor Formula. I dust any insect meals with this, or add it to any grinds that are not "whole" (ie do not include bone).*
Does your tegu have regular BM's? *Yes.*
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? *Yes.*
Does your tegu share and enclosure with another tegu? *No.*


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## Jackie & Hellboy (Feb 6, 2015)

Could be early signs of mouth rot. Ask your vet what to do about it. How is the humidity? If he still has issues shedding it might be to low still. What kind of substrate is he on?


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## siphon (Feb 6, 2015)

He's on cypress mulch. Humidity is off and on. He was doing great with shedding and the levels in his cage were excellent until we had to turn the heat on for the winter, it really dries the house out. We have a humidifier running in the reptile room as well as live plants, but his levels are still not where they should be 100% of the time. I have covered half of his screen top and he has spagnum in his hide box (which I change out regularly). Levels never fall below 50%, but I struggle to keep it 75%+.


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## siphon (Feb 6, 2015)

Just a new note: I just peeked at him and he's asleep basking. His lip looks perfectly normal at the moment in his resting position. Not sure if that makes a difference in whether or not this is an actual issue.


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## SnakeCharmr728 (Feb 6, 2015)

Hi. Cute little guy! 
Thank you for answering all those questions, that really helps narrow things down! 

The lip is often seen in animals showing calcium deficiency and the onset of MBD, and its also seen in much older animals where fat is stored in the gumline. Your little guy appears to have a good diet but I would suggest switching out the powersun for a Mega-Ray, the powersuns are really crap bulbs with low UV and low heat output whereas Mega-ray is the best on the market with significantly higher heat and UV output as well as it lasts 12-18months whereas the uv that powersun puts out is pretty much gone within the first few weeks of using the bulb. and the kicker is Mega-ray is ALOT cheaper! you can order one from www.yourtegu.com - that site is run by Laura Roberts who is a very respected admin on this group, she is a distributor of the bulbs and her profits go to raising her beautiful tegus. Its great that you are using a temp gun to measure your basking temps but your temps are still a little low. For smaller/young tegus 120-125 is recommended and you can increase to higher (130-135) as he grows. This will help make sure that his body is absorbing all the nutrients from the foods he is eating as well as decreasing any risk of impaction. 

Also he looks big enough to take larger prey, pinks really dont have much calcium to them, they are mainly fat because of the lack of developed bones so try offering large fuzzies or larger. They can eat things as wide as their own head (not between the eyes like how it is with beardies)

Be sure you are rotating calcium with and without d3. Anytime you feed non-whole prey use a calcium without d3. and then 1-2x weekly use d3 because the d3 can be overdosed which would be bad. Even on whole-grinds, use calcium. Keep in mind that whole-grinds, while they are much better than non-whole grinds, they should not replace the whole prey in the diet because the problem with whole-grinds is that you have no way of knowing what portion of the animal is in that particular meal you are feeding so it is not "whole". 

I think your little guy would greatly benefit from a switch in substrate. I see so many reds having shed problems. Reasons are usually lack of fruit intake and substrate. Its much better and safer too, to use an organic top soil. At walmart or home depot you will find bags for $1.89 with brands like Scotts and Earthgro. Stay away from anything with fertilizers or pesticides like miracle grow. Offer a good 4-5inches, even if it sloped. so that your little guy can burrow. The humidity in the burrow will be higher than it is on the surface level. and its totally safe if ingested, unlike the cypress mulch. Also since the soil holds moisture better, you wont struggle with the humidity as much. 

Hope this helps!


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## siphon (Feb 6, 2015)

And I thought I'd done thorough research before buying him LOL! Thank you SO much for all of your information and suggestions, I'll take steps to alter my husbandry. If the lip IS signs of early MBD / calcium deficiency, will the deformity be permanent?

I'll order the bulb tonight and get some of the organic top soil. He loves his fruits, so I'll increase the amount I offer him.

In a previous post I made about his shed issues, Laura suggested keeping his hot spot no higher than 115. With this conflicting information, should I keep his hot spot AT 115? Or still go for higher?

Hopefully I can correct everything and do him justice. He's such a phenomenal animal!


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## SnakeCharmr728 (Feb 6, 2015)

Is he one of Laura's babies? She has very high white reds and shes noticed that they do better at the 115 for starters because higher dries them out. I'd say its okay to keep at 115 but increase as he grows.


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## siphon (Feb 6, 2015)

I did not buy him from Laura, he is of unknown lineage. The gentleman I got him from purchased him in Daytona.

I will take all of your advice, thank you so much for taking the time to respond and correct my husbandry errors. We're very appreciative


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