# Co-inhabitant Thoughts



## dorton (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm just curious if when I finish my outdoor enclosure if my tegus, and my savannah could 
co-habitate for short periods of time. The enclosure will be around 10x20. I would like to 
know if it would be possible for me to allow them to share it while I am gone to work, or am I just asking for truouble?
if it were a Nile, or a Croc, I would never consider it, but with it being a savannah I though it could be possible.
Thoughts??


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## Lexi (Mar 5, 2008)

I dont see it being a problem.. But you should put them in there and watch them for a couple of days, before you leave them alone while you go to work.


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## ColdThirst (Mar 5, 2008)

agreed


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## Adams13 (Mar 5, 2008)

All i know is that i want to see some pictures when that is complete, 10x20 would be an amazing enclosure.


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## ZEKE (Mar 5, 2008)

i dont know about either kind of lizard really but i would not put them in there and go to work the first time you try it. maybe put them in there for a weekend when you will be home and can watch them. then if all goes well i would say it would be fine.


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## dorton (Mar 5, 2008)

Adams13 said:


> All i know is that i want to see some pictures when that is complete, 10x20 would be an amazing enclosure.



I am pretty excited about it, it will be ladscaped inside, and outside. My plan is to make my backyard a little zoo-esque getaway. I dont want to feel like I live in the outskirts.

A cool to check out a naturalistic enclosure is Bert's at agama international. His tegus are in very large outside enclosures. http://www.agamainternational.com

I am going to have big rocks(some real, and some faux) lots of grass, shrubs, and plants to make them feels as homey as possible. I have investigated geothermal temps for my region for nesting depths so they will fine with outdoor life year round. When I start I will have lots of pics!!


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## DZLife (Mar 5, 2008)

My best buddy Mike has a Savannah, and he is a big sweetie. I really think that whether or not your idea would work out depends on the individual savannah monitor, in addition, it depends on whether or not the tegus would be tolerant of the presence of a predatorial reptile much larger then themselves. Even if the Savannah wouldn't harm them physically, they might get quite stressed or scared, whic is obviously a bad thing.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 5, 2008)

I don't think it depends on the individual. They're different animals and have different environments. I wouldn't house them together. Adult savannahs will thrive with basking surfaces that reach a staggering 150. Tegus don't like those kind of temperatures. Another problem is that savannah monitors have strong jaws. Those jaws are designed for crushing large, robust land snails in Africa. They can easily break bones. I know many instances where savannahs have killed their own kind, even in large enclosures. So what's to stop them from killing another species? Savannah monitors are not social animals so I doubt there would be an equilibrium amongst the inhabitants. I would think the monitor would be unhealthy if it didn't defend itself. They are just spunky by nature.

Anyone whose ever lost a pet knows how hard it can be. I would never try this under any circumstance. One of your pets could get injured or killed. It's not worth it. Besides, the cage would either have to be too hot for the tegu or too cold for the monitor. The choice is yours, but the stakes are high.


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## playlboi (Mar 5, 2008)

yeah, i would have to agree with larry there.
its too much of a risk to house savs and tegus together. totally different types.
i wouldn't do that, ever.
but a 10x20? man, that's awesome. i wish i had the room for that.
maybe later!
keep it posted!


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## dorton (Mar 5, 2008)

Its not so much the enviroment that I was worried about, it would be outside, in natural sunlight during daytime hours. What I was curious about was if there would be conflict between the lizards.
I just wasn't sure if savannahs have been kept together in more than singles or pairs. Now that I am home I am going to do some research on varanus.nl.
Thanks for the input all.


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## Mike (Mar 5, 2008)

shiftylarry said:


> I don't think it depends on the individual. They're different animals and have different environments. I wouldn't house them together. Adult savannahs will thrive with basking surfaces that reach a staggering 150. Tegus don't like those kind of temperatures. Another problem is that savannah monitors have strong jaws. Those jaws are designed for crushing large, robust land snails in Africa. They can easily break bones. I know many instances where savannahs have killed their own kind, even in large enclosures. So what's to stop them from killing another species? Savannah monitors are not social animals so I doubt there would be an equilibrium amongst the inhabitants. I would think the monitor would be unhealthy if it didn't defend itself. They are just spunky by nature.
> 
> Anyone whose ever lost a pet knows how hard it can be. I would never try this under any circumstance. One of your pets could get injured or killed. It's not worth it. Besides, the cage would either have to be too hot for the tegu or too cold for the monitor. The choice is yours, but the stakes are high.



Thanks, you saved me from having to type that. 

Please don't do it, it's just not worth it. They require different husbandry, and never see each other in the wild.

People have kept savs in groups. 

Don't do it. If you can build a 20x10 cage, I'm sure you could build a separate cage for the monitor.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 5, 2008)

Varanus have been kept together. Some are more tolerant than others. Ackies and Blackheads for example are commonly kept as trios. People who house savannahs together have the best success when they raise a pair or a group together and later downsize the group to a pair or pairs. Even so it is usually a male and female situation. And, even if you have a pair that tolerate each other, breeding behavior (copulation) can be very violent. Some times the males can be so aggressive that the pairs have to be separated for a while. If you ever get another sav with your current one, you will need a big cage (50% larger than the minimum for one) and multiple basking spots. A minimum of two, but 4 would be even better. Basically you need separate everything (hides, food bowls, ect.). One will assert itself as the dominant individual, and sometimes you have to go out of your way to make sure that they both get an even amount of food.

If you're new to monitors, spend some time with the one you have. Just watching him/her will teach you a lot about their behavior. With this experience, you'll be able to read your monitor's moods. Once you understand some of the basics, you'll be more prepared for a pair. If you're not used to monitors, you may not understand what certain behaviors mean and overlook problems occurring with the pair. It's up to you though. As I said before, people have more success with monitors raised up side by side. 

If you have interests in breeding monitors, ackies are the best beginner species. All the ackies available on the market are CB. Every savannah you see is wild caught. It isn't impossible to breed them, but WC are so cheap and breeding is so expensive, that you simply can't make any money off of it.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

-Chris


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## AB^ (Mar 5, 2008)

i'd just build two 10 x 10 cages one for each.


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## Adams13 (Mar 5, 2008)

Did u take any pictures?


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## DZLife (Mar 5, 2008)

shiftylarry said:


> I don't think it depends on the individual. They're different animals and have different environments. I wouldn't house them together. Adult savannahs will thrive with basking surfaces that reach a staggering 150. Tegus don't like those kind of temperatures. Another problem is that savannah monitors have strong jaws. Those jaws are designed for crushing large, robust land snails in Africa. They can easily break bones. I know many instances where savannahs have killed their own kind, even in large enclosures. So what's to stop them from killing another species? Savannah monitors are not social animals so I doubt there would be an equilibrium amongst the inhabitants. I would think the monitor would be unhealthy if it didn't defend itself. They are just spunky by nature.
> 
> Anyone whose ever lost a pet knows how hard it can be. I would never try this under any circumstance. One of your pets could get injured or killed. It's not worth it. Besides, the cage would either have to be too hot for the tegu or too cold for the monitor. The choice is yours, but the stakes are high.



meh, now that I have read this, I would like to retract my statement. I think he's right....plus, with that much space, you could probably build a sufficient barrier between the tegus and the sav.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 5, 2008)

The funny thing is that I have seen these multiple species things "work" so to speak. How they "work" is by keeping the temps too low for the savannahs, and as a result they are just to lethargic to function properly. Probably fed dog food as well. I saw a Kingsnake add where a guy had red tegus, black and whites, niles, and savannahs all living together. The niles were advertised as "tame". Hmmm... wonder why? Is limp and unresponsive what they're calling tame these days.


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## VARNYARD (Mar 5, 2008)

I must agree with Larry, it is not a good idea. Both of these animals, even if they do get along have different requirements. Tegus like it real humid, and Savs are from the dry savanahs. It is always best to house them seperate, I do not even mix my different species of tegus.


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## ZEKE (Mar 5, 2008)

after reading the replies by everyone else im thinkin it is a bad idea too. you could just build 2 cages the right size instead. i didnt know that there were temp differences and stuff with them.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 5, 2008)

> i didnt know that there were temp differences and stuff with them.


Yeah, big differences. Tegus are from Argentina, so they're fairly cold tolerant as Bobby's said many times. Savannahs live in arid Africa. I imagine if they got below 65 degrees, they'd be in SERIOUS TROUBLE. They are tougher than other monitors, because they come from a sometimes unforgiving climate, but the fluctuations are not as drastic as Argentina. Indonesian monitors are even less tolerant of keeper mistakes. This is a really bold statement, but I'd say the toughest monitor is probably the argus.


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## dorton (Mar 6, 2008)

I keep reading about individual needs in here, should I not put the savannah outside with average daytime highs of 87 in June, and 90 in july?? From what I've read thats directly in line with the needs of the monitor. It will not be outside at night, even with the night time low average of almost 70. I understand the differences in their climates, and have taken that into consideration with their current setups. I guess When it comes time the total outside dimension will just be another 10 ft longer.I know I cannot replicate the habitat of Zimbabwe or Ghana and such, but I do believe 
the benefits of natural sunlight exposure would outweigh the difference in climate.


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## angelrose (Mar 6, 2008)

wow, now that's an enclosure. one of them will be lucky 8) 
I have a savannah and tegus and I don't let them roam around together at the same time. the savannah is a big sweety but very powerful. how about a _strong_ divider in there :?:


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## hoosier (Mar 6, 2008)

shiftylarry said:


> > This is a really bold statement, but I'd say the toughest monitor is probably the argus.



i have to agree with you. most of the breeders i have talked to say that the argus is pretty hardy and forgiving towards the mistakes of the keeper. its one of the reasons i choose to get one of these mini tanks. 8) v.panoptes horni also has to be my favorite monitor so i agree %100 with you :-D


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## shiftylarry (Mar 6, 2008)

My first monitor was an adult female argus. It was a few years back. I thought I had done my research, but I'd really just been misinformed by ignorant pet store owners and wholesalers. If I'd made the same mistakes I made with my argus with my Rudicollis, he'd be dead for sure.

Dorton: You still need to provide some lighting just in case. It's pretty easy. I recommend using outdoor fixtures with 45-65 watt halogen flood bulbs. I can't guarantee things will work out. Really experienced keepers have lost monitors when they kept them outside. As a general rule, putting your monitor outside isn't something you try if you don't have a lot of confidence in yourself.

Don't forget also that you will either need a solid bottom, or a fence that extends a minimum of 4 ft into the ground. It's not uncommon for savs to have 6 ft burrows in the wild. Don't forget about ground temperatures. They can get pretty cold. Monitors are very smart, but they aren't good at recognizing cold.

The benefits of sunlight are great. Reptiles, even carnivores, are known to synthesize calcium from sunlight through their skin. I just want you to understand what the possible consequences are. If you do house him outside, almost all keepers use a wooden "hot box" that the monitors can retreat to.

I'll try and get you the email of a guy named shay who houses his argus outside in the summer.

-Chris


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