# Back from the Vet..Surgery Tomorrow :(



## dragonqueen4 (Apr 27, 2009)

I just got home from the vet with Trooper to have his swollen vent checked on and to hopefully leave with some antibiotics.
However.....
things didnt go according to the plan. My vet took an xray and lodged right in his abdomon is a big rock. Im pretty sure I know what this is... about a month ago I put a human vitamin in his food, thinking this was a great idea to help him get stronger with his MBD. 
Well, that mistake is gonna cost me about 500$ :doh 
Either that, or euthanization. But, because this is my fault, I feel it is my responsibility to fix it. 
Plus, the vet said his bones looked a little stronger on the xray and his toe twitching has stopped. If his MBD is getting better I cant give up on him now. 

When I get a copy of the xray I will post the pic!!


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## ashesc212 (Apr 27, 2009)

So is it an actual rock or some sort of hard, rock-like impaction?

I hope the surgery is a success and I will be sending positive vibes to you and Trooper!


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## Beasty (Apr 27, 2009)

Was it Centrum by chance you gave it? Those don't digest. This was found by a plumber that found them everywhere and curiously had them analyzed to find they were Centrum multivitamins. How bout that? So, if you're taking those throw them out, they don't digest and you get nothing from them. 

I'd say $500 is way steep to pull that out if that's all it is...and it should have passed. Did they try probing or anything for it? Sounds like your vet is taking you for a ride or knows nothing about reptiles.


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 27, 2009)

It wasnt centrum, it was a shoppers brand and small and white.. when he had his xray 2 weeks ago it didnt show up all he could see was what looked like little bits of grit in his stomach. but now its a huge rock like object. Funny thing is, i havent given him anything since then.. so its very strange. 

500 is a lot of money just to open him up and remove it. He said theres no way he will pass it, I saw the pic and it was huge. like the size of my pinky nail. i just dont understand why it wouldnt of showed in his last xray.


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## Beasty (Apr 27, 2009)

Interesting. Well did this condition arise after you started taking him outside? Could it actually be a rock?


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 27, 2009)

The funny thing is ... hes been showing all these symptoms since i had him for his first xray 2-3 weeks ago and ive only had him outside this past 3 days. He hasnt eaten since then, hes been bloated and his vent was pink and swollen at the time.. but my vet never said anything about those symptoms.. just gave him an enema then took an xray and said his xray showed there was nothing left, just little pieces of grit. 
I dont know if this grit (which i assumed was pieces of the vitamin) compacted together and formed this rock. I emailed my vet and asked for a copy of the first xray because I find this all too strange why it wouldnt show in the first xray. He hasnt eaten anything solid since then. 
If I go ahead with the surgery as planned I guess my questions will be answered tmw. 
Someone in another forum said an impaction like this could form out of nowhere just because of his health problems?? i dont know how thats possible


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## Red Earth Exotics (Apr 27, 2009)

would a pill actually show up on an x-ray?


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## RehabRalphy (Apr 27, 2009)

Red Earth Exotics said:


> would a pill actually show up on an x-ray?



I do believe so. It may not be an obvious shape, but there will be a distinct dark or light object in the stomach. Or a faded shape. I want to see the xrays if you ever get them onto an email.

Its possibly the fragments didnt digest in the stomach. Could be caused by several things. IE: Stress, temperature of enclosure, and the pill itself.


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## Tux (Apr 27, 2009)

When an animal is in poor health it becomes harder for their digestive system to function properly depending on the health issue although I do feel stress can be a factor so yes it is possible. With that being said I would also think something would need to be eaten to see such issues....I'm a little confused on your timeline to be honest. A pill may or may not show on an x-ray it depends how much of it as been digested (the mass of the pill)


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 27, 2009)

It was about 4 weeks ago that I put a vitamin pill in his food. About a week after that I knew he was impacted, so I took him to the vet. The vet gave him an enema and he pooped twice and both times it was really hard. The vet then took an xray to see if he got it all. The xray showed that everything was clear, except for a few small pieces of grit, which the vet assumed was pieces of bone. I on the other hand figured, this must be remenants of the pill. 

I took Trooper home assuming he was all better, but his vent stayed puffy and he kept releasing a smelly fluid and wouldnt eat anything. I thought it must of been an infection, so I took him back to the vet this morning. He had an xray, and this is when the big bright white rock looking object showed lodged in his abdomen. It cant be food, because he hasnt eaten anything solid in 2 weeks. 


Heres what someone else told me
"gall stones form from regular body secretions, kidney stones form usually from high precipitates in the excretions from the kidneys, neither from something swallowed. If your tegu was already impacted before, it is likely there was significant backup of gut contents and that gut motility was already compromised. With gut motility already reduced, there's a good chance that material already present could start reacting (chemically, mechanically) to form a mass, which could further get impacted. This is just one scenario, there could be others. "


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## crimsonrazac (Apr 27, 2009)

Good luck to you and trooper!


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## MMRR - jif (Apr 27, 2009)

Unfortunately the little tegu in the video had to be euthanized this past Saturday after suffering a seizure. She had shown no improvement in her condition even though her bloodwork was fairly normal. She was to be necropsied today or tomorrow so we'll see if that shows anything remarkable. I'm truly saddened by this. I have successfully rehabbed animals in similar condition and she was such a sweet tegu.


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 27, 2009)

Ohhh nooo  So sorry to hear. Thats so sad. I feel your pain :hug 
Its really too bad she didnt get better, I guess she was too far gone. Let us know if you find out anymore information about her condition. It seems that tegus with MBD are very hard to treat as opposed to other lizards. 

I just heard from my vet and hes going to send the xray to some specialists and see what they say, and then hopefully do surgery on Thursday. Heres what he said
"The stone in question was not on his earlier rad.(the xray from 3 weeks ago). There is a small gall stone in both pictures, but very tiny. There is no renal calcification in either rad."

So my tegu has a small gall stone, what does this mean?


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## GunnasGal (Apr 28, 2009)

it may be that what ever vitamin you fed your tegu he could not digest properly and it has a build up of calcim around it. this happens with some foods my friends bearded dragon cannot be fed spinach etc as calcium sticks to high protein things making it undigestable im not sure but think this can happen in tegus too.... i no you arent meant to feed certain things to tegus due to these sorts of problems
i hope your tegu gets better though


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## ZEKE (Apr 28, 2009)

any update about how the surgery today went?


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 28, 2009)

Surgery is postponed until Thursday because my vet was going to send the xray to some specialists today. I will let you know what happens!!!


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## crimsonrazac (Apr 28, 2009)

dragonqueen4 said:


> Surgery is postponed until Thursday because my vet was going to send the xray to some specialists today. I will let you know what happens!!!



Keep us updated! I really hope trooper gets well.


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## ashesc212 (Apr 30, 2009)

Did Trooper have surgery today?


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 30, 2009)

*Surgery Today was a Success *

Thanks to everyone who though of Trooper and wished him well!! 

Surgery went ahead today. Just got the call!! Trooper is ok.. it was a rock in his intestine, so it had to be cut open and removed. Also, he was blocked solid.. extremely constipated, due to the MBD. But.. good news, hes awake and doing good! 

So, I have to be extra careful with him and monitor him very closely to make sure he goes to the bathroom, and if not I will need to bring him in right away to catch it early. My vet said, we will start him on oxbow critical care and a liquid calcium and as his bones get stronger his muscles should start contracting normally again. 

He will also be taking baytril. Not so sure if this is the best antibiotic for him?

Any tips or advice on the special care I should give him in relation to the "after surgery" care?


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## ZEKE (Apr 30, 2009)

thats great news! im so glad to hear that the surgery went well!


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## ashesc212 (Apr 30, 2009)

dragonqueen - I am so happy for you and trooper! His name is so appropriate! He really is a trooper! 

Keep us posted on his recovery.


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## GunnasGal (Apr 30, 2009)

congrats on the good news im glad he is ok.


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## FoxxCola (Apr 30, 2009)

Yay! I hope he recovers quickly!


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## LouDog760 (Apr 30, 2009)

Good new! Lets hope for a speedy recovery!

:grno


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## Tux (Apr 30, 2009)

baytril is a antibiotic as you know, after the treatment you will also want to use acidophilus to re-populate the GI with good bacteria or else you will have serious problems with lack of appetite and digestion, I'm not a fan of any antibiotic that needs an IM injected loading dose but that's just me....I knew he had ate something LOL....damn tegus eating whatever fits in their mouths.


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## jmiles50 (Apr 30, 2009)

Thay's awesome! Keep up w those antibiotics and keep us informed :-D


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## ashesc212 (Apr 30, 2009)

Tux said:


> baytril is a antibiotic as you know, after the treatment you will also want to use acidophilus to re-populate the GI with good bacteria or else you will have serious problems with lack of appetite and digestion, I'm not a fan of any antibiotic that needs an IM injected loading dose but that's just me....I knew he had ate something LOL....xxxx tegus eating whatever fits in their mouths.



Yeah, if you can Pet Authority makes a liquid Acidophilus for lizards, which is sold online at reptilesupply.com. 

My tegu tries to eat rocks every day when we go outside. I end up pulling them out of his mouth in the knick of time.


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 30, 2009)

thx, i will be back at the vet tmw morning, i will see if they have any acidophilus.. reptile supply takes a month to ship supplies to me, thats too long. if the vet doesnt have this product is there anything else you can recommend? 

i have 2 containers of what was removed from him. one container is a rock.. the other container.. your not going to believe it when u see it. .. its so much poop/soil. i will take pics sometime this weekend and post them, 

so i keep him on plantation soil about 4-5 inches high, it keeps the humidity high and he loves to borrow.. obviously hes been eating it, and because of the mbd cant pass it. so i just put him on a towel, with the soil underneath to help with humidity. the towel is taped to the tank, so he cant get under it onto the soil. 

i just noticed, he is now skin and bones.. i need to get him eating and drinking. im so afraid hes going to get sick again.


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## Tux (Apr 30, 2009)

A month jebus, I've spoken to the owner before, maybe I can figure out his supplier. Yogurt with live cultures can help (i'm not sure how tegus handle lactose but it should be ok). My local petsmart actually carries it oddly enough.


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## dragonqueen4 (Apr 30, 2009)

yep, ive ordered bulbs almost a month ago now and still havent gotten them. 

ive just been watching trooper and his breathing is bad.. his little jowls are shaking very quickly and hes taking deep breathes. hes also very thin now.


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## Tux (Apr 30, 2009)

For bulbs in Canada use reptileuv, mops.ca or petsandponds.


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## ashesc212 (Apr 30, 2009)

Tux said:


> My local petsmart actually carries it oddly enough.



You are lucky! I've searched all over the local Petsmarts and Petcos to no avail around here.

Does it take a month because of customs? 

This lady has it:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Meds.html#Acidophiliz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.c ... cidophiliz</a><!-- m --> 

Maybe she can help you out and it would go to a good cause too. If you order it in the very near future, 100% of the proceeds are donated to this beardie (you can see the story on her site to).


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## bubbategu2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Give him Soy yogurt (available at any grocery store) and probiocin paste from the vet. NutriBac is also very good for upset tummy issues. I got it online. And try "Jump-start" caloric supplement & appetite stimulant made by Zilla- you can usually find it at the petstore or online. Good Luck


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## Tux (Apr 30, 2009)

Soy yogurt has the same properties as normal yogurt as far as probiotics go, you still need to find one that has live cultures as the pasteurization kills them so I see no benefit with soy. probiocin isn't needed if you buy yogurt with live beneficial bacteria. NutriBac is also not needed if you are feeding said yogurt, why your recommending multiple probiotics I do not know. jump-start is for those whom don't follow proper feeding habits IMO: list of ingredients apparently (no mention of percentages anywhere)

Corn Syrup, Soybean Oil (Source of LA and ALA), Malt Syrup, Cod Liver Oil (Source of ERA and DMA), Cane Molasses, Methylcellulose, Water, Gelatin By-products, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Sodium Benzoate (Preservative), Manganese, Sulfate, Ferric ammonium Citrate, Thiamin HCI, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate (source of Calcium and Pantothenic Acid), Magnesium Sulfate, Pyridoxine HCI, Vitamin A Palmitate & D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide (Source of Iodine and Potassium), Riboflavin 5-Phosphate Sodium (source of Vitamin B2 and Phosphorus), Folic Acid and Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12).

I still don't get why you would be feeding any foods made by oxbow.


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## bubbategu2 (May 1, 2009)

My vet recommended probiocin and Soy yogurt over cow milk yogurt because it is plant based rather than cows' milk which is not in a Tegu's diet. I was recommending different probiotics because her Tegu just had intestinal surgery and you have to be very careful of what he/she eats right now and how much. I didn't mean to say she should give them all at the same time-I was just suggesting what I had used personally. And the Jump-start, because it's high caloric and easily digestable. She said he was very skinny.


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## Tux (May 1, 2009)

most foods we feed our animals aren't in their natural diets, so long as they can digest them they are fine, the basic point however is that only one probiotic is needed and live culture yogurt does the trick be it soy or cows milk. soybeans aren't in a tegus normal diet either remember.

probiocin isn't needed if it's live culture yogurt. If the gut flora are re-established theirs no need for a supplement of jump-start thats all.


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## ashesc212 (May 5, 2009)

dragonqueen - how is trooper doing with his recovery?


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## EG6 (May 5, 2009)

is trooper doing better since the surgery?


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## laurarfl (May 5, 2009)

There are hundreds of microflora in the human gut even if only 30 or 40 make up the predominant majority. Reptile microflora has not been well-studied, but one iguana study did not even isolate Lactobacillus in the feces. While it may have been shown to be helpful in combating the overgrowth of yeast and correcting pH, I would personally go with a probiotic that offered a few different bacteria vs. one genera. I would think there are quite a few different kinds of microflora in reptile guts, too.

I think this is one of those issues that is a personal call...if you just want to feed yogurt, OK. But if you go for a more complex probiotic, it sure isn't going to be harmful.

Oxbow offers a food (albeit processed) that is semi-solid or liquid, and easily digestible. All those lovely processed sugars sound nasty, but they are designed for a quick blood sugar boost with some vitamins and minerals, not a regular diet. Glucose IV's and feeding tubes are great, too, but I wouldn't want to be sustained on them.  yuk

Short of shaving rodents and throwing them in a blender with some produce, oxbow isn't so bad for an anorexic tegu. :lol:


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## tegusaurus (May 19, 2009)

Tux said:


> A month jebus, I've spoken to the owner before, maybe I can figure out his supplier. Yogurt with live cultures can help (i'm not sure how tegus handle lactose but it should be ok). My local petsmart actually carries it oddly enough.




your store sells yogurt???


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## Tux (May 19, 2009)

:roll: 

laura: any links to that study? Yogurt usually contains more than one bacteria btw. As for shaving rodents, you could avoid the shaving and just blend lol or use alot of fuzzies, ive made plenty of slurries in my day lol


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## CaterpillarGiraffe (May 19, 2009)

Sorry to hear about the Tegu.

If you're in Canada I'd say $500 is pretty good for a full blown surgery.

I'm in Ontario and I payed $600 just to get tests done for my Chameleon who passed away.


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## MizM (May 19, 2009)

So, how is Trooper today? Sending warm wishes his way and hoping he recovers quickly. And hugs for you too... this sort of thing is just as hard on us mommies!!


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