# Question regarding hibernation.



## Skeetzy (Nov 14, 2012)

How long into hibernation is it okay to try and start waking up your tegu? From what I understand the best way to do this is to, in my case, turn the lights back on, and slowly bump the temps and daytime hours back up. My guy has been down for over two months, almost a full month with no lights. I understand they can go down for up to 7 months though. I just wish I could have him up and about.


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## james.w (Nov 14, 2012)

Why not just leave him alone if he wants to hibernate. He will wake up when he is ready.


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## Skeetzy (Nov 14, 2012)

I didn't post asking for an opinion, which you seem to throw out in every thread. I posted asking when it's okay to start warming him back up. 

If you're not gonna answer my question, then keep your opinion elsewhere.


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## james.w (Nov 14, 2012)

I did answer your question. If you want a specific answer, why not tell us what answer you want and then we will know what to tell you. It is ok to warm him up when he wakes up, like I said in my first post, on his terms.


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## Skeetzy (Nov 14, 2012)

No you didn't. You suggested what I should do with MY animal. I didn't ask if it's okay to try and wake him up, I asked how long into it I can try and warm him up. Basically asking if 2 months is too early, because I clearly plan on trying. If I wanted to leave it up to him, I wouldn't have posted a thread. 

I've read, many times, that it is okay to keep them from hibernating, so how could it harm them any trying to wake them up, simply by simulating the end of winter?


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## james.w (Nov 14, 2012)

Anybody that tells you when it is ok to try and wake your tegu up, is just taking guesses. As far as simulating the end of winter, I had two tegus in one cage, temps and lighting kept on and one went down and the other didn't.


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## Skeetzy (Nov 14, 2012)

Which in a way answers my question. Yes, it is okay to turn the lights back on and try to wake him up naturally. If he doesn't come out, oh well, no harm done. If he does, then I'm ecstatic for finally having a chance to see my tegu.


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## james.w (Nov 14, 2012)

Possibly, it is also possible the increase in temps could boost his metabolism and cause him to burn through his fat reserves.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Nov 14, 2012)

_Why,.. why, why would you risk your tegus health trying to bring it out of hibernation when it's obviously not ready yet? When it's time and ready,.. it'll wake up and come out, until then just let it be._


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## Roadkill (Nov 14, 2012)

Various tegus hibernate for various lengths of times, even in the same environment. Trying to bring your tegu out of hibernation is not really that dangerous (except if you promote certain active behaviours but don't provide the environment to support those behaviours), even if they are warmed up and not yet out of the hibernation state, they won't burn up their energy stores super quick and die - this would also be assuming you wouldn't be trying to feed the animal at this time (which I can't understand why someone would do this......). Fully active tegus still physiologically "hibernating" will lose some weight, but nowhere near the same as a resting tegu in a fully "active" physiological state. There's a far greater risk trying to force your tegu to hibernate for longer periods that they aren't prepared for. And I'm fairly certain I'm not just guessing on this....


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## james.w (Nov 14, 2012)

You saying you are "fairly certain" makes me not take what you are saying to serious. Either you know what you are talking about or don't. Have you done much research (hands on) to come to this conclusion?


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## Roadkill (Nov 14, 2012)

I'd like to believe I know what I'm talking about, but I'm humble enough to admit I can be wrong. As for if I've done much hands on research to come to my conclusion, that would depend on what you call "much".


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## james.w (Nov 14, 2012)

I can appreciate that response. I guess "much" can be interpreted to be any amount. How many tegus have you woken up that were hibernating?


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## Roadkill (Nov 14, 2012)

To be honest, I cannot give a concrete number as to how many I have woken up that were hibernating, I haven't kept track of that. All I can say is that I spent about 10 years researching specifically hibernation in tegus, primarily from a physiological standpoint, most of those years in the lab doing things like forcing tegus in and out of hibernation, but also several years in Brasil recording the process from a more natural standpoint. I co-authored the chapter "Overwintering in Tegu Lizards" for the book "Life in the Cold: Evolution, Mechanisms, Adaptation, and Application" for the 12th International Hibernation Symposium in 2004. Perhaps you've read it?


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## james.w (Nov 14, 2012)

I have not read it, but I can take your posts a lot more serious now though.


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## Skeetzy (Nov 14, 2012)

Mine is very tiny right now. Went under Sept 11th, never even got a chance to measure him. I've attached a picture for some size reference. The log is only about a hand size across. It somewhat worries me him going under that size for a long time. I'll be starting a short 8 hour day tomorrow, bumping it up an hour every 3/4 days, the same way I brought him to no lights on. If it doesn't work in like two weeks I'll bring it back down and let him stay under another few months.


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## Roadkill (Nov 14, 2012)

I'm not sure how that would affect the tegu, might work for a rapid emergence. However, keep in mind several things: for one, baby tegus still hibernate in the wild, they aren't that large before they start preparing to hibernate so yours may not be in that much of a dire situation. For another, if you're trying to replicate a natural increase in photoperiod, that would be way off (however, I understand your worry and desire to bring it out of hibernation asap). I can't even think how far south a population would have to be to even experience an 8 hour day (or whether there's tegu populations there)....but as a reference, just below the tropics (so about central South America) the shortest day in winter is only different from the longest day in summer by about 2-3 hours, or in other words, the shortest day is about 10.5-11 hours light. And at that lattitude, the natural change in photoperiod is about 1-2 minutes a day. Not saying you're going to endanger your tegu, just saying it's hard to say how such a drastic change will affect it. All this being said, the one thing I can add with greater certainty is if your tegu is kept in a room with a window to the outside, the light streaming in from your window is a far greater signal to your tegu than anything you are artificially creating in the room. Kind of like trying to talk on your cell phone (set on a rather quiet volume) while at a rock concert. That signal from the window is more intense, more complex, more real than that from any lightbulbs you'll be using, and so you may have strong influence working against you.


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## Skeetzy (Nov 15, 2012)

That's exactly some of the info I was looking for. I'll take that all into consideration with what I do. I appreciate you sharing the knowledge. I wish I had the opportunity to do that research. 

Here's another question for you. How long do they hibernate in the wild/how long is their winter? Been trying to Google it for a few days, but I can't seem to find much.


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## Roadkill (Nov 15, 2012)

That is kind of a difficult question to answer because there really isn't a simple answer to it. For one, I would say it highly depends on what region they're in and I really only have indepth knowledge of a small area. For another, it depends on what you want to call hibernation. Where I was, hibernation averaged about 4-5 months. With that being said, some individuals would pretty much "sleep" the entire period, while other individuals definitely had a "sleep" period that was at max a couple of weeks and then spend the rest of the winter basically basking nearly everyday but then going back to sleep for most of the day. Interestingly though, about the only time of the year that tegus were physiologically "fully active" was for about 3-4 months during breeding season till about when the eggs would hatch. The rest of the year they were either hibernating or gradually depressing their metabolism in preparation for hibernation. I would think most populations further south probably would have had longer hibernation seasons, and those closer to the equator would have shorter, however it seems that hibernation in tegus isn't so much a response to cooler temperatures as it is a response to a season of few resources (I'm not saying that colder temperatures don't drive them to hibernate, but that ultimately the real reason behind the hibernation season is there's little food or water available during this period). So it's quite possible that some populations may not hibernate as long as predicted because of more favourable conditions. For example, one of my colleagues has told me that there's evidently a population of tegus far to the south of where I was doing my research that supposedly don't hibernate at all.


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## BatGirl1 (Nov 15, 2012)

Niles has been flatly refusing any type of food since october yet still comes to the warm side to bask almost on a daily basis.I occasionally offer various foods because it makes me nervous that he is not 'sleeping soundly '...I'm afraid of him using up his reserves.yet he will not touch a thing.i have water available and also spray him when he's out.hopefully this 'basking during hibernation ' is normal and he'll resume eating at the appropriate time (i have read march?) 

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2


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## Skeetzy (Nov 15, 2012)

Roadkill, you are a bundle of information. Once again I appreciate your responses. Got my guy on 10 hour days right now, with only a small(3*) night time temp increase. Since my ceramic heat emitter runs 24/7, that's what's adjusted for temp. This should only bring his day time ambient up to about 80 on the warm side, 75/76 on the cool side. I'll leave him on the 10 hour cycle the entire time, and probably leave the temps right where they're at the entire time. Seems to be more natural, if I read everything correctly. 

He is somewhat exposed to windows. His cage is right up against one, but it's the side of his cage, which the only way he can see that light is through (3) 2" vents. Louver style at that, so very little light seeps through these. The other window is visible through his glass, but that blind is almost never open. I live on the first floor, and it faces a busy parking lot. Don't like people seeing into my room. Might motivate a break in with all my electronics and animal cages lol. But his cage barely receives much of that light, due to its position in relation to the window. I don't think it affects him, but only time will tell here. If it helps any, even during bright day time hours, with the blinds open, it's rather hard to see into his cage. 

Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge. If I'm doing something you, or anyone, sees wrong, let me know. But of course the unsupported claims attacking me because you wouldn't do so with your animal will be ignored. I appreciate facts and true personal experiences over hearsay.


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## laurarfl (Nov 15, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> To be honest, I cannot give a concrete number as to how many I have woken up that were hibernating, I haven't kept track of that. All I can say is that I spent about 10 years researching specifically hibernation in tegus, primarily from a physiological standpoint, most of those years in the lab doing things like forcing tegus in and out of hibernation, but also several years in Brasil recording the process from a more natural standpoint. I co-authored the chapter "Overwintering in Tegu Lizards" for the book "Life in the Cold: Evolution, Mechanisms, Adaptation, and Application" for the 12th International Hibernation Symposium in 2004. Perhaps you've read it?



Yes! I have skimmed it before. I think I will go and give it a deeper read now. I'm so glad to have you here, welcome to the forum. I was thinking of you and the valuable information you could add to this topic.


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## BatGirl1 (Nov 17, 2012)

So I should not be worried about niles not eating and yet still coming out to bask most mornings then...I'm gathering from peoples posts.? Ugh.new tegu mommies and their anxiety... 

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2


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## Skeetzy (Nov 17, 2012)

I'd say just keep an eye on his weight. If he's not thinning out then nothing to worry about really. Different species, but my bearded dragon stopped eating for over a month, maybe even two, before finally settling down and sleeping. He skipped his first winter, so caught me by surprise. I offered food almost daily for awhile, but it was a waste of time.


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## BatGirl1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Yeah I've been trying different things but he's like "nope...get that crap away from me and pick me up ". He still likes to be held briefly then when starts walking around I put him back and he finishes his bask and goes back under his hide....

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2


His tail still looks fat but skin getting really wrinkly so hope sheds soon.he hasn't shed for me yet. I've had him since 9/11/2012. Keep misting too when he comes out to bask.

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2


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## Skeetzy (Nov 26, 2012)

It worked! He's out basking for the first time. I was working in his cage misting and mixing the dirt up, and he wasn't timid of me at all. I acted like he didn't exist and he did the same. Hopefully this lasts longer than today!


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## chitodadon (Nov 26, 2012)

Thats good

from Samsung Galaxy S3


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## laurarfl (Nov 27, 2012)

Awesome Skeetzy!


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## Skeetzy (Nov 27, 2012)

Might have been a fluke. Surprised by how many times he came back out yesterday to bask. But it looks like he poked his head out today in a couple spots so well see tomorrow.


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## ccole93 (Dec 2, 2012)

So it isn't a good idea to wake them up? Mine has been down for a month and I miss him dearly. I want to at least give him some water every week... I read reptiles need it during brumation. He was born this past June. Could I maybe coax him out of it?


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## james.w (Dec 2, 2012)

I don't feel it is a good idea, if they need/want water they will come out for it. You can try to coax him out, some people have been successful by pouring warm water over where they are burrowed.


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## Roadkill (Dec 2, 2012)

It's definitely a good idea to give them water during hibernation. Contrary to what many people think, it appears tegus don't utilize that much of their fat storage during hibernation (metabolising fat would actually generate water as a byproduct). It appears that tegus primarily utilize protein as a metabolic substrate during hibernation, which can generate toxic byproducts especially if not properly hydrated.
If you want your tegu to hibernate, leave them be, provide a water dish to drink if they need it. If you want to try bringing them out of hibernation, then feel free to try waking them up, it isn't going to do any harm from just waking them up. I pick my guys up all the time, will cuddle with them to give them a bit of warmth. In the wild, they frequently wake up and bask during hibernation, it is part of the natural process.


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## james.w (Dec 2, 2012)

I agree THEY will wake up on their own. Of course I haven't done the research you have, but if the animal needs water, I'm sure it will get it as long as it is available.


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## ccole93 (Dec 3, 2012)

I don't know, I just woke him up and he drank for a good five minutes. He got up for a bask and explored his cage for a while but I haven't seen if he's gone back down. If he does I think I'll get him up at least once a week for some water and basking. Brumation is a much milder form of hibernation from what I've read. Thanks for the help, Roadkill!


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## Roadkill (Dec 3, 2012)

No, brumation and reptile hibernation are one and the same, there is no difference. Anyone telling you anything else really don't know what they're talking about.


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## ccole93 (Dec 3, 2012)

Alright. So what's the best way to rouse him? Gradually with lighting or should I dig him out every day?


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## james.w (Dec 3, 2012)

Why not just let him hibernate if that is what he wants to do?


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## TeguBuzz (Dec 3, 2012)

james.w said:


> Why not just let him hibernate if that is what he wants to do?



Im wondering the same thing.


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## ccole93 (Dec 3, 2012)

Because if there's no harm in waking him up I'd rather see him. Thought that was kind of a given. This thread has so far led me to believe that it won't kill or seriously harm him to wake him and Roadkill seems to understand it better than anyone else.


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## Roadkill (Dec 3, 2012)

Personally, I basically do agree that if they want to hibernate, let them do so unless you notice severe weight loss, sinking eyes, or it has been a disturbingly long time. However, that being said, I also know there isn't anything very harmful about bringing them out of hibernation. I have a feeling that this may shorten their lifespan in the long run (think of hibernation as like pressing the pause button) but not in any severe sense. I stress this is JUST an educated guess as at this time I have no concrete data or even anecdotal experience to support this view.

As for rousing them out of the physiological state of hibernation, my feeling is that gradually increasing the photoperiod is the strongest signal they respond to. That being said, I also concomitantly increase temperatures during this process. For my tegus, I try to mimic the natural conditions that I recorded while I was in Brasil: photoperiod adjusted by roughly 1-2 minutes a day, and while temperatures highly fluctuated, my data would seem to suggest that the crux between the hibernation/active state was when temperatures no longer dropped below 23-24 degrees Celsius. So for this, during the arousal period I gradually increase photoperiod by 2 minutes a day (from a minimum of 10.5hL:13.5hD) and while I allow the regular thermal regime to progress (heating during the day, cooling at night), I progress my minimum nightly value from ~18 degrees Celsius upwards by about 1 degree C every 2-3 days until I hit a minimum nightly value of about 27-28 degrees Celsius.


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## laurarfl (Dec 4, 2012)

minutes??? perhaps you meant to type hours?


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## Skeetzy (Dec 4, 2012)

He's said the minutes thing before. Now while I don't think I'll ever do that myself, I agree with that being the most natural for them. But I have everything automated on my cage for a reason. ADD makes it pretty hard to remember to do something as simple as turning the timer up two minutes a day. It'd probably get done twice a week lol


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## Roadkill (Dec 4, 2012)

Yes, MINUTES. These guys don't inhabit the Antarctic, they're rather close to the tropics. So depending on where in South America you are trying to replicate, the difference between the longest day of the summer and the shortest day of the winter is anywhere from about 0hrs to 4hrs. Now lets go for the max, about a 4 hour time change. That changes roughly over 6 months. So, 4hrs = 240minutes, lets roughly say 6 months = 180 days. 240 min/180 days = 1.33 minutes per day.


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## TeguBlake (Dec 4, 2012)

Dang, give you props to that...."tips hat"


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## laurarfl (Dec 4, 2012)

Just clarifying, no need to be testy. 

That's why I like to utilize the natural photoperiod. I will admit that I am probably too lazy and too forgetful to advance my timer 1.33 minutes per day


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## Roadkill (Dec 4, 2012)

Laura, wasn't being testy, just stressing that the change is indeed in minutes. And like you, yes, I'm too lazy to go change the photoperiod by hand by 2 minutes a day. That's why I dropped several hundred on a controller with computer interface so that I could program the changes I wanted and let it do all the work. Technology is grand.


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## laurarfl (Dec 4, 2012)

Yes it it. Wow, I'm trying to convince myself to break down and buy a $250 Solarmeter. 

You are the most dedicated tegu researcher.


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## Roadkill (Dec 4, 2012)

If you're after the UVB measuring one, I think if you order directly from Solarmeter themselves the price is $175 now (I have 2 - they're not as useful for me as I'd wish, but everyone keeps wanting to borrow them....). I'm next thinking on getting the UVC meter but that's still $250 and for something I haven't had a real need for would be an expensive trinket.


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## Skeetzy (Dec 4, 2012)

*Re: RE: Question regarding hibernation.*



Roadkill said:


> Laura, wasn't being testy, just stressing that the change is indeed in minutes. And like you, yes, I'm too lazy to go change the photoperiod by hand by 2 minutes a day. That's why I dropped several hundred on a controller with computer interface so that I could program the changes I wanted and let it do all the work. Technology is grand.



I've seen that controller. It's worth the money? Can it control more than one cage, at two different time zones? It's the last piece of the puzzle to make my cage as automated as I can. Something I've wanted to start a savings for.


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## Roadkill (Dec 6, 2012)

Skeetzy, I utilize several for different reasons, you've kind of hit on one issue that I have. For controlling temperatures and a few other things I've got these:

http://ecozonevivarium.com/products-vivarium-controllers.aspx

They're a bit pricey, but what I like about them is that their electrical outlets are rated for 450W each and while I can set a monthly temperature regime, by engaging one specific function it will transition from one regime to the next in a gradual manner and over a time period that I can assign. These can control more than one enclosure, but for my purposes I use it for controlling different regions of the enclosure (primarily what I consider subterranean zone and "above ground"). This being said, you can use any controller to control more than one cage via the use of power bars, it's a different thing to control more than one cage independently of others. You can also program these with different monthly photoperiod regimes. But this is where these units disappoint me: while you can have a transitional function for the temperature settings, there isn't a transitional function for photoperiod. This irks me as I feel (and want to research the importance of) that the CHANGING of photoperiod, not the length of photoperiod, is what is important in adjusting their biorhythms and hibernation.

So for photoperiod control I use this:

http://aquabiolab.com/en/products/photoperiod_control/index.shtml

A rather pricey device that admittedly doesn't allow for independent control of multiple cages, it allows manipulation of photoperiod like nothing else I've seen at all. You can program it for any region on the planet, or you can create your own stylized year to suit your purpose.


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## Dubya (Dec 6, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> Skeetzy, I utilize several for different reasons, you've kind of hit on one issue that I have. For controlling temperatures and a few other things I've got these:
> 
> http://ecozonevivarium.com/products-vivarium-controllers.aspx
> 
> ...



Uh, that's a mighty fancy gizmo. I use these for everything. I invested all the money saved into buying beer.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685881/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=timer&storeId=10051#.UMDvD4NZWSo


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## Skeetzy (Dec 6, 2012)

Ohhhhh man. Didn't even realize they made controllers that awesome. I need to start digging again and find the link for the one I was thinking of. But you definitely just made me start a savings list for my tegu. Have a feeling this income check will be going to those. Last year's was the cage hahah. 

Here I was thinking I made my cage perfect. I use a Zoo Med Hygrotherm to control my temperatures and humidity. While it makes my life a whole lot easier as far as keeping humidity up and never worrying about temps, it lacks in many simple areas. The light sensor to put the device in night time mode, is on the controller, which is not meant to go in the cage. Greatly defeats the purpose if you ask me. And it doesn't do nearly half the things those controllers do. I feel just as excited about those controllers as a I did when I got my tegu hahah. I love technology.

Now while I would like them to control two different regions, I'm really only concerned about my tegu. It would be cool to have it control my beardies cage too, but not as important. I like your idea of controlling two separate areas inside the cage.


Almost forgot to add, back to the original topic of my tegu. He's been poking his head out. No idea when though. I honestly think at night. I usually watch the cage all day, since I'm in between jobs at the moment, and it's in my room. He leaves holes in the surface of the dirt going down to where he sleeps. I usually move the top layer around to cover it back up, so I can keep track, but he always makes another. Just wish he'd come out to bask or eat, instead of peaking.


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## chitodadon (Dec 6, 2012)

Give him time to come out put some food by his hide

from Samsung Galaxy S3


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