# ground turkey



## Adzi (Mar 3, 2008)

I no Tegu Love eating ground turkey and its very good for them but where in england can you buy it and what substitues can you buy insted of ground turkey?

At the moment mine lives on a range of fruit and veg but mainly mice!

Any suggestions to other food (meat or veg)?


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## Lexi (Mar 3, 2008)

You can feed them hamburger meat too.. but its very fatty..
I dont know if Lamb is healthy but i fed mine lamb last night and they loved it.. I know pork is bad for them.. Ground turkey should be in your super markets..or any store you can by ground beef.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't think ground turkey is all that great. There are better, less fattening foods to feed. Whole food prey items (bones, organs fur, ect.) is the best, because it is a well rounded meal with lots of vitamins/calcium ect.

Ground turkey gained popularity when a mixture was concocted and deemed "The San Diego Zoo" diet (originally designed for ackies monitors). Truth be told, it didn't even come from San Diego Zoo, it came from the LA Zoo, and San Diego Zoo and the guy who created it even admit it's probably not the best staple (I'll pull my resources together to back that claim up, it's something I've heard from reptile keepers I know and respect). Originally it probably had a lot of different ingredients, but it has now been abstracted to ground turkey, bone meal, and pulverized vitamins. Nutritional studies show that vitamins that come in their purest, most natural form are healthiest for us. That's why I always feed full bodied animals. Will tegus eat ground turkey? Of course, it's fatty and delicious! A meal like that might be good for a treat, as they wouldn't eat pure meat on a daily basis in the wild. But it's too easy to digest, and if fed constantly might lead to obesity. Leaner than burger meat, true, but what isn't?

Here's some stuff you can try besides mice:

-Crayfish
-Squid
-Herring
-Shrimp (from Asian Markets)
-Roaches
-Earthworms
-Crabs
-Clams
-Locusts

and I could go on.

Variety is nice, but you shouldn't just mix it up for the heck of it. Some foods are better than others, and you should research the fat, protein, calcium contents of the foods before you feed. Mice are o.k., but I like seafood better because it's very high in protein and omega-3 fatty acids. Tegus would probably eat a lot of large amount of bugs in the wild as well as frogs and other small prey when they get the chance, so that's something to consider. I know people who feed wild frogs with no problems. I've never done it. I think we've polluted our earth beyond recognition, and stay away from wild caught foods for those reasons. Never ever feed toads, they have nasty secretions.

Anyway, that's enough typing for now.

Cheers

-Chris


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## angelrose (Mar 3, 2008)

:welc Adzi, crickets, roaches and superworms.
for treats you can use eggs, potatoes (cooked) and clean fish.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 3, 2008)

I know this may be hard for you, but if you are going to feed eggs, fertile ones would be the healthiest. But if you're not in a rural area, the chances of that are slim.


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## VARNYARD (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't see the too much fat that you are talking about in turkey. However, some of the food items you feed as a staple could cause problems. Squid, Herring, Shrimp (from Asian Markets), Crabs, and Clams. All of these are very high in salt, this can cause many problems in reptiles that are not use to a very high salt content in thier diet. Ground turkey is a much better choice in my opinon. 

As for Locusts, they have been known to hold high counts of a whole range of toxins.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't know, it just seems unnatural to me for them to have bulk meat products. It just seems outside their diet. I would feed roaches as my staple, but that's me.

As the old saying goes, if it works, it works.


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## Lexi (Mar 3, 2008)

what about lamb?


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## VARNYARD (Mar 3, 2008)

I see nothing at all wrong with feeding lamb, I also feed ground deer meat.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 3, 2008)

One other thing not taken into account is the ease of digestion. Flat out meat is really easy to process and absorb. You don't burn very many calories eating it. Legs, fur, bones ect. take work to synthesize. And, you're comparing meat products to other meat products. It is the lesser of those evils, but I will always be a proponent of whole prey items for the naturally occurring vitamin content as well as the other points I listed above.


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## Lexi (Mar 3, 2008)

I do feed small rats too.. but i mix fruits and veggies into different meats.. other wise my B&W wont eat them.. But my reds will eat anything you put in front of them.


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## redtail2426 (Mar 3, 2008)

Seafood is also high in phosphorous.


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## angelrose (Mar 3, 2008)

shiftylarry, why would it be hard for me :?:


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## shiftylarry (Mar 3, 2008)

Why would what be hard for you?


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## angelrose (Mar 3, 2008)

shiftylarry said:


> I know this may be hard for you, but if you are going to feed eggs, fertile ones would be the healthiest. But if you're not in a rural area, the chances of that are slim.



well I dunno, I mentioned eggs


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## shiftylarry (Mar 3, 2008)

Not directed at you. It was directed at the original poster. I figure if he/she had trouble getting ground turkey, it wouldn't be easy to find fertile eggs.


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## VARNYARD (Mar 3, 2008)

shiftylarry said:


> I don't know, it just seems unnatural to me for them to have bulk meat products. It just seems outside their diet. I would feed roaches as my staple, but that's me.
> 
> As the old saying goes, if it works, it works.



Well most ground turkey is a mixture of white and dark turkey OR all dark turkey. Ground turkey is manufactured from whole muscle pieces such as the drumsticks, thighs, neck, etc., with skin and adhering fat, in natural proportions. The fat content of ground turkey ranges from 7 percent to 17 percent. A higher fat content indicates more dark turkey is part of the mixture. I like the higher fat content, fat breaks down as raw energy and the fat stores in the animal. Tegus hibernate up to 7 months; they need these reserves to have a healthy hibernation.

Turkeys are fowl; I would think that birds make up a good part of the natural diet. Tegus are not beyond raiding nests and have been documented doing this. I do admit that ground turkey does not have feathers or bone, but it does have good protein and fat content. 

I will also add, a diet of low fat and high protein will cause loose stools; the fat is needed for a balanced diet, and is energy in the raw form. I also do not suggest feeding only ground turkey; it is a staple meal, but only once or twice a week. Rodents, chicks, ducklings, fish, liver, eggs, and some fruit make up the total staple diet, not ground turkey alone. Fat is needed in the diet; this is a must in the maintenance of a healthy animal.

I am also not a fan of pre-made diets, like reptile links, monitor diet, Can Ã?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?Â¢Ã?Æ?Ã?Â¢Ã?Â¢Ã¢â??Â¬Ã?Â¡Ã?â??Ã?Â¬Ã?Æ?Ã¢â?¬Å¡


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## angelrose (Mar 3, 2008)

:thyo very much Bobby :-D this is very helpful :-D 
do you have a caresheet of a certain diet you feed them in a week
(I didn't see one in the forums :roll: )


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## VARNYARD (Mar 3, 2008)

I do not have the exact amount of each item; this would be based on the age and size of the animals. I give mine a varied diet and give them a little something each day from the food groups. One rodent, one chick or duckling, ground turkey, liver, eggs, beef hearts, chicken gizzards, some fruit and fresh fish one or more of these items each day. But it is not on a regular routine; I just mix it up and give a wide variety.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 3, 2008)

Bobby, I know you know what you're doing. You have obviously thought this out. I guess my problem is that I've seen a number of obese tegus that have been fed only raw turkey, and no insects veggies, fruit ect. If you have a tegu on the schedule you're suggesting, they'd be fine. The problem is that people just don't understand how a tegus diet should be balanced. I think a lot of people want to see they're tegu eat meat 24/7. Some kind of macho thing I guess (another reason why I liked your video post about not feeding live foods) I'm with you 150% on the canned food stuff. Most of the ingredients are just filler.


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## MMRR - jif (Mar 4, 2008)

I have personally seen a friends Tegus become unhealthy because they were fed a primarily ground turkey diet that included no supplementation. I will feed ground turkey mixed with egg, fruits and vegetables a couple of times per month but no more often than that. I do feed turkey giblets and necks on occasion, also beef heart, venison, chicks and quail. They also get iguana eggs when in season.  

Once in a blue moon I will purchase a couple of cans of Wysong canned dog food to feed as a treat. This food comes in several varieties including beef, chicken, turkey, duck, lamb, venison, and rabbit. The ingredients listed on the can, for example for the rabbit, reads "whole rabbit, water". All of the tegus and the monitors love it but it is a treat only.


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## VARNYARD (Mar 4, 2008)

shiftylarry said:


> Bobby, I know you know what you're doing. You have obviously thought this out. I guess my problem is that I've seen a number of obese tegus that have been fed only raw turkey, and no insects veggies, fruit ect. If you have a tegu on the schedule you're suggesting, they'd be fine. The problem is that people just don't understand how a tegus diet should be balanced. I think a lot of people want to see they're tegu eat meat 24/7. Some kind of macho thing I guess (another reason why I liked your video post about not feeding live foods) I'm with you 150% on the canned food stuff. Most of the ingredients are just filler.



Well I do not think that most of the ones you are talking about are obese at all. I think you are trying to compare monitors to tegus, and there is no way this can be done. Monitors are not tegus, they are much more streamline. It is like comparing greyhounds to bull dogs, bulldogs do not have the same build as a greyhound, and if you did starve them down to that size they would be very unhealthy. Tegus are the same way; they are not streamline and are not monitors. Tegus are wide broad massive animals, with a thick build. Or you could compare corn snakes with blood pythons, the bloods are not built like the corns.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 4, 2008)

> Tegus are wide broad massive animals, with a thick build. Or you could compare corn snakes with blood pythons, the bloods are not built like the corns.


I know there is a difference, but tegus can get obese too. It's just not as easy to recognize unless it's pretty bad.

I think you can agree that an animal fed nothing but meat would have problems with weight, skin, and overall health.


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## Lexi (Mar 4, 2008)

Yeah Reds need fruit to keep their skin healthy...


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## rebeccaej (Mar 28, 2008)

A few of the turkey companies are coming out with 99% fat free turkey. With only 1% fat, I think it is probably the lowest in fat you can get in a carnivorous diet. I bought some last week and have been using it, both in my own food and for my tegu, and it seems to work great.

While I know many people disagree, I also feed wet cat food once or twice a week. I like the Meow Mix brand, as it only has about 2% fat in it. I've been using it for months and my tegu loves the stuff.

I actually was in San Diego this past weekend and got into a long conversation with a reptile keeper and breeder that works at the reptile house at the Zoo. He said that while the "SDZ Diet" was used a bit in the seventies, it was never made up of only turkey and calcium, but of a lot of supplementary foods as well. The turkey was also not the ground turkey that you buy at the store, but whole turkeys thrown in to a meat grinder, bone and organs included, which is a complete diet. He also said that they don't use that any more, they have developed a new food, made from a blend of poultry, pork, fish, and other nutrients. The food is dried and looks like dog kibble, but is served to all the zoo's monitors (except the Komodo dragons, that would be too expensive for such a large lizard) after being soaked in water for a half hour. He gave me a bag and I've been feeding it to my tegu and I have no complaints. Once it is soaked in warm water it is soft enough for her to swallow and it seems to really get her feeding response going!


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## shiftylarry (Mar 28, 2008)

Well, you're right about the SDZ diet. As you can see, it is much more complex than just ground turkey, vitams, and bone meal.

In terms of the cat food thing, you couldn't have picked a worse food to feed. Especially "meow mix" it is full of cheap fillers and horrible for your tegu. Heck, I wouldn't even feed that to my cat it's so bad.


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## Lexi (Mar 28, 2008)

I can see why some people think it is ok to feed cat food.. In Burts care sheet for his B&W's he says if is fine...and he is a big breeder..so people believe him... I always thought that dog/cat food can lead to liver problems and death.


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## angelrose (Mar 28, 2008)

:chin I follow you guys so far but now I have to know how can you tell if your tegu is obese :?: any pics :?: and ...


I am confused when it comes to colombians :?: they do not hibernate and they eat meat or let me just say Angel will eat all kinds of meat (but no mice anymore) and if I try to sneak some in there (chop it all together) she will take a bite and walk away :roll:


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## Lexi (Mar 28, 2008)

See to me these pics of Red tegus seem to be on the heffty side to me.. They skin looks way to tight on them... But to tell you the truth , i dont kno what a "fat" tegu looks like.. Because everyone on here seems to take amazing care of them. But Angelrose your col. Tegu looks fine (if thats a recent pic of him/her you posted)









The pic above isnt a "fat" or Obese tegu.. but it looks to me to be on the hefty side.


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## shiftylarry (Mar 28, 2008)

Maybe some high end brands of dog/cat food such as "solid gold", which are holistic and free of harmful additives might be o.k., but any regular old dog food you'd find in the supermarket wont cut it. They contain items like "chicken byproduct" that have been deemed unsuitable for human consumption by the FDA.


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## angelrose (Mar 28, 2008)

Lexi wow, that skin is tight and I have not seen a tegu looking like that I would agree with being hefty. thank you.
all the pics of everybody were just taken during last weekend. 

I am getting a good picture now of what an obese reptile looks like (I am working on my sav). :roll:


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## Lexi (Mar 28, 2008)

Yeah like i said i dont know if they are obese or not..But they look big to me..
And your Sav is a big boy!!!! He must be in heaven.


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## Mvskokee (Mar 28, 2008)

in my experience ground turkey is kinda messy and it makes the poop loose and very stinky i dont recomend it


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## rebeccaej (Mar 30, 2008)

shiftylarry said:


> Well, you're right about the SDZ diet. As you can see, it is much more complex than just ground turkey, vitams, and bone meal.
> 
> In terms of the cat food thing, you couldn't have picked a worse food to feed. Especially "meow mix" it is full of cheap fillers and horrible for your tegu. Heck, I wouldn't even feed that to my cat it's so bad.



I did a ton of research on different brands of cat food and tried a bunch of them out. Meow mix is just chunks of fish and poultry in little bite sizes. There is also practically no fat (1.8% in most varieties). I feed it about once a week, maybe twice depending on the week, and I haven't seen any problems with it. I know a few people that also keep them that use it as a supplement. I also drain it, first, so she eats the meat and not the watery preservatives in the amount it is packaged in (though of course she still gets some, but preservatives don't cause problems in any animal... really).

As far as being suitable for human consumption... no pet food is. That is why it all says "not for human consumption" on the label, because it is intended for animals. Chicken byproduct is chicken parts that people don't usually eat... such as organs. It happens, though, that while we don't think they taste the best, they are the healthiest part! They aren't labeled for people, though, because they aren't handled in a way that would make them sanitary enough to be served to people. They are still clean, though, and no problems arise from feeding it to any animal.


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## tupinambis (Mar 30, 2008)

Whole prey items are certainly more nutritional than meats. When talking about one whole vertebrate prey to the next, nutrition varies little, but other things do. Fur can be a major problem for tegus if their husbandry isn't ideal, and has even been ascribed to causing impaction in some cases. 
Meats are similar, in that one meat source (chicken, pork, beef, turkey, etc.) show very little difference from one to the other unless you're talking about regular grind to extra lean. However, the one thing that turkey MAY have going against it is they tend to have a high degree of medications used on them to keep them healthy. So much so that lately I've been spotting a number of specialist butcher's shops advertising medication-free turkey. Something to think about.
Lastly, the myth on fertilized eggs should really be put to rest. There's a lot of people spouting that fertilized eggs are healthier than unfertilized. Not true. The reason there is concern over eggs is the compound avidin, which is present in the egg white. It binds to the compound biotin, which is present in the yolk and is essential for physiological processes. If it is bound to avidin, the biotin-avidin complex is not readily absorbable. Fertilizing the egg has been thought to get rid of the avidin. This is rather false. Fertilizing the egg makes the fetus form, and as the fetus develops, this slowly uses up the avidin. So unless people are feeding fertilized eggs that have pretty much developed into chicks inside the egg, a fresh fertilized egg will be just as nutritious as an unfertilized egg. However, heat will denature the avidin. Soft boil your eggs and you will have a biotin-rich, avidin-free nutritious meal.


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## Aranha (Mar 31, 2008)

Hmm ive put my tegus on a new diet of green salad mixed with salmon and cod (gently cooked). Good or bad diet?


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## angelrose (Mar 31, 2008)

tupanambis, thank you again for breaking it all down and taking the time.


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## CaseyUndead (Mar 31, 2008)

If Bobby uses ground turkey with his beautiful tegus, then it sounds fine to me!


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## i0r (Apr 1, 2008)

We don't have ground turkey here in Argentina either.....and everyones saying they use ground turkey as staple food, and tbh i would love to as well. But i cant. We do however have turkey burgers.....but i'm not sure if it would be safe to feed her that because of it's ingredients.
Ther ingredients are: Turkey meat, water, hydrogenous vegetal fat, texturized soya protein, salt, milk powder, onion powder, white apple vinegar, rosemary extract, sodium lactate (INS 325), sodium polyphosphate (INS 452i), oregano aroma, natural white and black pepper aromas.

Would it be ok to feed her that??


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## shiftylarry (Apr 1, 2008)

I'd be worried about the pepper, the sodium, the vinergar, and the onion powder if that answers your question.


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## ApriliaRufo (Apr 1, 2008)

I make my own tegu food on off days. Depending on what I have available I have a few recipes that I have made especially for them and my tegus enjoy them. You must keep in mind that in my house we do not eat anything that wasn't hand raised or completely farmed like it was in the beginning. Only organics at our house. I'll look for the others but here's one.

4 ounces of 7% fat Extra Lean Sirloin Ground (150cal/8g fat/22g protein)
2 soft boiled eggs
1/2 mango diced to 1/4"
2 ounces of mashed russel potato (this does not mean quick spuds or any of that BS it means Mashed Potato)
1/2 banana diced to 1/4"

I mix it all by hand and serve it once or twice a week. You would be very surprised at how it smells and if you want to on the side

you don't boil the eggs, skip the mango, and add some home made bread crumbles... Add some Minced garlic, 1 tsp of brown sugar, crushed black pepper, and sea salt, throw it in the oven and you've got the best meatloaf in town. Yes the banana stays in, it's different, but the outcome comes out nicely, just make sure you adjust the ingredients to a people size and up the meat.


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## Little Wise Owl (Apr 3, 2008)

> (another reason why I liked your video post about not feeding live foods)



Where is this video? I'd like to see it.


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