# Can a tegu do fine without whole prey?



## Raicardoso (Aug 12, 2013)

I don't have a tegu yet, i've been doing excessive research before i buy one. One thing i learned(maybe ) is that whole prey is important because of the calcium in the bones? I can't see myself feeding rats or quail. Maybe F/T rats but not quail. Can a tegu be healthy still without that whole prey?


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## chelvis (Aug 12, 2013)

You will have to make sure that it has a varied diet, so the answer is yes but with work. Whole prey isn't just about the calcium in bones, its the vitamins in the organ, the iron in the blood, the fiber in the skin and fur... etc. Basically you will have to create a balanced whole diet for your tegu. 

Now the upside is that it does not mean feeding live, in fact F/T is safer for the tegu and often times healthier and easier. Tegus tend not to be picky eaters. There are also whole ground dog diets that tegus will eat. A whole ground is when they ground the whole animals (quail, rabbit, mice, rat etc) instead of just the meat. Many people on the form use http://www.hare-today.com/ to get their whole ground. 

Hope this helps you a bit.


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## Roadkill (Aug 12, 2013)

The fibre in the fur/feathers of prey is not digestive fibre, or in other words it won't help in the digestive process. It is too long and non-soluble, and it in fact tends to block up the intestinal passage (ie. impaction) in conditions of suboptimum husbandry.


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## Skeetzy (Aug 12, 2013)

I too have an issue with feeding whole prey. Well alive whole prey. I can't doom another animal to its death, I feel wrong about it. I don't look down upon others who do, I just can't deal with the squeaking lol. I purchase F/T mice from my local pet store as a part of my tegus diet. The other part is different meats from hare-today.com. 

My tegu was barely a foot, and super small when he woke up from hibernation, 4 and a half months ago. He's now well over 3 feet and growing fast. He sheds perfectly and seems very healthy. This is with feeding him the meat from hare 5 days a week, and whole prey 2 days a week. I supplement the hare today meat with 1 tbsp of calcium powder with no d3 per pound. I also try to offer fruits as often as possible. I got a very picky eater when it comes to fruits so that isn't too often.


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## Raicardoso (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the quick and helpful response!
Chelvis- So does whole ground meat have pretty much the same nutritional value as a whole prey meal? Or what would be the difference? Some extra calcium dusting on the ground meat? I also remember seeing some thread about a person being concerned with the bone pieces in their meat from hare-today being too big and dangerous for their tegu. That may have been coarse meat though.

Roadkill- Do you skin your animals then? 

Skeetzy- How much ( in terms of weight) does your tegu eat of that hare-today meat? And do you have it prepared before? Like you said you have 1 tbsp of calcium powder without d3 per pound, do you have it already all prepared in a bag or something and then when it's feeding time you take it out or you just prepare it when you need it?


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## Tannaros (Aug 12, 2013)

Raicardoso said:


> Roadkill- Do you skin your animals then?



I believe he simply meant to point out that the fur, combined with improper husbandry, actually produces a negative effect rather than the desirable one commonly associated with "whole" foods.



Roadkill said:


> The fibre in the fur/feathers of prey is not digestive fibre, or in other words it won't help in the digestive process. It is too long and non-soluble, and it in fact tends to block up the intestinal passage (ie. impaction) *in conditions of suboptimum husbandry*.


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## jtrux (Aug 12, 2013)

I fed mine one hopper but don't plan on doing it again. If the diet is complete elsewhere, it's not needed.


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## Raicardoso (Aug 12, 2013)

Tannaros said:


> I believe he simply meant to point out that the fur, combined with improper husbandry, actually produces a negative effect rather than the desirable one commonly associated with "whole" foods.



Makes sense. Brain fart >


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## Roadkill (Aug 12, 2013)

> I believe he simply meant to point out that the fur, combined with improper husbandry, actually produces a negative effect rather than the desirable one commonly associated with "whole" foods.


Basically, yes. Fur, hair, nails, these are all keratin and tegus (or any vertebrate) cannot digest keratin. Digestive fibre is fibre that is soluble and helps gut motility. Fur is NOT this type of fibre. It can lead to impaction, but just because your tegu ate a mouse/rat/etc. doesn't mean it _will_ become impacted. Too many people think impaction is due to something consumed, when (in exception of large, undigestible items) in reality impaction is usually a symptom of poor health in the first place. No, I do not skin rodents that I feed to my tegus. However, I make sure to use abundant greens and fruits when I make 'mash', AND I use digestive fibre supplement in my 'mash'.


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## Raicardoso (Aug 12, 2013)

I remember a very nice list being posted on the forums of good foods to feed the tegu a long time ago, but i can't find it anymore. Anyone happen to have it?


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## chelvis (Aug 12, 2013)

Hair and feather have been shown to help with solid fecal rather then runny. Is it digestible no but its is passable. Many impactions are due to dehydration combined with low temps or ingestion of hard undigestible objects like wood. Many animals will pass fur with little issues same with feather.


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## Roadkill (Aug 12, 2013)

> Hair and feather have been shown to help with solid fecal rather then runny.


I'd be very surprised if you could back this claim up with a peer reviewed article.

You are right that healthy animals can typically pass fur with little issue. However, fur has often been a complicating factor in animals having health issues. Just like not all cats have issues with hairballs, same deal here.


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## chelvis (Aug 13, 2013)

You are right that I may not be able to back this up with an article at this time, I bet there is one out there. Having worked with nurmous reptiles, and mammalian reptiles I am talking from personal experience. When I give the wolves I currently work with a whole deer they eat almost everything except the largest bones, comparing their poop to that after they get a skinned deer is like night or day. Same with the beef and tigers, lions and bobcats. Bone also affects this but like I said in these cases it was just the hide that was removed. 

I see the same thing with the tegus. When I give Bosco and Bucky their rats and mice the poop quality is much more solid then when they get thier chicken wings and quails. From a richness and fat content the mice and rats are higher and should cause more lose stool then the chicken or quail which is just meat and bone. 

Basically what I am trying to say is reptiles evolve to eat almost anything. If you well tegus wouldn't be eating that much small vertebrates and birds out in the wild (I agree) they would still be eating lots on invertebrates that have hard cariton shells and exo-sckeletons. Those have the same composition as hair, fur and feather and yet tegus have no problem passing them. 

I am not saying that too much fur won't block up a tegu, but I honestly think that its blamed in most cases where its not a factor. Its also why I say a varied diet is best not just mice and rats.


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## Raicardoso (Aug 13, 2013)

So what do you guys think a good feeding schedule is? different ground meat/ veggies and fruits ( if they accept it, i know a lot of tegus don't) 5 days of the week and the other 2 whole prey?


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## jtrux (Aug 13, 2013)

I feed mine daily with small meals. The only thing I feed are tilapia chunks, ground turkey, chicken hearts, chicken livers, eggs, tortoise mazuri (vegetable matter) and I dust all of it. I wouldn't feed whole prey more than every other week.


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## chelvis (Aug 13, 2013)

My adults get mice once a week and ground rabbit twice a week, veggies and fruits mixed into the ground rabbit. The baby tegu gets what ever she will eat and as much as she will eat. When Bucky was smaller I would give her three mice a week (size of mice depended on her size), ground rabbit, shrimp, quail, eggs etc... anything she would eat until around a year of age.


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## Deac77 (Aug 13, 2013)

Why consider a animal you don't feel comfortable feeding....can it be done without? yes, Is it easy? No. Are there risks? Yes

I'd considered getting a blue tongue or something you don't need whole prey on?


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## jtrux (Aug 13, 2013)

Just buy the ground up rabbits, can't recall where you get them, but if you're worried about providing a full meal that would be a relevant solution. Also, whole fish would be a good choice as well. Whole prey doesn't necessarily mean mammal.


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## jtrux (Aug 13, 2013)

But like I said, I don't offer them to mine ( I did once but don't anymore ) and he's doing fine. I offer mine a prepared food called Mazuri, they make several types..tortoise, omnivore and crocodile. They are intended to be a complete food source for the implied animals. I offer it to my tegu daily and he eats it right up. It's a helluva lot cheaper and easier to feed than all the other choices out there. I do feed other stuff but this makes up the majority of his diet.


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## chelvis (Aug 14, 2013)

I personally don't like given them too much Mazuri, lots of grains which most reptiles don't do a good job digesting and can cause an increase in gas. Even for the wolves we don't feed them just Mazuri, they get the kibble but also whole deer, whole cow, whole chicken... see where this is going.


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## jtrux (Aug 14, 2013)

We'll see how it goes, I haven't noticed anything negative from it. He gets lots of other stuff but his diet is probably 40% Mazuri and he's done well so far. It's an excellent vehicle for calcium powder, i'll mix it in and he eats every bit of it.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Aug 14, 2013)

_Tegus can be fed other whole prey besides rats and quail. If it's just those you have an issue with then no problem but if it's actually feeding whole prey that's the problem then I would advise against getting an animal you don't fell comfortable providing a proper diet for._


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## Tannaros (Aug 14, 2013)

Deac77 said:


> I'd considered getting a blue tongue or something you don't need whole prey on?



Because they totally don't need it either.


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## Raicardoso (Aug 14, 2013)

I just have a problem with LIVE prey like mice and quail. I'd be fine with F/T mice/rats. I'd also be fine with fish. What else classifies as whole prey?


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## Deac77 (Aug 14, 2013)

Any whole animal is whole prey lol

I feed crawfish, baby rabbits, quail, chicken, cichlids, rats, mice, catfish, talapia, soft shell crab, hamster, Guinea pigs, gerbils, baby finchs, whole adult finchs, ect ect, all are dead/frozen never anything alive 

All the "pet animals" are excess from Friends breeding stock.


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## Tannaros (Aug 14, 2013)

Raicardoso said:


> I just have a problem with LIVE prey like mice and quail. I'd be fine with F/T mice/rats. I'd also be fine with fish. What else classifies as whole prey?



"Whole prey" a term that I'm beginning to become fed up with - is essentially any meal that consists of ALL components of an animal, ie. bones, organs, liver, etc.


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## Deac77 (Aug 14, 2013)

Tannaros said:


> Because they totally don't need it either.



Whole mammalian prey isn't recommended for bts, I don't think the op of a problem with insects


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## Tannaros (Aug 14, 2013)

Deac77 said:


> Whole mammalian prey isn't recommended for bts, I don't think the op of a problem with insects



Annnnd that's because mice are highly fatty. The same reason many enthusiasts prefer to avoid rodents. BTS can certainly eat them with no real ill effects, if given in moderation just the same as any other diet.

It's a large error to simply say they do not require whole foods when compared to tegus.


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## Deac77 (Aug 14, 2013)

Not really many do just fine on it, mine have never had a whole item other than inverts and earth worms


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## Tannaros (Aug 15, 2013)

Deac77 said:


> Not really many do just fine on it, mine have never had a whole item other than inverts and earth worms



Yeah, and many tegus do just fine without whole prey. Same as Savannah monitors, they like it nice and dry with plenty of rodents coming their way.

I should note that the last statement there was completely sarcastic. However, your mentality seems similar to many hobbyists around the world - and just because something is alive does not mean it's thriving.

The major caveat here being that blue tongues are notable scavengers.


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## Deac77 (Aug 15, 2013)

Haha sure thing killer  you know nothing about my mentality on animals obviously.

I've even around to many bts thy were over weight to the point of being sick, most with gout, because keepers fed more whole prey than anything else.

You obviously know everything about everything and are 100xs better than every keeper, should I bow now?


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## Tannaros (Aug 15, 2013)

Deac77 said:


> Haha sure thing killer  you know nothing about my mentality on animals obviously.
> 
> You obviously know everything about everything and are 100xs better than every keeper, should I bow now?



Right, because that's exactly what I was saying?

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I frequently ask others for their own experiences - and often find out I was wrong about something. More than once I've been corrected on this very board. I just get tired of people literally regurgitating information and preaching it to others with no factual documentation on their own behalf supporting it, or not even knowing where the initial notion came from and how it's grown into the idea it is now.



Deac77 said:


> Not really *many do just fine* on it, *mine* have never had a whole item other than inverts and earth worms



Anecdotal evidence is the only evidence worth looking at!



Deac77 said:


> I've even around to many bts thy were over weight to the point of being sick, most with gout, because keepers fed more whole prey than anything else.



Because feeding their animal a variety of mammalian, aves, ichthyes, crustacea, and insects most assuredly led to their pet's health condition...Yeah, uh-huh, and it's so easy to manually balance a diet consisting of various ground meats and cat food!...yep.

You just pidgeon-holed feeding a varied diet of organisms in their entirety to non-stop feeding a lizard mice, with subpar husbandry to boot.

My point is your view seems very eerily similar to that of the mass mentality of reptile owners all over.


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## Deac77 (Aug 15, 2013)

Tannaros said:


> Right, because that's exactly what I was saying?
> 
> I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, and I frequently ask others for their own experiences - and often find out I was wrong about something. More than once I've been corrected on this very board. I just get tired of people literally regurgitating information and preaching it to others with no factual documentation on their own behalf supporting it, or not even knowing where the initial notion came from and how it's grown into the idea it is now.
> 
> ...




Think what you want, my info, not that I have to explain myself to you, is from case studies, text books, internships, and personal research on different food items items nutritional content in collegiate studies. You know nothing of my education. I can assure my view on reptile husbandry isn't even remotely similar to the mass.


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## Tannaros (Aug 15, 2013)

Deac77 said:


> Think what you want, my info, not that I have to explain myself to you, is from case studies, *text books*, internships, and* personal research* on different food items items nutritional content in collegiate studies. You know nothing of my education. I can assure my view on reptile husbandry isn't even remotely similar to the mass.



Ha. Okay, sure thing.

I suppose I will agree to disagree.


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## Skeetzy (Aug 20, 2013)

Raicardoso said:


> Skeetzy- How much ( in terms of weight) does your tegu eat of that hare-today meat? And do you have it prepared before? Like you said you have 1 tbsp of calcium powder without d3 per pound, do you have it already all prepared in a bag or something and then when it's feeding time you take it out or you just prepare it when you need it?



I realize I'm late on this, but just now seeing it. Someone might have answered you too. 

I use the Zip lock portion freezer bags, and the zip lock air tight freezer bags. I portion a small fistful of meat with the portion bags, roll the bag, and put between 8-12 in the bigger bag. The gallon bags use a little hand pump to get them airtight, so much less freezer burn. 

I buy the 5lb packages of meat, so what I do is put the whole package in a pot, add 5 tbsp of calcium, and 5 tbsp of cod liver oil, and mix it all up. Then I portion everything, and freeze it. I take one bag out every morning and thaw it in the fridge. By the time I'm home it's thawed and ready to serve.


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## Renske (Aug 20, 2013)

I do not feed whole pray at all. I never feed rats, mice or chicks. I buy sausage of cut meat, bones or meat and bones. I buy it at a zoo food website for zoo animals but you can also buy it for dogs.
It looks like this:





But i feed also this:



All kind of fruit







Fresh water fish




Frog legs








I also feed them eggs.

I think my animals are realy healty and happy. I also breed them.































If you feed them wrong the eggs look crap. 

Also good uvb is extreemly important. Not an 10.0 or other energy saving crap but the real sun or a uvb like bright sun uv, powersun or megaray.


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