# Free-RangeTegus



## tresh (Feb 23, 2013)

So I've caught a lot (and I do mean A LOT) of crap from people for how I keep my tegus. I've got two of them, big happy healthy adults, and they're both free-range in my apartment. 

Other than cleaning up tegu crap every day, the arrangement works for all of us. Both of my tegus get regular vet checks and they're both incredibly healthy and happy. 

I get fussed at for not having a mulch-filled burrowing spot. My tegus have blankets and heating pads and both of them seem to have their 'favorite' possessions. I've watched 'Derp' my adult male haul off his favorite blanket so he can burrow in it. I've watch 'Ammy' my adult female puff up and defend her favorite warm catbed under 'her' heating lamp. They claim things as their own, and I let them have those things. Watching Derp hauling off his blanket is the funniest and most awesome thing to watch. He hauls it right into his warm heating pad area and that is HIS territory.

I get fussed at for not having a humidifier. My tegus get at least one bath, if not two, every day. Derp loves for me to shut the door with him in the bathroom with hot water going, he loves the steam baths, and he loves relaxing in the warm water. Ammy actually will climb into the bathtub (which is amazing, considering she is one FAT tegu) and just sit there and look at me, demanding her bath. My tegus always have water available, and they do make frequent use of them! I change their water everyday. 

I get fussed at for not having a way to check the temps. Both of my tegus have heating lamps, and both of them have nice heating pads. Derp is never happier than when he's burrowed under his blanket, on top of his heating pad. At the moment, it's too cold to take them outside, but they both have a way to perch in the windows for natural light. Ammy doesn't like the window, but Derp loves his sunshine. He kicks the cat out of her perch regularly. 

Now, my lizards do 'derp' a lot. They get confused. They get angry. Derp hunts for a place to feel safe, and usually, this entails me having to wrap him and cradle him, and hold him close. Ammy hides in a closet, at the very back. And I know that this is them needing the security of a smaller space, and I make sure i don't mess with them when they find a hiding spot that they fit in. Derp regularly knocked all the books off the bottom two shelves of a bookcase. So I gave up and put an old baby blanket on the bottom shelf, and sometimes I find him there. He also loves dirty laundry, so I've learned if I can't find him, he's at the bottom of the hamper. 

Free-range lets me have a close bond with my lizards. Derp will climb up into my chair that I sleep in and curl up on my chest. Ammy will get into bed with me and lay against me. They're both incredibly happy, healthy lizards. 

I guess the point of this is that everyone has a right to raise their lizards how they chose, so long as those lizards are happy and healthy. I've been told (by people here on the forums) that I'm 'abusing my lizards' by not having them in enclosures that I can carefully monitor. 

Tegus are smart. MIne are ornery, cantankerous stinkers who deliberately get into trouble just because they can. But I have to think that I'm doing something right, when I'm sitting in my chair with this big beautiful tegu laying on me, and he's got his eyes closed and is just happily sleeping on me. I have to think I'm doing something right when I see them in their beds and they've got fat tailbases, full-bellies, and they've just come through some beautiful sheds and are gleaming with health.


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## TegusRawsome80 (Feb 23, 2013)

I completely disagree with the way you keep your tegus and I absolutely would not recommend it to anyone considering it. However, they are your animals and it is ultimately your choice. I think the threads you've started can accurately show how uncontrolled this situation is. You've recently posted about three things that would likely not have occurred if your tegus were kept in large enclosures. 1. Your tegu had a "small flesh wound" because it "somehow managed to injure itself". This would absolutely not have happened if he was kept in a proper enclosure. 2. Your tegu and cat "get fussy with each other and he tries to eat her tail". This shows the ridiculous lack of ability to control a free-range tegu, especially with your other animals. That situation is extremely risky to both animals, as either could injure or kill the other when you aren't watching them. 3. You posted threads about how your male tegu wouldn't stop bothering your female tegu and how she might be pregnant but you had NO idea what to do because you weren't ready. If your animals were kept in enclosures, this would not have happened. I have had none of these problems with my tegus and I think it is because of how I keep them. You post threads such as those listed above and then wonder why people frown on the way you care for your tegus. I find that interesting.


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## tresh (Feb 23, 2013)

And I see threads on here about tegus hurting themselves in enclosures as well. Or eating mulch and getting impacted. Everytime a problem arises with mine, I take care of it. I make sure I take care of problems. I post here for advice and to share tegu stories, not to get told I'm a bad pet owner. Having tegus is a learning process. 

My original posts were about my adult girl. I HAD the big enclosure for her. Had temps perfect, perfect humidity, every single thing was exactly as advised. What did she do? Hurt herself breaking out of it. Several times. So I eventually started trying to find a system that works. 

Accidents happen. And having pets is always a learning process. I just hate to see so much judgement on these forums, when the entire point of a forum is to learn and advise, not judge and talk down to people.


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## TegusRawsome80 (Feb 23, 2013)

Clearly everything wasn't right if she felt the need to leave it. I'm not judging you or talking down to you. I'm explaining exactly why what you're doing is irresponsible and not the best thing for your animals. Why would you want to learn from bad things happening to your animals? You think your system is working and maybe it will. I could be completely wrong. But until you have some form of long term success with it I'll stick with mine and continue to disagree with yours. I think you'll run into long term problems from a lack of proper heat and humidity. Either that or you'll one day have more serious accidents due to the lack of control of their environment. As I said, your choice as an owner but I don't understand why you would expect people to support your experimentation when they disagree with it.


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## Roadkill (Feb 23, 2013)

tresh, keep in mind that hobbyists, particularly reptile hobbyists, tend to be an arrogant lot and they each know their way is best. Tegutalk in particular is known for being an aggressive forum. So if you present something out of the mainstream caresheet regurgitated info, people are going to cut into you. Despite their best intentions, they seem to forget that tegus come from a very widespread area and live in quite varying conditions. Yes, for many people, it is best to give them the basic black and white "your basking temp should be X, your cool side should be Y, the best substrate is W, etc." but this doesn't at all reflect the actual conditions these animals live in down in South America. There are some optimal conditions we should be trying to give our tegus, but that isn't necessarily reached in the same manner with all people. 

This being said, I can understand the reservation being presented by TegusRawsome80. I'm not saying this person is right, but many people do try to free-range their reptilian pets without proper understanding of their needs, and to many "if it eats and breathes, then it's ok" seems to be the mantra, even though the animal clearly has problems to someone more knowledgeable. I'm hoping your tegu is healthy, but I can understand why some might think otherwise. While some may think they've covered all the possible issues with free-ranging, they may not be thinking all that clearly and someone else can find "the holes". I do think TegusRawsome80 is being judgemental in the assumption that if your tegu wanted out, something had to be wrong: why couldn't the tegu have just wanted out? I have a small herd of red-footed tortoises, and in this herd there are two individuals with very striking personalities. One lives in the water, constantly. So if I went by this example, clearly the rest are being kept wrong and should all be kept in water constantly. The other is a perpetual explorer. I don't mean he runs around all the time, just that if a novel situation is presented he is always the first (sometimes only) one to explore it. Remove the water pool, bam he's in the vacant spot checking it out. Put in a box, bam he's in there right away. Open their enclosure and he'll be the first one out. Does this mean there's something wrong? No.

As an abject lesson for all, though: I used to have a very large reptile that I let free-roam in my home. He had his own particular set-up where he spent most of his time and where I tried to accommodate all his needs, but he had the option to wander as he wished and he did so. An incident occurred wherein because he was free-roaming and I hadn't accounted for all possibilities, he got seriously injured and many people became objectionably aware of the situation and complaining that I didn't know what I was doing and the incident proved such. I sought the best possible care for this animal, got him treated and fully recovered, but this was still not enough for those people who "knew better". A situation came up wherein I had to go elsewhere, and this reptile was left in the care of A)a veterinarian, B)a technician well experienced in the needs of these reptiles and currently caring for a sizable colony of them and C) a researcher also experienced with these animals and was one of the ones that objected to the manner in which this animal was housed. Despite the fact that this animal had lived with me nearly 20 years and was amazingly healthy (according to veterinarians that worked on him previously), in less than one year in the hands of these experts my beloved companion was dead because of their husbandry.

tresh, your tegus may be fine, they may not be, but no one here including myself can say for sure your tegus are one or the other just because they are free roaming without seeing so for themselves. Even then they might just be ignorant.


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## Deac77 (Feb 23, 2013)

Idk about the entire apartment but when Kirby free roams in HIS closet he has basking lights UVB and water his basking spot temps are average at 110* his ambient in the rest of the closet is 85-95 depending on the day and some days we will spend hours in there even whole days he even has a night light invade a emergency came up while I was out (given the nature of the medical field it can happen) Kirby will bang against his glass widows over and over until he get to go to the closet (granted in usually there and even this is a enclosed area) but I do feel that it's possible to provide proper temps at least and a large water source outside of a cage now I see alot of dangers with free roaming a house like knocking I've stuff onto them or breaking glass and crawling over it and many more but I don't think it's wrong if he's taken all precautions only time will tell.


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## TegusRawsome80 (Feb 23, 2013)

You say that I'm judgmental, but to be completely honest I don't view that as a bad thing. Obviously if someone posts pictures or descriptions of their setup, animals, etc. I am going to judge the setup based on my experience. I determined from my knowledge of Tresh's situation(previous posts etc.), that her care is insufficient and probably will not properly support the animals for long. Tegus do live in an extremely large variety of habitats in their natural habitat, but they certainly don't live on carpet with no humidity, no place to burrow, and minimal heating in the wild. I think you're letting your personal experiences get in the way of your thinking here to be completely honest. Your animal, depends on species, could have simply died of old age when in the hands of the "experts". We will see long term how well Tresh's setup works. All I've done is state my reasons for disagreeing with the setup she provides. I don't think calling me judgmental in a negative sense is fair however. I have merely observed a variety of situations that have arisen from the OP's care and made my own conclusion directly from those observations..


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## Roadkill (Feb 23, 2013)

Let's see here - no where in this post is a mention of carpet (other than your own), there hasn't been an indication of what the humidity is at all but you assume it to be not low but nonexistent, no place to burrow (despite the fact it has been indicated that they indeed do, it just isn't substrate - given a choice in the wild between digging their own burrow or occupying an already existing hide, tegus will take the already existing), and minimal heating. Tell us again how you're not being negatively judgemental?

As for my own animal, died at around 20 when they have a lifespan close to that of humans, and I already stated clearly the animal died because of their husbandry. Yeah, you've convinced me you are not negatively judgemental at all. I'm not saying tresh's care is great, but from what I'm seeing here, to borrow a phrase, " I think you're letting your personal experiences get in the way of your thinking here to be completely honest." tresh's care can certainly be improved, but free-roaming does not necessarily equate bad.


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## TeguBuzz (Feb 23, 2013)

Roadkill said:


> tresh, keep in mind that hobbyists, particularly reptile hobbyists, tend to be an arrogant lot and they each know their way is best. Tegutalk in particular is known for being an aggressive forum. So if you present something out of the mainstream caresheet regurgitated info, people are going to cut into you. Despite their best intentions, they seem to forget that tegus come from a very widespread area and live in quite varying conditions. Yes, for many people, it is best to give them the basic black and white "your basking temp should be X, your cool side should be Y, the best substrate is W, etc." but this doesn't at all reflect the actual conditions these animals live in down in South America. There are some optimal conditions we should be trying to give our tegus, but that isn't necessarily reached in the same manner with all people.
> 
> This being said, I can understand the reservation being presented by TegusRawsome80. I'm not saying this person is right, but many people do try to free-range their reptilian pets without proper understanding of their needs, and to many "if it eats and breathes, then it's ok" seems to be the mantra, even though the animal clearly has problems to someone more knowledgeable. I'm hoping your tegu is healthy, but I can understand why some might think otherwise. While some may think they've covered all the possible issues with free-ranging, they may not be thinking all that clearly and someone else can find "the holes". I do think TegusRawsome80 is being judgemental in the assumption that if your tegu wanted out, something had to be wrong: why couldn't the tegu have just wanted out? I have a small herd of red-footed tortoises, and in this herd there are two individuals with very striking personalities. One lives in the water, constantly. So if I went by this example, clearly the rest are being kept wrong and should all be kept in water constantly. The other is a perpetual explorer. I don't mean he runs around all the time, just that if a novel situation is presented he is always the first (sometimes only) one to explore it. Remove the water pool, bam he's in the vacant spot checking it out. Put in a box, bam he's in there right away. Open their enclosure and he'll be the first one out. Does this mean there's something wrong? No.
> 
> ...



Tegu Talk is known for being an aggressive forum? I'd like to see where you heard that, because I disagree with you fully on that statement. Only a few members here take the "aggressive" approach. This forum is no where near aggressive in comparison to the othe forums that I would like to call cutt-throat, which I prefer. 

Also, this "large reptile" that you had for twenty years and then passed on, what type of reptile was it - if you don't mind me asking? It definitely was not a tegu, they don't live anywhere near as long as humans do. Was it a tortoise? It wasn't a green iguana, they usually live to 20 - or so. Maybe a Cyclura? They say the oldest one recorded in captivity lived to it's late sixties or mid seventies, can't recall. And even that is rare as they usually pass away between 35-40 in the best of care. I also agree with Austin - they do not come from a wide variety of habitats, and if they do - please do direct me to some source of information that is reliable an states that.


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## TegusRawsome80 (Feb 23, 2013)

Roadkill said:


> Let's see here - no where in this post is a mention of carpet (other than your own), there hasn't been an indication of what the humidity is at all but you assume it to be not low but nonexistent, no place to burrow (despite the fact it has been indicated that they indeed do, it just isn't substrate - given a choice in the wild between digging their own burrow or occupying an already existing hide, tegus will take the already existing), and minimal heating. Tell us again how you're not being negatively judgemental?
> 
> As for my own animal, died at around 20 when they have a lifespan close to that of humans, and I already stated clearly the animal died because of their husbandry. Yeah, you've convinced me you are not negatively judgemental at all. I'm not saying tresh's care is great, but from what I'm seeing here, to borrow a phrase, " I think you're letting your personal experiences get in the way of your thinking here to be completely honest." tresh's care can certainly be improved, but free-roaming does not necessarily equate bad.


I really like how you call Tegutalk an aggressive forum and then come on and behave in an extraordinarily aggressive manner on it. The needs of tortoises and tegus are extremely different. I'm assuming you are referring to a tortoise because I don't know what other reptile has a lifespan that rivals humans. What else would her flooring be made out of? I guess it could be hard wood or tile but that would be worse in my opinion. I consider burrowing to be making a burrow that the reptile will then use. I don't consider it to be rearranging a pile of blankets. How high could her humidity be in a house/apartment? Too much and it would definitely have negative affects on the interior of the house. It can't be anywhere near 60-80%. I consider this deducing the relatively obvious, not blindly assuming anything.


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## Roadkill (Feb 23, 2013)

TeguBuzz, you're thinking way too small. As for the "wide variety of habitats", all I can say is that what I said was "tegus come from a very widespread area and live in quite varying conditions" - not quite the same thing. But let's go with your interpretation just for the sake of it. Caatinga, cerrado, rain forest, swamp - these are just some of the habitats that tegus inhabit in the wild. Are you claiming these are all the same? Or, more in line with the statement I originally made, let's look at the one tegu species, _Salvator merianae_. This species inhabits a range that is arguably from about mid-Argentina all the way north to nearly the north end of the continent, from the eastern shore of the continent all the way to the Andes (if not further). Some of these areas experience snow in winter, some don't experience much temperature variation but definitely a strong hydrological variance (dry vs. wet seasons), some of these areas are basically always dry while others are basically always wet. Are you saying my statement of "tegus come from a very widespread area and live in quite varying conditions" is inaccurate of this distribution?



> How high could her humidity be in a house/apartment? Too much and it would definitely have negative affects on the interior of the house. It can't be anywhere near 60-80%. I consider this deducing the relatively obvious, not blindly assuming anything.



Hmmn, let's see. I live in a house, I have to run my DEhumidifier 24hrs a day to keep my humidity DOWN to 65% relative humidity. The paint isn't peeling off my walls, the drywall isn't rotting, and as far as I can tell, the only mold in my place is on the cheese in the fridge. This conclusively proves that yes, you are indeed blindly assuming. Please, though, don't let that stop you, I'm finding this quite comedic, it's ok for you to be judgemental of someone else but someone challenges you and it's an offense.

Because you evidently missed it, I wasn't presenting the tortoises as a comparison of similar needs, but as an example of how there are different "personalities" in these animals and just because they may act a certain way that is different from the typical or from complacent doesn't mean there is something wrong. Heck, just because an animal may be complacent doesn't mean it's right, either.

Seriously, guys, you object to being described as "aggressive" or "negatively judgemental", someone tells you a story that demonstrates that everyone can be wrong, and what do you do? Try to dig up dirt and conjecture in whatever way you can to burn the messenger. I must be impaired to think this is "aggressive" or "negatively judgemental" behaviour. My apologies, you guys are the definition of positive and helpful. I have to give you credit, one of you at least assumed carpet when you could have assumed broken glass and sodium cyanide crystals.

tresh, I want to be clear that I'm neither supporting nor arguing against free-ranging your tegus. We don't have enough information. I hope you monitor your tegus' body temperatures and ensure they have the means to thermoregulate properly. While I agree that tegus should have a high humidity, there's nothing to complain about if your tegus are shedding properly and not having any complications. Free-ranging can be bad because typically people aren't paying attention to the reptiles needs and are thinking treating their reptile like a dog is fine, but free-ranging is not necessarily bad, it can be done while simultaneously meeting your tegus needs. I hope this is the situation with yours.


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## Rhetoric (Feb 24, 2013)

I hope your situation works out for you and your tegus. Personally it's something I would never try. I would be worried about the health of my reptile. I share the same concerns as those who posted above. Guru gets into everything. He thinks everything is for him to taste and/or thrash. Are you not worried about bacteria and whatever else being passed between your cat and your lizards? It seems like you have put quite a bit of thought into this. I couldn't recommend it to anyone because I don't believe it is right but I'm sure I do things that aren't right either. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your care techniques. Everyone does have the right to care for their animals as they chose as long as they aren't being abused. To me, you can be a very very poor owner before you are abusing or neglecting. I'm not saying you're doing either. I am interested in any pictures you might have of the basking areas or pictures in general of your tegus if you have any. 

As far as this being an aggressive forum, I don't really see that. Yes there are members who do not get a long and yes there are arguments. But these are things on all of the forums. There are many forums where people are way more "aggressive". Some other forums seem to only be about what's best for the animal and not about being nice to the owner. I've seen some forums with more monitor keepers and those guys are pretty brutal when it comes to sharing "opinions".


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## chelvis (Feb 24, 2013)

Hey Tresh,
Seems like things got a bit ff topic, but anyway. I want to say I don't see anything wrong with your set-up from a husbandry stand point just a safety one. I think many people get caught up in the details when they set-up reptile cages. For example the humidity issue keeps coming up. The whole house does not need to be humid, I dear not try to keep my whole cage above 65% its impossible living in San Diego where the average day humidity is 0-10%, some days it feels like its negative. However I have no problem keeping a box in the cage a nice 80% humidity. I can change out the bedding in this more often with little problem and it helps with mild issues. Tresh says that she provides a bath and a steam room if you will each day for her tegus. In my mind this works out fine. Burrowing I would agree with her, Bosco has access to three different adult tegu hides (he only uses them for sleeping) one is filled with most cypress mulch and moss (the humidity hide) one is filled with just mulch the other is filled with old towels and blankets. He LOVES the towels and blanket one, I have moved it around and still that's the one he choices almost every night. So its mulch the only thing tegus will us, nope it depends on the individual tegu. Heating and temps could be provided easily in a house with basking spots or leaving a window cracked for natural light. 

Really the only issue I see is a safety issue and that's how well are things tegu proofed and the cat. The first I cannot say more on as I am not Tresh and I have never been to their house. As for the second one, I would never let a tegu or any reptile free roam with a cat without me being there. I have a cat, love him to death and him and Bosco seem to have worked out a plan, same with Bosco and the dogs. However it would only take one split second and I would come home to either a dead pet or an injured one. Bosco is family to me, I have had him over 6 years now and it would devastate me to lose him, even more so if it was something I could prevent. 

So yeah there's my two cents for what its worth. I have a room in my house, its 10x10. I keep the door closed in the summer and let Bosco roam it, when Bacardi was still around he switched off days with the tegus. The room has some climbing stuff built for tegus in mind but other then there cages nothing else. No wires to chew on (all where way off the ground), nothing to wedge themselves under or behind (cages are all a foot away from the wall) no closets or anything and the door could lock from the outside (got a dog who is Houdini). The tegus loved it, I would leave the window open and I would find them following the sun like a cat. This room was secure and most importantly to me the cat and dogs could not meet the reptiles unless I was there to open the door.


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## laurarfl (Feb 24, 2013)

I think it is human nature to bring our own personal experiences into our interpretation of posts. I don't think I would be comfortable free-roaming my animals. That's my two cents.

Roadkill, I understand what you mean about everyone wanting their way to be the best. I also believe there are certain parameters to be followed. Let me ask, when you free-roamed your animal, did you check the temperatures with any sort of device? Let's also mention that you have extensive research background and are not the average hobbyist.

As an aside, I didn't think TegusAreAwesome's post was aggressive. I have seen previous conversations between Tresh and TAA on other places and this one is pretty civil, lol.


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## HeatherN (Feb 25, 2013)

It's been a bit since i posted - college keeps me busy - but i think i'll throw in my two cents here (not to contradict or argue with anyone, just my experiences).

Tresh - I personally have nothing against the way you house or care for your tegu. i have Tarot, my extreme thats around three feet long, in an enclosure with ~80% humidity under his fogger, an ambient 50% humidity, basking temps of over 100 F, ambient temps of ~85 F. He has coco husk for substrate, a wooden hide w/ spagnum moss, a large water bowl, and blankets/t-shirts. All tegus have their own personalities, but Tarot in particular LOVES his blankets. he burrows under them instead of the substrate or hide and can often be found "foraging" in them if he doesnt feel like basking. I'd like to think my setup is sufficient; it certainly meets all the suggestions on this forum. Though, more often than not, Tarot's always feverishly scratching at the glass to come out!

From my observations, i believe Tarot is incredibly intelligent for a reptile. when there's something new or some hubbub going on, he insists on coming out. Especially when he sees me cooking, the little terror. Even then, when i let him out, the first thing he does is go to this spot he has deemed his "poo poo spot", does this thing, then promptly ignores me to walk around my studio apartment. I firmly believe they enjoy the space and the stimulating environment.

First thing i did when i moved in to this 300 sq foot apartment was tegu proof it, even though he wasnt free roaming at that point. Now that he's hitting his adolescence, he's got that wanderlust hitting him hard, and he's always itchin' to explore and just roam. Also, being such "interactive" animals, i think they enjoy being in our immediate presence (even though Tarot will often stick to "drive by" encounters). But tegus being tegus, he's always getting into something; scaring one of my many other pets (i have over 10 herps), running circles on his personal racetrack (my dog's bed), or just plain checkin' stuff out. Due to his clear enjoyment of the activity, i let him free roam as much as possible. i would make it a constant thing, just leaving his cage open (as he is always able to return if he wishes), but he rules this apartment and if i leave him alone with my other animals, he would tease them all day (especially my plumed basilisk for some reason).

i am a firm believer in controlling my animals, especially potentially dangerous ones such as dogs or tegus, but i am also a firm believer in providing the most mental stimulation possible for the animals in my care. it is clear to me that this is the best way for Tarot to get more out of life. i have tried hiding quail eggs in deli cups, sticking turkey in hollow tennis balls, even letting him play with large animal bones, and i have yet to find anything as obviously interesting to him as living a life alongside me. In fact, i think his boredom is the cause of this jumping habit he's developed that puts scars on his rostral scales!

Ever since i have started letting him out, he has grown faster, been more tolerant of loud or sudden disturbances, and has a larger muscle mass. It considerably brightens my day when I'm cooking/cleaning and a handsome teenage tegu comes by to lick my toes. I care very much for my tegu, and would not willingly put him in harms way, but i dont think the way i let him roam puts him in danger of anything other than getting dust bunnies stuck to his toes. He returns to his cage to bask when he pleases or sleep with his blankets.

You sound like you are meeting their needs in creative ways that are obviously a little less conventional. They dont seem to have anymore health or behavioral issues than other tegus kept in traditional enclosures. As long as they are healthy and your place is safe, i say keep on keepin' on.

Everyone have a lovely day!


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## BatGirl1 (Feb 25, 2013)

I agree with the family interaction. Niles is only 18in right now so i can't let him roam yet...but i am having his enclosure in my livingroom for just that reason. I want him to have his people in view and be allowed to say "hey...i'd like someone to play with ". Once he is large enough i will leave his cage open with a ramp to come and go during periods when I am supervising him (my house is not 'entirely ' tegu proof) . 

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