# do tegus love?



## elmo (Mar 19, 2013)

do tegus love? can they love us? 

my tegu doesnt like to be handled by other people, she allows it but wiggles alot. i had some friends over today and everytime they touched her she would walk away. i put my hand down and started to pet her chin and she stopped. when the kids stared to get jumpy, elmo came over to me, got super close and just chilled. at our herp meeting the other day everyone wanted to hold her and love on her but she wouldnt stop wiggling, i put her on my chest and she stayed there for hours. when she hears my voice she comes out of hiding, but if someone else is in her room then she only pokes her head out. sooo cute!

anything i can do make her more social?
do u think tegus can love?


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## reptastic (Mar 19, 2013)

I was j u t icussing this with someone a few days ago, while thy dont gt emotional attachments thy do form bonds with their keepers...my tegus for example aren't fond of strange people, if they dont know you they want nothing to do with you, especially storm, he will arch up and wag his tail


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## Teg (Mar 19, 2013)

The only bonding i get is when it's feeding time ... You can see them pupils zoom in on the plate ! lol There's definitely a bond there, i can see a big difference even when the wife or kids are around, he just doesn't want to know them !


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## reptastic (Mar 19, 2013)

If you aint feed I aint playing is a tegus motto lol at least mines


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## HeatherN (Mar 19, 2013)

My tegu definitely doesnt love me, or really feel any affection towards me whatsoever! However, i do think tegu's can feel comforted by your presence. Though mine just uses me as a place to hide. -.-

There is actually a part of the brain that becomes active when one's loved one (not best friend) is near. Therefore, measuring that regions activity is science's way of identifying love. That area of a dog's brain lights up when it's owner is near. Now, tegu brains really arent like our mammal brains, but wouldnt it be cool if they could find an analogous "love" regions (if it existed) and look for activity there? :heart:

While Tarot may not like me all that much, i do think my presence comforts him. Despite all the mean mean things i do to him (such as clip his claws or leash him), he still seems to prefer to be in contact with me in scary situations. He's also much more receptive to me petting him than anyone else. Personally, i think it's amazing when people have such a strong bond with their tegus, but i'm happy just to be recognized and deemed safe by such a powerful, wary beast.


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## Grendel (Mar 20, 2013)

They don't. It's a reptile.


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## HeatherN (Mar 20, 2013)

id say one shouldnt assume one way or the other. they are certainly capable of more complex problem solving abilities, and reptiles like tokay geckos show maternal instincts. it's easiest, in my opinion, to let people believe whatever they want about whether reptiles can love, as long as theyre not putting themselves or anyone else in danger.


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## psychocircus91 (Mar 20, 2013)

They don't love. It's all about trust. They see you as a source of food, water, warm baths, security, etc. I think they can be "excited" about your presence and seek attention (because they associate you with good things) but it is not love.


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## laurarfl (Mar 20, 2013)

I agree. It is not a love, but conditioning. Reptiles do not have the same portions of the brain that control emotions. That is where the saying "the reptilian brain" came from.


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## Deac77 (Mar 20, 2013)

laurarfl said:


> I agree. It is not a love, but conditioning. Reptiles do not have the same portions of the brain that control emotions. That is where the saying "the reptilian brain" came from.



I do agree that the "reptilian brain" is colder, however I feel that they most likely have a region similar that controls emotions. This is my personal opinion. The reason being is simple, why else, when a tegu hasn't been fed in 2-3 days and I've been out of town, would a tegu pass up food to simply lie in my lap, or have his chin scratched? Heat is provided, so it's not for warmth, we are in his enclosure so he should be comfortable, why then would he prefer me over food?


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## apocalypse910 (Mar 20, 2013)

There seems to be almost no research into this and I really don't think anyone has more than anecdotal evidence in either direction.

I've heard the "Reptilian brain" thing a number of times, and while it is a useful term to describe primitive parts of mammalian behavior it is not a scientifically accurate concept. 

Please see - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_brain


> Some recent behavioral studies do not support the traditional view of sauropsid behavior as stereotyped and ritualistic (as in MacLean's reptilian complex). Birds have been shown to possess highly sophisticated cognitive abilities, such as the toolmaking of the New Caledonian crow and the language-like categorization abilities of the African Gray Parrot.[5] Structures of the limbic system, which MacLean proposed arose in early mammals, have now been shown to exist across a range of modern vertebrates. The "paleomammalian" trait of parental care of offspring is widespread in birds and occurs in some fishes as well. Thus, like the basal ganglia, the evolution of these systems presumably date to a common vertebrate ancestor.[4][6]



I see a number of claims that they don't have emotions because they are reptiles, cold blooded, etc.. - this seems to be mostly circular reasoning. I have not seen any reputable studies that show that reptiles (or cold blooded animals) are incapable of emotions. I think there is also a temptation to associate cold temperature to emotional coldness which makes many people accept this as fact. 

There is a ton we don't know about animal behavior in general, and reptile behavior seems to be even less thoroughly understood. There are certainly some behaviors that we'd associate with emotion although it is not proof. For example there are lizards that care for there young, lizards that mate for life and appear to mourn if their mates die. I'm sure we've all seen the videos of tegus ignoring food for attention. I think they can feel some level of affection- but I'm as biased as anyone.


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## psychocircus91 (Mar 20, 2013)

apocalypse910 said:


> There seems to be almost no research into this and I really don't think anyone has more than anecdotal evidence in either direction.
> 
> I've heard the "Reptilian brain" thing a number of times, and while it is a useful term to describe primitive parts of mammalian behavior it is not a scientifically accurate concept.
> 
> ...



I read before that only elephants, primates, and dolphins are capable of mourning death. Other animals may be confused as to why their mate/ family member is gone, but don't mourn. However this was several years ago and I have no idea where I read it.


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## HeatherN (Mar 20, 2013)

recently, footage has been shot of bison mourning at a skeleton of a long-dead herd member. i agree with apocalypse. we like to project emotions onto and personify reptiles, but we shouldnt make assumptions either way. before all the recent discoveries being made about animal "intelligence" every day, people had no idea about their capacity for emotions or higher cognitive function. we've still got a long way to go to even understand animals' mental capabilities at a basic level. 

to me, the fact that i couldnt tell you anything about whats going through most animals minds - even when they stare me straight in the eyes - is whats great about them. they could be thinking about how much they love you, how much they detest you, how weird you look, how you always bring nummies, or how that weird fleshy mass is always moving and making weird sounds.


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## Deac77 (Mar 20, 2013)

As for reptiles mourning shingleback skinks stay with their mates long after they die. They also meet up with the same mate year after year and spend months together


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## apocalypse910 (Mar 20, 2013)

psychocircus91 said:


> I read before that only elephants, primates, and dolphins are capable of mourning death. Other animals may be confused as to why their mate/ family member is gone, but don't mourn. However this was several years ago and I have no idea where I read it.



Here is part of the documentary I was referring to-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZiAiUYS8o [Tearjerker warning]
watch from 4:50 if you want to see what I'm referring to

Can watch every sad movie on earth back to back without feeling even the slightest emotion - but a damn clip from a reptile documentary...


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## Aardbark (Mar 20, 2013)

I think they can feel some form of love, or affection. It may not be on the same level as human love, its just different. My tegu definitly perfers me over anyone else, and will only let me pet/hold her.

And reptiles can definitly feel emotions. Fear is an emotion isnt it, and everyone has seen a scared tegu snake its tail and arch its back. Or have seen a comfortable tegu, relax and sprawl out comfortably on a hot rock. Or be all excited and scurry over to a food bowl.


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## laurarfl (Mar 21, 2013)

Looking at this scientifically and theologically, love has a couple definitions.

Theologically speaking, love has many forms, but they require a conscious decision to be made, ie love your enemies even though they hurt you. Tegus do NOT do this,lol.

Physically, love is an attraction spurred by oxytocin. Supposedly, lizards are less receptive to oxytocin.
"Lead author James Goodson speculated that if the finding can be applied to mammals, then the concentration of receptors for oxytocin in the lateral septum might predict how gregarious somebody is likely to be.

"The lateral septum is structurally very similar in reptiles, birds and mammals," he said. "To our knowledge, it plays an important role in the social and reproductive behaviours in all land vertebrates."

Some scientists are interested in whether oxytocin can be used to improve relationships. Earlier this year, researchers at the University of Zurich found that couples given oxytocin before a "conflict discussion" displayed more "positive communication behaviours", such as eye contact and open body language, than couples given a placebo. They also had lower levels of the stress hormone cortisol.

Its involvement in social behaviours has even led to oxytocin being investigated as a potential treatment for autism.

But another recent study serves as a warning not to get too carried away. Researchers at the University of Haifa in Israel found that volunteers who inhaled oxytocin before playing a competitive game felt more envy when they lost and more schadenfreude when they won.

So while it's tempting to romanticise oxytocin, we would do well to remember that the "love hormone" isn't always a fomenter of happy relationships."
http://www.reuniting.info/gregarious_types_may_have_more_oxytocin_receptors

So is your tegu loving you or has your tegu come to associate you with good things and the oxytocin given off has created a bond? I don't think animals love to the extent that people do because I believe that people and animals are separate. I don't believe animals feel any emotion to this extent that people do. That where the term anthropomorphism comes from.


The part of the brain that controls fear is not the same part of the brain that controls emotions, btw. Fear is controlled by the amygdala and "feeling" part of the brain comes from the limbic system which reptiles do not have. Here is a simple article about it.
http://www.starchiefpress.com/articles/article42.html


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## BatGirl1 (Mar 23, 2013)

Ok...sorry. niles has answered this question.  <3 he LOVES his stuffed alligator. The case can now be closed... [attachment=6678][attachment=6679]


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## BatGirl1 (Mar 23, 2013)

More snuggly-ness  [attachment=6680][attachment=6681]


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## laurarfl (Mar 23, 2013)

lol. Well there you go!


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## elmo (Mar 24, 2013)

laurarfl said:


> lol. Well there you go!



awww thats tooo cute. u have proven our point right  lol


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## BatGirl1 (Mar 24, 2013)

He seriously loves his plush alligator. Haha. Although he's been weird to me since coming out of hibernation.  he seems to like the alligator better ...haha :/


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## elmo (Mar 24, 2013)

BatGirl1 said:


> He seriously loves his plush alligator. Haha. Although he's been weird to me since coming out of hibernation.  he seems to like the alligator better ...haha :/



awe he replaced you


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## BatGirl1 (Mar 24, 2013)

Good news though! Today I was holding him and he only freaked at first...then I was petting him on my lap and talking to him and he calmed down a lot. I held him for a long time and petted and kissed him  and he was falling asleep on me. Acting much more like himself. <3[attachment=6687]


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## psychocircus91 (Mar 24, 2013)

BatGirl1 said:


> Good news though! Today I was holding him and he only freaked at first...then I was petting him on my lap and talking to him and he calmed down a lot. I held him for a long time and petted and kissed him  and he was falling asleep on me. Acting much more like himself. <3




how's the feeding coming along?


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## BatGirl1 (Mar 24, 2013)

He ate chicken dipped in eggyolk for me  but today only drank a ton. Before hibernation he was eating good about every third day, so realistically he may go back to that. I'm so happy he's seeming to slowly get 'back to normal '...


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