# dozer is twitching,



## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

solar pro 160 watt uvb 6 inches from his basking spot., good basking temp, good humidity, eats well, has supliments twice a week sometimes three. past couple days it was in his back feet, today its all over. What to do?


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## Rhetoric (Sep 3, 2011)

What kind of supplements? How old is the bulb? Is it possible it could be a dud or something? Do you feed eggs very often? Some foods are higher in oxalic acids which can make it more difficult to absorb calcium, maybe there is something in his diet? My guess would be a calcium deficiency if he is having tremors. I would call around and see if you can find a vet that has experience with tegus. They might be able to give Dozer a calcium shot. 

Heres a thread I pulled from thetegu.com, there are a few posts that I found to be really useful.
http://thetegu.com/showthread.php?692-Tegu-twitching


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

he eats eggs twice a week with suppliments in it. Using repcal herpavitamins no d3. the bulb is only a month old.

Ive had him for almost 2 months.


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## Kebechet (Sep 3, 2011)

You might consider adding chicken necks to his diet. I second the possibility that the bulb may be a dud. Do you have a way to measure UVB output?


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

Kebechet said:


> You might consider adding chicken necks to his diet. I second the possibility that the bulb may be a dud. Do you have a way to measure UVB output?



nope.


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## Rhetoric (Sep 3, 2011)

Is it possible for someone to take him outside for a few? In a tub or something so he cant bolt? Natural sunlight is a million times better than any bulb we can buy. I would still guess calcium deficiency but if hes having issues absorbing it should help.

Is there a ton of phosphorus in the supplement? I think the ideal CA : P ratio is 2:1, if hes getting too much phosphorus it can increase his calcium requirements which can also lead to a deficiency. 

edit: did not mean for the "" face, I forgot the colon + p turned into that...


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

can it be fixed?


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## babyyitslove (Sep 3, 2011)

Lots of sun.... try for a new bulb (even though I know they're expensive). See if you can have Lisa take him outside in a tub with maybe Just a piece of screen on it during the peak hours of the day for sunshine. 
If you can figure out what's causing it, and provide him with what he needs to stop it, he wont always be a twitcher. But make sure you remember what you did, so you'll have a game plan if it happens again.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Sep 3, 2011)

_As long as it's caught early, you find and address the issue, it can be fixed. Are you adding supplements to everything that you feed with little to no calcium in it? Because you only mentioned that he gets supplemented eggs twice a week. What else are you feeding? 

How big is your tegu?,.. 6 ins is close too close for me._


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## Rhetoric (Sep 3, 2011)

If its a calcium issue it can be fixed. I believe there are OTC liquid calcium products that might be of use, I have never used them before so I have no idea which ones work and which are garbage or if they're all garbage. I would also use the calcium supplement every day if hes not eating whole prey. 
I'm obviously not a vet but from my understanding, when there is a low level of calcium the nerve transmission is off which causes the muscles to contract/twitch. Calcium issues can lead to MBD (so can other things) so it is important that it is addressed but if it is a newer issue, I don't see why it can't be successfully treated.
There are probably a few other reasons why he may be twitching but calcium is the first that comes to mind, especially after seeing that he isn't too interested in whole prey. 
If he takes fruit, here are a few that are higher in calcium and might be worth trying:
blueberries, papaya, banana (also high in phosphorus so its an occasional food), blackberries, pineapple (also higher in citrus another occasional), I think mango is another one. 

See if you can get him to eat anything new, maybe get him outside for a bit, look into a liquid calcium. If it continues a vet visit should be in order. To the other members, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about something.


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

I put supliments in the turkey too. Ill up the dosage to daily feedings. When I get home tonight ill chop up a rat pup I have. Have a few breeders at home.
Snakes are so much easyer. Im so new at tegus, Im worried that my extreme will have issues too. Is it ok to feed all meat diets? As long as I add calcium and other vitamin suplliments? Dozer wont take fruit. Tried.


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## Rhetoric (Sep 3, 2011)

Generally younger tegus won't take fruits or veggies. I believe that colombians are more carnivorous than the argentines. I'm not surprised yours isnt interested in fruits but it never hurts to try! When Guru was younger he only ate meats, it wasn't until around the start of the year that he started taking fruits. Gary and Rango only ate bananas and mice until April when I got them.


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

Im worried. I wonder if its the talapia thats causing it. This didnt start untill he got it.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Sep 3, 2011)

_Is it okay to feed all meat diet,..I wouldn't do it,.. if you have too cut up the fruits and veggies really small or puree it in a blinder. Mix small amounts into his food until he gets use to it,.. then slowly up the amount. Or even put a little honey on it, the fruit may not be ripe enough. You can do the same with hoppers or what ever you have so that they get use to the smell, taste and they learn that it's okay to eat. _


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

getting cod liver oil and a calcium suppliment tonight. Chop up some rats and mix it with turkey meat.


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## babyyitslove (Sep 3, 2011)

The only fruit my columbian will take is chopped blueberries. He even goes as far as picking them out of the ground Turkey and leaving the rest. (When I mix them)


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## james.w (Sep 3, 2011)

Columbians are carnivorous and generally won't eat fruit. An all meat diet for them is fine. If you can't get him to eat whole prey you need to supplement daily. I would be persistent on getting him on whole prey, it will be much better for him in the long run. All the UVB in the world won't matter if he isn't getting calcium.


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

james.w said:


> Columbians are carnivorous and generally won't eat fruit. An all meat diet for them is fine. If you can't get him to eat whole prey you need to supplement daily. I would be persistent on getting him on whole prey, it will be much better for him in the long run. All the UVB in the world won't matter if he isn't getting calcium.



Yeah, Im gonna murk a pup rat tonight and chopitup. My daughter might wig, but I'll ask her if she wants to help.  i really like dozer. I just hope I can find the issue and fix it. Buisness has been really slow and it would hurt the bank account for a vet visit right now. But if I have to.........


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## herpgirl2510 (Sep 3, 2011)

I would considering going to the vet if the tremors are very bad. When my extreme came to me he had eggs like your guy did he was a year old. He would have tremors which got worse when I picked him up. He also did not walk on his front feet kind of on his elbows and he really wiggled when he walked. What I did as far as meat is whole prey every meal I never gave him eggs for 3 months and he could ask for several hours each day in natural sunlight. I know everyone loves the ground turkey but a herpatologist I know said it is not a good staple food. I would pick up a different uvb bulb I have heard bad things about the solar glo. It took about a month for him to never have the tremors anymore his were very extreme. Now he walks up on his feet, wiggles the appropriate amount for a tegu when they are walking and never has tremors. I just gave him some eggs for the firsttime in 3 months and I will give them maybe 2x monthly but I was advised that that was all he should have they are just not that great for them.


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## spidersandmonsters (Sep 3, 2011)

I don't know if this has been said, but cut out the eggs. They make it hard to absorb calcium.


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## james.w (Sep 3, 2011)

I am willing to bet it is a calcium deficiency due to the lack of whole prey and proper supplementation. I doubt it has anything to do with the SolarGlo bulb, I raised my AA on a SolarGlo and just recently started using a PowerSun. Like I said before, you need to be very persistent on getting him to eat whole prey or get him to the vet for a calcium shot.


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

Got cod liver oil tonight. After Hailey goes to bed I'm destroying some rats. I'll mix the chunks with turkey, supliments, and oil. Both tegus are going on a new way of eating tommaro. I won't lose this battle without a fight. 

I just hope it works.


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## Rhetoric (Sep 3, 2011)

I hope he gets better! If i can think of anything else ill post it but definitely sounds calcium related.


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## laurarfl (Sep 3, 2011)

The SolarGlo has been known to have problems recently. Certainly some are OK and some are compromised. Whether or not you choose to replace it is up to you. But 6" is rather close for a mercury vapor bulb. The Solar Glo is a MVB that puts out UVB, the Sun Glo is just a basking light, so make sure that you have the bulb you need...just a thought.

Calcium is necessary for muscle contraction/relaxation. Vitamin D is as well...they go together. Low levels of vitamin D lead to hypocalcemia. Muscle tremors result when the calcium balance is off in the blood plasma, and hormones are produced to leach calcium from the bones to get the calcium levels in the blood back to normal. The bones are affected which is why it is called Metabolic Bone Disease, but the actual name is secondary nutritional hyperparathyroidism.

Having the temperature at a basking temp of 105-ish and ambient of 77-80 will keep the metabolism warm enough and fast enough to process everything. Vit D needs to be provided either through the diet via cod liver oil or in the calcium supplement, and with natural sunlight or a good UVB bulb. Everything without bones needs calcium supplement. You mentioned Herptivite, but that is a multivitamin and not a calcium supplement. I get names confused sometimes, so wasn't sure if you had the right stuff. You want a diet that is about 2:1 Ca : P ratio. Ground turkey is about 1:27-33. It's very backwards, high in phosphorous and low in calcium. So it must be supplemented with calcium. Eggs, insects, pinkies are all backwards and need to be supplemented at every feeding. Many Colombians eat fruit, but mine didn't until the were closer to a year or two old. Young tegus rely on the protein of bugs and meat for growth. But in the wild, their prey feeds on greens which are higher in calcium. Fruit is high in phosphorous, so I wouldn't be concerned about during this healing process.

The fastest, surest way to get your tegu healthy is to bring him to a vet. They'll do bloodwork and then prescribe an oral calcium that is better absorbed than the powder. The bloodwork will determine if an injection is necessary or even appropriate.


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

The light is actually about a foot away. And the mulitvitamins have calcium.


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## laurarfl (Sep 3, 2011)

Multivitamins have calcium, but usually in the form of dicalcium phosphate. So it is adding phosphorous along with your calcium. The company sells the product separately so that the beta-carotene doesn't degrade the calcium. But then you need to buy the calcium to mix with the multivitamins. http://www.repcal.com/supp.htm


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## Rhetoric (Sep 3, 2011)

laurarfl said:


> The SolarGlo has been known to have problems recently. Certainly some are OK and some are compromised. Whether or not you choose to replace it is up to you. But 6" is rather close for a mercury vapor bulb. The Solar Glo is a MVB that puts out UVB, the Sun Glo is just a basking light, so make sure that you have the bulb you need...just a thought.
> 
> Calcium is necessary for muscle contraction/relaxation. Vitamin D is as well...they go together. Low levels of vitamin D lead to hypocalcemia. Muscle tremors result when the calcium balance is off in the blood plasma, and hormones are produced to leach calcium from the bones to get the calcium levels in the blood back to normal. The bones are affected which is why it is called Metabolic Bone Disease, but the actual name is secondary nutritional hyperparathyroidism.
> 
> ...



How do you know so much about this?! I've seen your posts on here and the other forum and you really seem to know what you're talking about. Where did you find out about the ground turkey ratio? I didn't know the ratio was that extreme, I might cut back on how often I feed it...


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## laurarfl (Sep 3, 2011)

Well, I was a prevet and Animal Science major at the Univ of FL. I ended up getting my BS in Cardiopulmonary Sciences later on, specializing in intensive care and life support for neonatal intensive care and pediatric intensive care. Then I was a supervisor for respiratory care in nursing homes and home health agency therapists. Calcium is a major player in cardiac and respiratory muscles, obviously. Animals and people aren't always far off from each other, physiologically speaking. So, I've worked with veterinary medicine, human medicine (lots of basic nutrition and pharmacology in both), teaching science, talking to vets and docs (friends and as customers) for the past 23 years, and I spend a couple of hours daily reading. Nutritional charts are readily available, even on the internet, but then you need to know how to interpret what you are reading. I'm the kind of nerd who will peruse textbooks, medical journals, and studies for fun, lol.

I really never mean to come across as a know-it-all. I just try to help people out. People have helped me and I try to pass along what I've learned to help the hobby in general. I think it aggravates people sometimes though.

Here's a nutritional chart I like to use:
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

They list the Ca: P of bugs and meat as less spread out harmful than I have seen on other charts. I still use ground turkey, but I always supplement with calcium, alternate with rodents a couple times a week, and I do prefer fruit over multivitamins.


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

Wow. Why don't you just move up here. Then this wouldn't be so hard. Who knew that owning a lizard would be difficult.

What about liquid calcium with vitamin d in the gel cap form? Is it safe to use?


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## Rhetoric (Sep 3, 2011)

I used to use one of their charts all the time with my beardie. This one is even better, thanks! I've learned a lot from reading other things you've posted. I think its neat! I was just telling my boyfriend that I learn a ton about different nutrients and how bodies process different things all because of lizards lol.

Have you tried feeding the rat yet?


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 3, 2011)

The chart is very nice. The rat chopped up pretty nice too. I'll get calcium tommaro. And find a exotic pet vet up here tommaro. Stressing.


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## laurarfl (Sep 4, 2011)

Don't stress...it is something treatable...you just need to stay on top of it. Keeping reptiles can be difficult, or easy once you get the hang of it. many of us have made mistakes, it's what you do with it that counts. The first reptile I owned was a sav, back in '90, before Internet and much info. I bought it because it was cool, took the pet shop advice and fed it it cat food with no supplements at all, no uv light, and a heat rock. I'm surprised that thing even survived at all. I fought bad sheds and dehydration for years. Someone else ended up taking it when I moved. When I learned more about reptiles, I realized how madly that poor monitor was kept. It sort of inspired me to keep up on the care of my animals as much as I reasonably can, and to share that info with others. Now this thread that you started can share info with other people and you can eventually share what you have learned. It's just how we all help each other out.


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## jdpFL (Sep 4, 2011)

Excellent answer laura...bravo. I agree 100%. We have all made a mistake or two...since there is so much more to reptile keeping than just having a dog, cat, or hamster. 
Dirty dmc, don't beat yourself up, just get that calcium onboard! Good luck!


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 4, 2011)

My woman made the twitching sound worse that it is. He's out and totaly fine. I was thinking it wouldn't stop. Still, I am fully going to battle this. Just waiting for them to eat the delicious treat I left for them. Have the next three days off.


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## babyyitslove (Sep 4, 2011)

And that means you get some quality time with the new Guy as well!!! So HOORAY!!!


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 4, 2011)

babyyitslove said:


> And that means you get some quality time with the new Guy as well!!! So HOORAY!!!



For sure! He was out when I got home lastnight. Held him food a few seconds. He wasn't very calm about it. But I have all the time in the world to work with him. Thinking about sticking to the matrix thing. Might name him Neo.


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## laurarfl (Sep 4, 2011)

haha, two of you posting under the same name? It will make you sound schizophrenic...kidding...sort of.  Hope all goes well


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 4, 2011)

laurarfl said:


> haha, two of you posting under the same name? It will make you sound schizophrenic...kidding...sort of.  Hope all goes well



me? No.


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## babyyitslove (Sep 4, 2011)

No Apoc, Switch, or Niobe?


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 4, 2011)

Nope. Dexter. He kills people. So the tegu murks rats. Supposed to Nyways.


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## babyyitslove (Sep 4, 2011)

I like Dexter! Not just the name, but the character. He does what many of us would love to do. Too bad there isn't a vigilante out there now. Too many people have been getting away with some heinous ****.


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## Dirtydmc (Sep 6, 2011)

Ok. So after 3 days of adding suppliments, Dozer finally ate food. Turkey mixed with beef liver, herpavits, and calcium spray. His twitching isn't that bad thank the gods. But any twitching makes me nervous.


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## james.w (Sep 6, 2011)

Can you get some chicken necks? I just picked some up this weekend and my tegu devoured them. They are supposed to be very calcium rich as well.


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## HerpDLP (Sep 6, 2011)

Just a Thought Her From My Own Experiences with Colombians, 
But Try Cutting Out The Liver From The Diet, 
But Keep The Calcium And Multi-Vitamins Along With The Turkey, 
The Reason For This Is Colombians Can Twitch From To-Much Iron 
Basically It is Like An Iron Overdose. . . 

Hope This Helps. . .


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## laurarfl (Sep 7, 2011)

I would cut the herpvite to no more than twice weekly. But keep up with the calcium on every meal that does not have bones. The spray is calcium and not Vit D, right?

I started feeding chicken necks after reading about it on this site. They can be hard to find, though. One store told me that only the stores that cut their own chickens have the necks. I bought turkey necks but the bones are too large and passed through. Cutting them can be a pain. My big tegus can slurp down the chicken necks pretty easily, but the little guys have to have them chopped up.


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## Rhetoric (Sep 7, 2011)

I've also gotten turkey necks before. Guru was still itty bitty so I had to pull the meat off it and cut it up really small. Now they everyones larger I'm probably going to get them again when thanksgiving comes around.


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