# purple tiger albino albino red, and purple albino



## spikeleebd (Oct 18, 2012)

i got my reptile magazine today and noticed a new morph of tegus . they are called purple albino and purple tiger allbino red tegu. The come from undergroundreptiles and I was wondering has anybody had a chance to see these lil guys in person. They are very beutiful


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## james.w (Oct 18, 2012)

There are quite a few posts on here about them. They aren't a new morph as they haven't been proven.


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## spikeleebd (Oct 18, 2012)

well from what iwas reading about them they aren't argentine tegus they are from paraguay. i have been thinking about geting 1 but if they are not proven i want the papers for these beauties because underground is doing some good work in my opinion


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## james.w (Oct 18, 2012)

Argentines and Paraguay are so close it is nearly impossible to tell the difference unless you picked them up yourself from Paraguay. Papers prove nothing at this point, in order to prove a morph you have to breed them to prove the trait.


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## spikeleebd (Oct 18, 2012)

So why is it that undergrounds tegus aren't proven if nobody else is breeding tegus like theirs


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## Ujarak (Oct 18, 2012)

First off people labeling tegus as from paraguay is purly a marketing ploy. Unless they went to paraguay themselves and collected these tegus there is no way to know. Second what they are are hybrid tegus. 75% blue 25% red. From what it looks like both parents carried the albino trait and what you end up with is an albino hybrid. They are not some new morph its just an existing morph on a hybrid.


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## spikeleebd (Oct 18, 2012)

ok thanks for the education but you guys can't lie they are some beautiful guys if you go and look at the feed on their site


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## Deac77 (Oct 18, 2012)

They are good looking but the guy at underground himself said they incubated wrong and had some complications with them it's not known yet if it will breed out yet I do agree they are amazing animals but the price tag is a little to high this year


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## spikeleebd (Oct 18, 2012)

yeah i didn't read that. If he is messing with the incubation that is really messing with mother nature


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## Deac77 (Oct 18, 2012)

It was accidentally done his thermostat messed up from what I understand but that's not what made the morph color


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## TegusRawsome80 (Oct 18, 2012)

They don't appeal to me in any way but it's a matter of opinion I suppose.


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## Deac77 (Oct 18, 2012)

I like the paradox ones


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## tegus4life (Oct 18, 2012)

I think they're pretty but definitely not worth the price tag. I'm curious to see if they'll breed out


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## DavidRosi (Oct 18, 2012)

I recently saw a video of them; think it was posted on the "tegus from around the world" Facebook; which on an extra note, I love checking everyday. 

From what I could see, they seemed healthy enough and yes; visually pleasing... I, however, am not a fan of albino reptiles. I'm sure it's a long, blown out "virtual argument" waiting to happen but breeding something that's not overly tolerant to uv that needs constant uv seems a little, cruel?


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## tegus4life (Oct 18, 2012)

yeah I saw that too, and I agree. The whole idea of inbreeding to such an extent just to keep a "morph" going also doesn't sit very well with me.


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## DavidRosi (Oct 18, 2012)

And also noticed in the video one of the 'gus had a pretty nasty kink in his tail at the top; but that wasn't one of the albinos.


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## KABIKANO (Oct 18, 2012)

They look kool but 5 racks?!?!? K'mon... I guess if you got it, get it.


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## Renske (Dec 12, 2012)

What I saw was that they cut open the eggs! You americans do that all the time... but thats not done in europe. You just don't do that. Its realy bad for there healt... If you take them out bevore they are ready they are not fully done. Helping them out when there head is out of the egg is also not a realy good plan... It makes the animals stronger when they have to fight. If tested it on many animals. The helpt baby where often weak and small. Good babys how fight out of the egg where much bigger and stronger. Weak died but that is how it sould be. Becouse if we keep on breeding with weak animal, we only get more weak animals and they get invertile...


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Dec 12, 2012)

_I agree with most of what you have to say, but you could have phrased the beginning better. Instead of generalizing a whole nation of people by the acts of a few. Not everyone who breeds cuts their eggs, pulls the babies out or even assists. Regardless of nationality some of us have no problem letting nature take it's course. 

I'm sure you'd rather not be generalized as a European with a negative context, so why not have the same consideration for others.

Doing so gives off an air of superiority and ethnocentrism with a racial undertone. _


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## laurarfl (Dec 12, 2012)

A lot of snake breeders cut the eggs, but tegu breeders do not. This is the only instance that I know of where people were cutting eggs and selling babies the same day at a show. Definitely not standard practice.


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## Dubya (Dec 12, 2012)

I do not like the idea of breeding for color morphs. It always leads to inbreeding since the gene pool for a morph is very much smaller than the regular color. When I breed hedgehogs, I try to breed for the normal color, but because I get my breeders from many different places, some other colors do pop out. I keep my gene pool as diverse as possible, but because of selective breeding, it is inevitable that I get color morphs even when breeding standard colors together. I find the morphs to be weaker than the natural color in any animal. Just my 2 cents.


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## Deac77 (Dec 12, 2012)

Also it's important to not that underground doesn't cut all their eggs the standard practice is to tickle the egg that's it no cutting 

These were cut because the incubator malfunctioned causing the temps to get to high (at least what he stated in the video) and the eggs where getting hard


Not defending underground but I've watched a TON of their videos on tegu eggs hatching and most the time it's just tickling I don't see much cutting


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## laurarfl (Dec 12, 2012)

At the Daytona Expo they were cutting them out to be sold on the spot.


Tickle and if nothing happens, try again later. I think a lot of it was profit motivated. They were cutting tegus out of eggs at the Daytona expo and selling them on the spot. I would never think to buy or sell a tegu that young. And I'm not being judgmental, he says he is profit motivated in his own videos.


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## Deac77 (Dec 12, 2012)

Whao! Didn't know that! I just go by what I saw lol (and yes we all know he's profit motivated


Whao! Didn't know that! I just go by what I saw lol (and yes we all know he's profit motivated


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## Renske (Dec 12, 2012)

@Bubblz
I am not a racist. I think its my english, so I can't tell it how I mean it. It just that I never have seen a european cut open eggs. Its just not don here. But almost every time I watch an american video I see them cut open eggs. 
I am not against morphs if you do it The right way. And the right way takes years! My boyfriend and I breed blue waterdragons. My boyfriend started 15 years ago and even now its not perfect yet. But the divereds is. Our blue waterdragons are realy strong and bigger than green waterdragons. Someone els with no knowleg of genetics tryed to breed bleu with one of our baby blue in 5 years. Problem was.. They inbreeded to much... Brother to sister and so on... Now we can't sell our blue anymore becouse there blues are so weak they have lung and hart problems. There bones are so soft they break realy easy. Moost waterdragons they sell die after 2 to 4 years. They stay very small and males look like females


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## mattlagrone19 (Dec 12, 2012)

Selling as soon as they for reptiles is ok though right.... Cause wouldnt they be on there own from day one in the wild.. I mean they are not dogs or cats who benifit from there mothers milk.... ...


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## Renske (Dec 12, 2012)

Deac77 said:


> These were cut because the incubator malfunctioned causing the temps to get to high (at least what he stated in the video) and the eggs where getting hard
> 
> 
> Not defending underground but I've watched a TON of their videos on tegu eggs hatching and most the time it's just tickling I don't see much cutting


I think its not a good reason to cut them out. If they die, its not meant to be. They are too weak to love. If you help them and breed again and cut open the eggs... Then after to many weak breeds they can't get out off the egg anymore at their own... Then you destroyd your morph


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Dec 13, 2012)

_I didn't say you were racist.

Just to explain when I said, "Doing so gives off an air of superiority and ethnocentrism with a racial undertone" was in reference to using phrases like "You americans do that all the time... but thats not done in europe". When ever people say "you americans, you people" and things like that it's usually with negative context. As if you're better than them for what ever reason and that's where the superiority and ethnocentrism comes in and the racial undertone usually follows with those two things. Superiority and ethnocentrism practically breeds racism which is why it's still an issue today.

Just because you have seen videos of people in america (or where ever) cutting their eggs doesn't mean that all americans do it. It doesn't matter how many videos you have seen. As you explained with the water dragons, ...it's the same as me saying All of you Europeans inbreed your blue water dragons, we don't do that here in America. 

Sometimes it's not just what you say but how you say it. You don't want to be put into or even associated with the same people that inbreed their water dragons, even though you don't do what they do it still affects you. So have that same consideration for other people. 

Regardless of who or where we are, we are not all the same nor do we do the same things._


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## Brittneym (Dec 13, 2012)

Well said^^


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## chriswizz (Dec 13, 2012)

Brittneym said:


> Well said^^


 i would say that tegus are definatly not ready for new homes the minute they hatch, some are strong & some are week. some can only manage egg yolk for the first day or 2 these definatly wouldnt survive in the wild. but with care they soon strengthen up. i wont sell my babies until there 1 month old so that i know there strong & healthy & have had at least one full shed & piled on a fiew gramms.


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## TeguBlake (Dec 13, 2012)

Bubblz Calhoun said:


> _I didn't say you were racist.
> 
> Just to explain when I said, "Doing so gives off an air of superiority and ethnocentrism with a racial undertone" was in reference to using phrases like "You americans do that all the time... but thats not done in europe". When ever people say "you americans, you people" and things like that it's usually with negative context. As if you're better than them for what ever reason and that's where the superiority and ethnocentrism comes in and the racial undertone usually follows with those two things. Superiority and ethnocentrism practically breeds racism which is why it's still an issue today.
> 
> ...



Tons of respect to you now, and look at there eggs would you think you could survive in an egg like that:/


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## Renske (Dec 13, 2012)

Bubblz Calhoun said:


> _I didn't say you were racist.
> 
> Just to explain when I said, "Doing so gives off an air of superiority and ethnocentrism with a racial undertone" was in reference to using phrases like "You americans do that all the time... but thats not done in europe". When ever people say "you americans, you people" and things like that it's usually with negative context. As if you're better than them for what ever reason and that's where the superiority and ethnocentrism comes in and the racial undertone usually follows with those two things. Superiority and ethnocentrism practically breeds racism which is why it's still an issue today.
> 
> ...



You are right.  Sorry for my wrong way of saying it. 
It just I have never seen someone in europe cut open eggs. And if you tell or show you do, you will have no life anymore... People will not like it very much in the netherlands or europe. But in the USA I see it so often. I do a lot of research about breeders in america becouse I would like to learn how you guys do it. In europe tegus are not that popular so not a lot of people breed them... 
I hope too breed my own tegus in the future. We have red, blue and blank and white. The black and white and 2 of the blues are adult next season.


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## Deac77 (Dec 13, 2012)

Renske said:


> Deac77 said:
> 
> 
> > These were cut because the incubator malfunctioned causing the temps to get to high (at least what he stated in the video) and the eggs where getting hard
> ...



The thing is its a business he does this for a living it's his only means of income when you have one if your best selling items look as they may go south it is a decent reason to cut. They are not like us this is their JOB that could be why there isn't a decent tegu population in the Europe because that's no ones Only means of income


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Dec 13, 2012)

_That's okay, I just had to put that out there because your not the only one on this forum who says things like that. Just because you haven't seen anyone in or from Europe post a video like that doesn't mean no Europeans are doing it. More than likely they just know that it's best not to broadcast it.

I wish you the best of luck with your breedings, I know you won't have any problems selling them over there. Especially if you're able to ship or work something out with folks near by. There's always new people on here asking about tegu availability or breeders who ship in that area._


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## spikeleebd (Dec 13, 2012)

im pretty sure in europe their is someone that tickles their egss to say that only americans do it is very preposterous. I studied microbiology at Texas A&M and herpetologists do it all the time on alligator, crocodile, tort eggs etc etc. They also do it at zoos and universities in australia. it does not harm the herps. Most of the time they do it if the herp hasn't broken through the egg in a suitable time. Sometimes it saves their life. underground reptile might be all profit ,but at least they admit it and I can respect that instead of them pulling the wool over our eyes like At least he isn't stealing people's money like Bobby


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## Renske (Dec 13, 2012)

spikeleebd said:


> im pretty sure in europe their is someone that tickles their egss to say that only americans do it is very preposterous. I studied microbiology at Texas A&M and herpetologists do it all the time on alligator, crocodile, tort eggs etc etc. They also do it at zoos and universities in australia. it does not harm the herps. Most of the time they do it if the herp hasn't broken through the egg in a suitable time. Sometimes it saves their life. underground reptile might be all profit ,but at least they admit it and I can respect that instead of them pulling the wool over our eyes like At least he isn't stealing people's money like Bobby



Then we do not agree.


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## laurarfl (Dec 13, 2012)

It doesn't matter if it is someone's only source of income or not...The idea of breeding is to make stronger lines or at least not to create a weaker one.

And sure tegus hatch out and are on their own....but these guys are not in the wild. They are hatched in an incubator which may or may not have had ideal situations. I think most people who have bred tegus have that horror story of deformities and bad clutches. The relatively large number of hatchlings tells us that not all offspring are meant to survive. 

As a business person, you can choose to sell the babies minutes after they hatch because of fear of losing that sale, or you can talk to the customer, arrange shipping a week later and let a young tegu have a chance to show that it is strong enough to be one that will be OK. It is capitalism, so no one has the corner on the market or the wrong or right way of doing things. I wouldn't feel comfortable selling or buying a hatchling that soon is all.


The egg cutting is a debated topic here in the US as well. Some herpetologists do it and some do not.


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## Renske (Dec 14, 2012)

laurarfl said:


> It doesn't matter if it is someone's only source of income or not...The idea of breeding is to make stronger lines or at least not to create a weaker one.
> 
> And sure tegus hatch out and are on their own....but these guys are not in the wild. They are hatched in an incubator which may or may not have had ideal situations. I think most people who have bred tegus have that horror story of deformities and bad clutches. The relatively large number of hatchlings tells us that not all offspring are meant to survive.
> 
> As a business person, you can choose to sell the babies minutes after they hatch because of fear of losing that sale, or you can talk to the customer, arrange shipping a week later and let a young tegu have a chance to show that it is strong enough to be one that will be OK. It is capitalism, so no one has the corner on the market or the wrong or right way of doing things. I wouldn't feel comfortable selling or buying a hatchling that soon is all.



I agree. 
I never sell weak animals.. If they are weak I let them die, or don't make them suffer. If I deside he can have a good enough Life and he does not die I will keep it my self. If you cut open eggs. They miss the strugle too life and you don't know wath is wrong. You sell it and someone breeds with it and its babys will be also weak. Or the animal I sell will have problems all his life. I don't want that for the animal or the new owner.


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## Deac77 (Dec 14, 2012)

Renske said:


> laurarfl said:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't matter if it is someone's only source of income or not...The idea of breeding is to make stronger lines or at least not to create a weaker one.
> ...



I don't agree with selling weak animals or reptiles right after they hatch but for a business I don't see a problem with cutting they do it for a living if half your stock dies well its good bye life line breeding and inbreeding are bad I agree but sorry to say I doubt anyone in the uk that does this as their means for survival isn't cutting


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## laurarfl (Dec 15, 2012)

It is not the cutting by itself, for me it was cutting and selling the same day.

I had a group of 6 eggs or so that did not hatch out of this last clutch. I tickled and they wiggled, but never pipped. I let them be and then decided to cut maybe a week later. They had all died. Why this group and not others? They were in a separate box, maybe they had temp spikes. But the whole box was apparently not strong enough to hatch on their own.


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## Renske (Dec 15, 2012)

laurarfl said:


> It is not the cutting by itself, for me it was cutting and selling the same day.
> 
> I had a group of 6 eggs or so that did not hatch out of this last clutch. I tickled and they wiggled, but never pipped. I let them be and then decided to cut maybe a week later. They had all died. Why this group and not others? They were in a separate box, maybe they had temp spikes. But the whole box was apparently not strong enough to hatch on their own.



If they are too weak too get out, and die. They are meant to die. Wen you cut them out, you have animals with healt problems, how get babies with problems. This could be one of the reasons the blue tegus in America have healt problems and albinisme. Albinisme is often a sign of weak genetics...


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## Ntyvirus (Dec 17, 2012)

Would albinism be an indicator of that certain gene not necessarily a weakness?


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## Deac77 (Dec 17, 2012)

Ntyvirus said:


> Would albinism be an indicator of that certain gene not necessarily a weakness?



Yup


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## chelvis (Dec 17, 2012)

The problem with albinism in tegus is there need and love for UVB. UV on an albino can cause eye issues and skin issues. Albinism itself does not mean that that animal is weak, its not seen often because those animals are not suited to live in the wild (too easily seen and eaten as babies). in captivity many albino animals do well, especially nocturnal ones. Tegus basking in the sun can do damage to there eyes due to no pigment to help protect them. As for is it right or wrong to breed a UV needing animal that cannot tolerate UV is up to each breeder.


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## Deac77 (Dec 17, 2012)

chelvis said:


> The problem with albinism in tegus is there need and love for UVB. UV on an albino can cause eye issues and skin issues. Albinism itself does not mean that that animal is weak, its not seen often because those animals are not suited to live in the wild (too easily seen and eaten as babies). in captivity many albino animals do well, especially nocturnal ones. Tegus basking in the sun can do damage to there eyes due to no pigment to help protect them. As for is it right or wrong to breed a UV needing animal that cannot tolerate UV is up to each breeder.



I agree 100% I would hate to put something like a tegu through that but a Lucy or snow would be a cool alternative


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## Jeremyxb12 (Dec 17, 2012)

laurarfl said:


> It is not the cutting by itself, for me it was cutting and selling the same day.
> 
> I had a group of 6 eggs or so that did not hatch out of this last clutch. I tickled and they wiggled, but never pipped. I let them be and then decided to cut maybe a week later. They had all died. Why this group and not others? They were in a separate box, maybe they had temp spikes. But the whole box was apparently not strong enough to hatch on their own.



If you had decided to cut them that day would they have maybe made it?


I saw some where in here about paraguays and argentines. What are paraguays and how do they differ? sorry i couldnt see the whole thing on my phone thats why


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## chelvis (Dec 17, 2012)

Paraguay is the locality of some reds and black and whites. Really there is no differance, if you saw one next to an Arg you couldn't tell the difference.


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## laurarfl (Dec 17, 2012)

I don't know if they would have made it or if they would have been deformed.

Some tegus are labelled Paraguay but there is no evidence that they actually came from that area. Many animals are raised/caught in one area and then exported out of another to avoid export bans.


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## ameivafan123 (Jun 7, 2013)

Renske said:


> I think its not a good reason to cut them out. If they die, its not meant to be. They are too weak to love. If you help them and breed again and cut open the eggs... Then after to many weak breeds they can't get out off the egg anymore at their own... Then you destroyd your morph


 


Renske said:


> I think its not a good reason to cut them out. If they die, its not meant to be. They are too weak to love. If you help them and breed again and cut open the eggs... Then after to many weak breeds they can't get out off the egg anymore at their own... Then you destroyd your morph


 
Yeah, but to me its OK to cut tegus out of their eggs because their not in the wild. Its cruel to leave an live animal to drown in its egg when its a completely healthy animal and can be saved. and not to be rude but whats the point of letting only the stronger ones survive. whats the point of breeding them for strength. in the long run there meant to be pets. cutting the egg is barely going to affect the animal if you do it right. To me that SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST thing doesn't make sense IN CAPTIVITY they don't have nothing to fear or to fight there just pets.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Jun 8, 2013)

_Old thread but, in most cases if they're not strong enough to make it out of the egg on their own it may be because of health reasons, genetic ones at that. So why pass those genes on? Just because an animal makes it through the incubation process and or development for any baby doesn't mean it was meant to survive (for long if at all) even if so to be bred. Survival of the fittest should still be up held even in captivity, who wants a lemon pet that's a genetic mess especially when most people expect to get healthy pets? I don't know about you but I can think of a whole lot of other things and ways to spend my money other than at a Vet hospital. Strong and healthy animals pass on strong and healthy genes, just the same as weak and sickly ones. Not only in the animal world but people are a testament to that as well._


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## ameivafan123 (Jun 10, 2013)

Bubblz Calhoun said:


> _Old thread but, in most cases if they're not strong enough to make it out of the egg on their own it may be because of health reasons, genetic ones at that. So why pass those genes on? Just because an animal makes it through the incubation process and or development for any baby doesn't mean it was meant to survive (for long if at all) even if so to be bred. Survival of the fittest should still be up held even in captivity, who wants a lemon pet that's a genetic mess especially when most people expect to get healthy pets? I don't know about you but I can think of a whole lot of other things and ways to spend my money other than at a Vet hospital. Strong and healthy animals pass on strong and healthy genes, just the same as weak and sickly ones. Not only in the animal world but people are a testament to that as well._


 
you got a point there. I didnt look at it that way. thanks for clarifying


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## Renske (Aug 3, 2013)

Bubblz Calhoun said:


> _Old thread but, in most cases if they're not strong enough to make it out of the egg on their own it may be because of health reasons, genetic ones at that. So why pass those genes on? Just because an animal makes it through the incubation process and or development for any baby doesn't mean it was meant to survive (for long if at all) even if so to be bred. Survival of the fittest should still be up held even in captivity, who wants a lemon pet that's a genetic mess especially when most people expect to get healthy pets? I don't know about you but I can think of a whole lot of other things and ways to spend my money other than at a Vet hospital. Strong and healthy animals pass on strong and healthy genes, just the same as weak and sickly ones. Not only in the animal world but people are a testament to that as well._


Thank you. My english is not that good. This is exactly what I meen!


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