# New baby Columbian Black & White (Marley)



## Guest (Sep 11, 2010)

Here are some pics of my new baby Columbian Black & White. So far it is very good natured and does not mind being held at all.


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## DMBizeau (Sep 12, 2010)

Very nice Bryan he looks great! Glad to see he is still nice and calm around you.


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## Toby_H (Sep 12, 2010)

Congratts on having one you can handle. I had one many years ago and it was fierce. It's good to see the other side of that spectrum. Congratts...

Just to mention, I believe the 'Common Name' of Black & Gold is more accurate for the Columbians, with Black & White being reserved for the Argentineans. It's no big deal but inconsistencies such as this often lead to misunderstandings.


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## DMBizeau (Sep 12, 2010)

Toby_H said:


> Just to mention, I believe the 'Common Name' of Black & Gold is more accurate for the Columbians, with Black & White being reserved for the Argentineans. It's no big deal but inconsistencies such as this often lead to misunderstandings.



He put "Columbian" in the title I don't think anyone else felt there was any misunderstanding.


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## Toby_H (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree I don't think 'in this thread' there is a misunderstanding about what species of Tegu he has...

But since "Black and Gold" is associated with Columbians and "Black and White" is associated with Argentineans... saying "Black and White Columbian" can cause confusion.

Accuracy in termonology leads to accurancy in communication... and the reverse is also true...


But I don't want to pull the focus of this thread off of your Tegu! I am always impressed when I see dossile Columbians. Having seen how menacing they can be.

What size/type of enclosure are you keepign him in? 

I've heard that Columbians are much more inclined to spend time in water than Argentineans. Do you have any opinion/experience regarding this?


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2010)

I have read that Black & White or Black & Gold can mean a reference to a Columbian Tegu and that Black and White is not just reserved for the Argentines. Anyway he is currently in a home made 2' x 4' x 2' enclosure, with cypress mulch as the bedding, a large water dish for soaking and a hide at one end.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2010)

Yeah my columbian tegu is definitely black and white, not black and gold, so I think columbians can be either. Also I think people should make sure they know what each looks like, and if you're talking about a black and white you should specify either argentine or columbian. There are two types of tegu and both can be black and white. Can't really change that, so you'll just have to learn to live with it.

Anyways, I am happy to see another docile columbian! It shows that these guys have the potential to be just as sweet as the argentines, even if its not as common.


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## slideaboot (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm pretty sure that wholesalers and distributors began calling Colombian Tegus "black and whites" with hopes that people would confuse them with tamer, more desireable (on a popularity scale) Argentine Black and Whites. And, it DEFINITELY worked/works. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but all one has to do is look through previous threads where people ask what kind of tegu they have because it was sold to them as "black and white" tegu.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2010)

I still think its up to the buyer to make sure they know exactly what they're buying...I work at a pet store and I hate it every time someone comes in with a pet they just bought and they don't know what it is exactly or how to take care of it. People should always do their research BEFORE buying their pet so they know what they're doing, its just common sense to me. My tegu only has anything that could be called a gold color on the top of his head. The rest of him is black and white. The vendor I bought him from did not try and hide the fact that he was a columbian tegu. But then again it could be the fact that I asked him specifically about his columbians...


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## slideaboot (Sep 13, 2010)

Daenerys said:


> I still think its up to the buyer to make sure they know exactly what they're buying...I work at a pet store and I hate it every time someone comes in with a pet they just bought and they don't know what it is exactly or how to take care of it. People should always do their research BEFORE buying their pet so they know what they're doing, its just common sense to me. My tegu only has anything that could be called a gold color on the top of his head. The rest of him is black and white. The vendor I bought him from did not try and hide the fact that he was a columbian tegu. But then again it could be the fact that I asked him specifically about his columbians...




Well, I'm not calling YOU out personally, but most pet stores are THE WORST when it comes to misinforming people about reptiles. The absolute WORST. Granted, there ARE knowledgeable folks at some pet stores, the majority of pet stores have ZERO clue as to what they are talking about when it comes to reptiles. I'm not just talking about big chain stores like Petco, either. 

So, I agree with you that people should do research, but many people go to pet stores to get information from people who not only should be, but ACT as though they are knowledgeable about an animal when really they are just clueless and trying to move product.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2010)

I bought him as a Columbian Black & White not as a Gold tegu nor was I expecting to get an Argentine black and white. The vendor was upfront in telling me that it was a columbian and not an argentine. The vendor also sells Gold Tegus and Argentine Black and Whites. From the pics I have seen, the Columbian B&W are mostly B&W with gold or brown coloring that will most likely fade with age, however from the pics I have seen of Gold tegus, they are primarily Black and Gold and as Adults they retain most of the Gold or Brown coloring and have very little white. I did my research and knew I was getting a Columbian. IMO the only reason this has come up for discussion is the fact that Columbians are always given a bad rep and Argentines are favored therefore they get the title of "Black and White".


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2010)

slideaboot said:


> Well, I'm not calling YOU out personally, but most pet stores are THE WORST when it comes to misinforming people about reptiles. The absolute WORST. Granted, there ARE knowledgeable folks at some pet stores, the majority of pet stores have ZERO clue as to what they are talking about when it comes to reptiles. I'm not just talking about big chain stores like Petco, either.
> 
> So, I agree with you that people should do research, but many people go to pet stores to get information from people who not only should be, but ACT as though they are knowledgeable about an animal when really they are just clueless and trying to move product.



Yes I know that, most pet stores are horrible when giving advice about telling people how to care for their pets. Thats part of the reason I was hired - I know a lot about reptiles, snakes particularly, and the store had no employees with a background with reptiles. But thats why it makes me all the more annoyed that people buy animals and expect the pet store employees to tell them what to do with it. Most pet stores put business first before the animals they sell and people should know better than to trust a college student to be the expert on all the animals in the world. I would not be offended in the least if someone asked me a question at work but didn't take me at my word and went home and researched it (or better yet did the research first). In fact, I prefer people do that. Buy a book or ask a REAL expert, like a well-known breeder.



Bryan A said:


> IMO the only reason this has come up for discussion is the fact that Columbians are always given a bad rep and Argentines are favored therefore they get the title of "Black and White".



I think so too. Yes, a lot of Columbians have a bad attitude, but some can be great pets!


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## Toby_H (Sep 13, 2010)

The use of "Common Names" in general invites misunderstand...

Inconsistency and/or redundancy in those common names makes it even more likely...

Tupinambis teguixin, or the Columbian Tegu, like just about egvery species of animal, does show some variety in coloration. Regardless if a Tupinambis teguixin is "Black and Gold" or "Black and White" it is the same species.

Thus calling one line of Tupinambis teguixin "Black and Gold" and another line of Tupinambis teguixin "Black and White", is simply making the false impression of a variance that will likely mislead people.

Creating common names to add value to a less valuable species, or to mislead potential buyers into overpaying, are very common tactics used by less respectable breeders/sellers.

This is not to suggest anyone here bought from a 'bad breeder' or were in any way manipulated. But it is to suggest that utilizing inconsistent and/or redundant contributes to the misleading process that others have begun.

This is by no means limited to Argentinean/Columbian Tegus nor even reptiles.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

--oops, messed up!--


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

But.....my tegu IS black and white. Why call it black and gold when it isn't?? That seems even more misleading to me. Why call it black and gold if its not black and gold? Its not its common name, its what it is. Its common name is Columbian tegu, not black and white/gold.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

If all Columbians are the same, then why does almost every vendor that sales both, and article on the internet, list them seperately as Columbian B&W or Gold Tegus.
It is also my understanding that the Gold ones are considered to be even more aggressive then the Black & White Columbians. Another example would be the Black & White and Blue Argentines. They have the same scientific name but are considered to be 2 different species since they look totally different, as do the Columbian B&W compared to the Gold Tegus.


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## slideaboot (Sep 14, 2010)

Bryan A said:


> If all Columbians are the same, then why does almost every vendor that sales both, and article on the internet, list them seperately as Columbian B&W or Gold Tegus.
> It is also my understanding that the Gold ones are considered to be even more aggressive then the Black & White Columbians. Another example would be the Black & White and Blue Argentines. They have the same scientific name but are considered to be 2 different species since they look totally different, as do the Columbian B&W compared to the Gold Tegus.



Because people are either misinformed (and don't do their research) or they are trying to portray their product as better than it is (they've done they're research and know better, but want to sell you something). It's really easy for a vendor to say that a Black and White Colombian is going to be tamer than a black and gold because most people associate colombian tegus with aggressive behavior while, at the same time, people tend to think of black and whites as being tamer because of Argentine B/Ws. This makes it easier for the vendor to tell people something along the lines of, "Aggressive? Oh no! You're thinking of Black and GOLD tegus...this here's a black and WHITE tegu--TOTALLY different." When the truth is, it doesn't matter if it's black and white or gold--if it's a Colombian, it's got a helluva good shot at being aggressive. 

If a vendor / breeder is misinformed (which happens ALL THE TIME) or if they are simply trying to move more product, this is a potential result. I've been involved in this hobby for years and have personally seen this sort of thing MANY, many times.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

So then what you are saying is that all of the pics on the internet or in books that clearly show a definite difference in coloration between what is called a Columbian Black&White or a Columbian Black & Gold or a Gold Tegu are labeled incorrectly in stating that the picture shows one or the other.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

So, vendors can't separate their Columbians by color simply because Argentine's already have a claim to the title"black & white"? And all vendors that do this are simply misinformed to the fact that their black and whites are not the same color as their black and golds?

I think you're being a bit ridiculous saying that people can't call black and white Columbian tegus black and white, even though they are black and white. Its simply specifying which color the tegu is!


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## slideaboot (Sep 14, 2010)

Daenerys said:


> So, vendors can't separate their Columbians by color simply because Argentine's already have a claim to the title"black & white"? And all vendors that do this are simply misinformed to the fact that their black and whites are not the same color as their black and golds?
> 
> I think you're being a bit ridiculous saying that people can't call black and white Columbian tegus black and white, even though they are black and white. Its simply specifying which color the tegu is!




People CAN call their tegus WHATEVER they want...THAT'S the problem. THAT'S why we're having this discussion...


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## JohnMatthew (Sep 14, 2010)

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There are 2 distinctly colored types of columbians(columbian gold and columbian black) but I believe they're both still called Tupinambis teguixin, maybe just different locales like the argentine B&W and extreme/chacoan giants.

BTW, grats on your new tegu!!


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## slideaboot (Sep 14, 2010)

Bryan A said:


> So then what you are saying is that all of the pics on the internet or in books that clearly show a definite difference in coloration between what is called a Columbian Black&White or a Columbian Black & Gold or a Gold Tegu are labeled incorrectly in stating that the picture shows one or the other.




What I'm saying is that a colombian tegu is a colombian tegu. The end.


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## JohnMatthew (Sep 14, 2010)

> What I'm saying is that a colombian tegu is a colombian tegu. The end.



Whether or not the tegu was columbian was never an issue, he labeled it as such when the thread was started. I don't see the big deal in calling it black and white or black or gold or black and gold, so long as people know what they're getting and are prepared to take care of their GU as the OP seems to fulfill both these criteria I say let it go.

The only thing that irks me is when stores label their tegus straight by the colors without adding columbian or argentine. They either don't know the difference or are trying to pull a fast one on some unwary customer by jacking up the price on a $15 wholesale lizard, neither of which are good sales practices in my book.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

JohnMatthew said:


> http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2957&p=35277&hilit=columbian+tegu#p35277
> 
> There are 2 distinctly colored types of columbians(columbian gold and columbian black) but I believe they're both still called Tupinambis teguixin, maybe just different locales like the argentine B&W and extreme/chacoan giants.
> 
> BTW, grats on your new tegu!!




Thanks, for the congrats. I was never trying to say that they are two totally different species. I agree it is another example of two different locales, like Argentine Black & Whites and Blues, are they both not called Tupinambis merianae, yet vary in color greatly, in a few studies the blues are even listed as a possible locale of the Columbians, from what I have read.


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## slideaboot (Sep 14, 2010)

OK...I'll let it rest. Maybe there are black and golds and black and whites...my bad. However, from your pics, wouldn't you say that yours is a black and gold? Those are definitely the colors that I'm seeing in the body. What makes yours a black and white?

By the way, congrats on not only getting a 'gu, but a HANDLEABLE 'gu! That's rad.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks, I will post some more pics of closeups of his sides and tail to show the white. From the top he does show the gold coloring, but on the sides and belly there is mostly white and black. I can even see where the gold looks like it is fading into white.


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## slideaboot (Sep 14, 2010)

Bryan A said:


> I can even see where the gold looks like it is fading into white.



Maybe that's it...do they go through a color change?


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

I am not claiming to be an expert by any means, but I did a lot of reading and research before I decided to get the Columbian versus the Argentine Black & White. Here is what I have seen from different pics of columbian tegus and from the reading that I have done. 

The ones called Black & Whites, as young start out with a gold or brown striping or coloring on the head and backs fading into primarily black and white on the sides and belly, down to the base of the tail, further down the tail there is distinct black and white stripes and no brown or gold coloring. As they age the brown or gold usually fades away and leaves black and white stripes or spotting with little to no gold coloring left. The Black and White Columbians also have narrower striping that on some animals looks more like spots or broken stripes. Similar color changing to the Argentine Black & whites that start out with bright green heads that fade away with age.

On the other hand the ones referred to as gold tegus or Black & Gold columbians start out with gold or brown and black being the main colors with very little to no white. The stripes or spots are also more defined and wider than the ones on the Black & white columbians. The coloring tends to not fade as much as they age compared to the Black & White Columbians.
Below are some pics that I found on the internet. 
Columbian Black & White Tegus
Baby





Adult






Gold Tegus
Baby




Adult


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2010)

Really, it all comes down to this...

Let's say you have two identical 1996 Toyota Tacomas. One is white, the other is green. Are they two different trucks? No. They're both 1996 Toyota Tacomas. Just a different color.

It's the same with Columbian Tegus. Black and Gold/Black/Gold/Black and White... it's doesn't make a freakin' bit of difference; they're all Tupinambis Teguixin. What people fail to remember at times, is that this is a polymorphic species we're talking about; there are going to be differences in coloring. Until scientific discovery proves that a Columbian "Black and White" is a different species from a Columbian "Black and Gold" (such as what was done with the Argentine B/W and the Argentine Red), then this whole discussion is a moot point.

I'm just happy for you that you've gotten a healthy reptile that you love. Congrats!! He looks amazing!!


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2010)

nordica said:


> Really, it all comes down to this...
> 
> Let's say you have two identical 1996 Toyota Tacomas. One is white, the other is green. Are they two different trucks? No. They're both 1996 Toyota Tacomas. Just a different color.
> 
> It's the same with Columbian Tegus.



Thats exactly what I was saying. Its simply a color difference. No reason you can't separate them by color!


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2010)

I was trying to say they are just different colors also, not that they are 2 different species.


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## Stef41 (Sep 15, 2010)

I purchased a Columbian Tegu at a local reptile expo a while back. I fell vicitim to the "Black and White Tegu" confusion...he looked so similar to the Tegu's I'd researched.

After I got him home however, I realized he wasn't exactly like the "pictures" I'd seen, so I investigated and sure enough he was a Columbian! 

He was sweet as could be...he would let me hold him, pet him, etc. And I held him VERY often, he was my little buddy.

After awhile however, his temperment started to shift and he began to live up to the "aggressive" nature people often associate with Columbians. Luckily I had a good friend near by that was actually looking for a Columbian and had experience with them, so he adopted my little guy.

Jeff (the friend that adopted my Tegu) has quite of bit of experience with Columbians and claims every Columbian he's ever gotten as a hatchling started out nice and relaxed...and it wasn't until later that things change.

Obviously that is not the case with ALL Columbians, and I've heard the few sucess stories as far as taming, but as it pertains to my personal experience...the little guy started out great, but definitely didn't remain that way. 

It was unfortunate, because he was gorgeous and very interesting.


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## Toby_H (Sep 15, 2010)

Since the vast majority of the people here (on this site) have done or are doing their homework, it seems everyone in this conversation has a solid grasp on factual details...

But as we all know, that's nto the case in the 'real world'. Which is why I feel it is important to use consistent termonology that avoids confusion...

For decades Columbia Tegus have been referred to as "Golden Tegus" or "Black and Gold Tegus". It doesn't surprise me one bit that there are locales of Columbians that are "Black and White" in appearance...

But since the nic name "Black and White Tegu" has already been claimed by the Argentina Tegus, I think the hobby would be best served by us not using the term "Black and White Columbians". 

I can definitely see where some members are coming from, pointing out that "Black and White" is a very literal descriptioin of their Tegus colors... but again, since that name has already been spoken for, using the same name to describe a somewhat similar but very different animal, will inevitably lead to confusion (and manipulation). 


There is no Board of Commissioners on reptile common names, therefore no one is 'right' and no one is 'wrong' in this debate. It's simply a matter of what is best (or better) for the hobby as a whole... and each of us have the right to our opinion on what that is...


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## Jungle Girl (Sep 15, 2010)

In my opinion Columbian b/w tegus and Columbian gold tegus, even though they are the same species, are as different as Argentine b/w tegus and Blue tegus. For example they are slight differences in body shape such as Columbian b/w tegus tend to have a broader head, more robust build and they also tend to grow a bit larger than the gold variety. I have owned both types through out the years and every Columbian b/w I have owned end it up being just as tame as the Argentines that I have owned. The Columbian gold tegus on the other hand were extremely aggressive and was not able to be tame down. The Columbian b/w tegus start off with gold coloration down their heads and backs. Much like Argentine b/w tegus start off with green coloration, but both fade to white overtime.The gold tegus on the other hand hatch out with golden colorations and keep it for the rest of their life. I think DNA testing is require to sort out this mess! They are even saying that the "yellow tegu" is actually a form of the red tegu and blended them into one species.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

do all columbians start out as black as black and gold? because iv seen some that are labeled as black ans gold but were black and white...its confusing.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

haha too many blacks....sry bout that


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

Frost, if you look at reply #28 in this post, I posted a fairly common descriptiton of each color, from what I have read.


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