# Would (YOU) buy HDPE enclosure over PVC foamboard cage?



## angel619392 (Jan 4, 2020)

Hi im new to the forum and have a specific goal at least for right now, the goal is to figure out why more people are not using HDPE cages instead of PVC?

Like if somebody can make them and offer them at the exact same prices as other cage makers or priced maybe 10-50 bucks more for a superior cage in every area (Strength) , durability , cleaning, 248 degree heat tolerance what would be stopping you for buying them?? Like proline cages the guy from northwest constrictors who used to make hdpe cages.

So what do you guys think?? 

If a superior product can be made and sold for the same price as PVC what would you personally do? Would you buy it? It sounds common sense to me and hopefully I dont sound dumb but theres always bias in some people even if the facts are there.


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## TripleTegus (Jan 5, 2020)

The problem is that in reality they are not priced the same. Yes it sounds fantastic in theory and if it could be pulled off to the masses it would be great. But back to reality hdpe is a lot more expensive for most people to get their hands on.


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## angel619392 (Jan 5, 2020)

TripleTegus said:


> The problem is that in reality they are not priced the same. Yes it sounds fantastic in theory and if it could be pulled off to the masses it would be great. But back to reality hdpe is a lot more expensive for most people to get their hands on.


I understand HDPE is more expensive but if I could do what I'm saying an to clarify what I'm saying I'll organize it below:
1. Price HDPE cages the same or competitive with the top 3 cage makers like animal plastics , boamaster and boaphile/ reptile basics

2. Structurally and design wise the cage is quality built and easy to assemble for the buyer

I want to see if people would buy it , because I have a legitimate want to solve this problem for a few reasons. 

They are :
1. Provide better caging to the community to shift it from pvc to HDPE

2. It's my hobby I enjoy it

3. As long as I'm not losing money I couldn't care less about the profits. 

4. I could make youtube videos finally on something I'm knowledgeable about (reptiles ) and have an audience


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## TripleTegus (Jan 5, 2020)

Sounds like a what if still. If you can provide the cages then more power to ya. But unless said product is provided it's more like asking every body if they would want a zoo quality enclosure. The answer is of course every one would want it if money was no object. So I think to answer the question yes every one would do it IF it wasn't so expensive.


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## angel619392 (Jan 5, 2020)

TripleTegus said:


> Sounds like a what if still. If you can provide the cages then more power to ya. But unless said product is provided it's more like asking every body if they would want a zoo quality enclosure. The answer is of course every one would want it if money was no object. So I think to answer the question yes every one would do it IF it wasn't so expensive.


 Ok cool I got your opinion. To give a simple response to your statement about everyone would if it wasnt so expensive. I have the solution I could build the cages and offer the same or a slight (20-40$ more than cage makers)

Its more of a matter of researching and seeing if people want to buy these HDPE cages that I know I could build and could supply for competitive price . And by competitive prices I'm talking about 20-40$ more expensive or same prices as some other cage makers like animal plastics

I just would need to establish a reputation of making a good cage first because I understand there will be skeptics at first but I have to break that barrier.


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## TripleTegus (Jan 5, 2020)

Well this might be the wrong place to try and market something like that. Being this place is specially for tegus most people build their own cages because the requirements are so large. But maybe say for one of my medium size species of snake an hdpe cage appropriately priced would be a great option if said product was of nice quality of course. That seems to be something your gonna have to take a chance on and build a prototype or 2 so that people have something to get their hands


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## angel619392 (Jan 5, 2020)

TripleTegus said:


> Well this might be the wrong place to try and market something like that. Being this place is specially for tegus most people build their own cages because the requirements are so large. But maybe say for one of my medium size species of snake an hdpe cage appropriately priced would be a great option if said product was of nice quality of course. That seems to be something your gonna have to take a chance on and build a prototype or 2 so that people have something to get their hands


Marketing is not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get the idea out because it's a hobby first and it's too deep to get into it but I'm also a web developer so the fact I can build website for myself and show it to other people also helps me out in the tech industry. Besides that though the prototype thing is not hard. I have a few people who bought locally who I reached out to and told them to leave honest reviews on forums. That for sure would help. But I agree I'm into tegus and building the enclosures is part of the fun even though it's kinda scary. But sheesh a plywood enclosure would cost $500 max for a super sturdy and great looking enclosure 8 x 4 x 4. But again it would be nice to see if people would buy it even though it's not my main focus. I'm weird I want to affect the hobby someway. I'm ambitious and I feel making cages , YouTube and establishing a reputation can help me do that. So its deeper than selling. I make a great income in california of web development so the profit of cages isnt the main priority as long as I'm not losing money either.


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## Walter1 (Jan 5, 2020)

TripleTegus said:


> Well this might be the wrong place to try and market something like that. Being this place is specially for tegus most people build their own cages because the requirements are so large. But maybe say for one of my medium size species of snake an hdpe cage appropriately priced would be a great option if said product was of nice quality of course. That seems to be something your gonna have to take a chance on and build a prototype or 2 so that people have something to get their hands


Good point


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## angel619392 (Jan 5, 2020)

Walter1 said:


> Good point


What is a good point?


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## Mamasaurus (Jan 8, 2020)

IMO I wouldn't. I understand HDPE has higher melting and is lighter weight. However, PVC is less expensive and stronger. Though heavier we don't really move around a 6x3 or 8x4 enclosure very much and the stand can have wheels for that purpose. If someone wanted to go HDPE instead of PVC they'd make it themself. JMO.


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## angel619392 (Jan 8, 2020)

Mamasaurus said:


> IMO I wouldn't. I understand HDPE has higher melting and is lighter weight. However, PVC is less expensive and stronger. Though heavier we don't really move around a 6x3 or 8x4 enclosure very much and the stand can have wheels for that purpose. If someone wanted to go HDPE instead of PVC they'd make it themself. JMO.


Id like to reply back to this because PVC is vague I should have been clear, technically you are right PVC type 1 and type 2 are way stronger than HDPE but cage manufacturers use XPVC or expanded foam board pvc which is weaker than HDPE.... Actual PVC sheets like type 1 or 2 are over 200 bucks for 1/2 inch thick material so they dont use that. They use pvc foam board AKA expanded pvc or foam board pvc. But again my fault for not being specific.... By the way HDPE means High Density Poly ethylene.


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## angel619392 (Jan 8, 2020)

Oh and more thing. HDPE is more expensive than foam board pvc which is why people dont use HDPE because it costs more which is why I wanted to make cages out of it and sell it within 50$ of animal plastics prices for their cages. By the way for bigger lizards like tegus HDPE would also have the added practical benefit of impact absorption literally. In layman terms it can handle hits likes kicks or in this case a tegu slamming against the cage and absorb the impact and not break like PVC foamboard would. There is literally test of this even big construction forklifts dropping claws on HDPE and it does not break look it up on youtube... Not that a tegu would have that much force to break something but its nice to know....


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## TripleTegus (Jan 8, 2020)

angel619392 said:


> Oh and more thing. HDPE is more expensive than foam board pvc which is why people dont use HDPE because it costs more which is why I wanted to make cages out of it and sell it within 50$ of animal plastics prices for their cages. By the way for bigger lizards like tegus HDPE would also have the added practical benefit of impact absorption literally. In layman terms it can handle hits likes kicks or in this case a tegu slamming against the cage and absorb the impact and not break like PVC foamboard would. There is literally test of this even big construction forklifts dropping claws on HDPE and it does not break look it up on youtube... Not that a tegu would have that much force to break something but its nice to know....


Ok all high n mighty lumber yard worker being a super douche is not the way to get people to try n take you seriously. If your just gonna be all snobby about something nobody here is gonna give you a second look


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## Walter1 (Jan 8, 2020)

angel619392 said:


> What is a good point?


That people here tend to build their own enclosures. 

As for would keepers on this site consider that material for building an enclosure, that worth your asking.


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## Mamasaurus (Jan 8, 2020)

angel619392 said:


> Id like to reply back to this because PVC is vague I should have been clear, technically you are right PVC type 1 and type 2 are way stronger than HDPE but cage manufacturers use XPVC or expanded foam board pvc which is weaker than HDPE.... Actual PVC sheets like type 1 or 2 are over 200 bucks for 1/2 inch thick material so they dont use that. They use pvc foam board AKA expanded pvc or foam board pvc. But again my fault for not being specific.... By the way HDPE means High Density Poly ethylene.


Yes, and PVC is polyvinyl chloride. Thanks. "It's worth a google." I wasn't being rude. You asked for our opinions. I own a Gu not a velociraptor so PVC is sufficient, it's already 75$ a sheet. May the odds be ever in your favor with your enclosure endeavor.


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## angel619392 (Jan 8, 2020)

TripleTegus said:


> Ok all high n mighty lumber yard worker being a super douche is not the way to get people to try n take you seriously. If your just gonna be all snobby about something nobody here is gonna give you a second look


What??? I did not think I was being a douche at all, I came objectively I never mentioned anybody personally I just wanted to give the facts, I mean if you think I was being a douche please tell me where because my whole point of the thread is to inform people why HDPE is better than PVC and why I think I can close the expensive price gap between them. I get people make their own cages but I have seen people who will buy enclosures because they are scared of the idea of building one. There is a youtube video of a guy owning a tegu who bought a 1200 dollar AP enclosure.


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## angel619392 (Jan 8, 2020)

Mamasaurus said:


> Yes, and PVC is polyvinyl chloride. Thanks. "It's worth a google." I wasn't being rude. You asked for our opinions. I own a Gu not a velociraptor so PVC is sufficient, it's already 75$ a sheet. May the odds be ever in your favor with your enclosure endeavor.


My bad bro I did not mean to come off rude if you interpreted that way. I just type the way I think in my mind, I have to be more aware of my typing now because triple tegu thinks I am a douche for stating facts. But yeah my bad if it sounded rude I just wanted to be clear in what I was trying to say....


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## angel619392 (Jan 8, 2020)

Walter1 said:


> That people here tend to build their own enclosures.
> 
> As for would keepers on this site consider that material for building an enclosure, that worth your asking.


Ahh true, true.... I remember being 14 and wanting one because I felt comfortable owning one but I realized we were semi poor and building an enclosure would be expensive and I had no knowledge of how to... Now I have more resources to do it and been working since 16 close with carpenters so I learned a lot. But yeah I agree people make their own enclosures but there is always people who prefer not to touch a saw and make their own, its a fear I can relate to when I first built mine at 16. So I can understand both sides...


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## angel619392 (Jan 8, 2020)

But yeah my whole point of this thread was to get feedback and see if people were receptive to a HDPE cage because they are literally better than XPVC in every way which is what people are using unless they want to get actual PVC type 1 which is 200 for a 1/2 inch sheet of 4 x 8... PVC is great but HDPE is better I just looked at how ed from northwest constrictors could not stay in business because hdpe was more expensive than PVC an people were going with the cheaper price cages..... So I thought if I could come with HDPE cages that are great quality and priced within $50 bucks of PVC cages from companies like Animal Plastics im doing good for the reptile community... I really do not care too much about profits as long as I do not lose money, I manage a lumber yards website which pays handsomely and do side jobs for other companies, this cage building is a hobby... I also plan on making a reptile website to offer value to people for free. I want to offer info I wish I would have known being a brand new reptile owner like buying light fixtures from home depot for 5 bucks instead of a overpriced 20 dollar small light fixture at petco.. I want to create that website where people will be like "Yeah go to ---------- you will learn what you need there" Specifically for tegus , ball pythons, carpets, and green tree pythons and beardies because I owned all of them before but because of circumstances had to give them away to people I knew can take care of them... But yeah I mean its deeper than trying to sell just cages... Its a genuine problem I want to fix (PVC being inferior and cheaper to make cages out of, so ill make HDPE cages and price very close to companies like AP plastics) and make a website to offer valuable time and $ saving info... On top of it also make youtube videos about me building the cages and caring for my animals. All as my hobby like a lot of you guys have.. So sorry if TRIPLETEGUS if you felt insulted but all my comments are either mean to inform or take in feedback. Ill be more aware of my typing because im not a douche , I am honest almost bluntly honest but I mean good.


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## Mamasaurus (Jan 8, 2020)

angel619392 said:


> My bad bro I did not mean to come off rude if you interpreted that way. I just type the way I think in my mind, I have to be more aware of my typing now because triple tegu thinks I am a douche for stating facts. But yeah my bad if it sounded rude I just wanted to be clear in what I was trying to say....


I'm not an easily offended person but on top of saying "btw, HDPE is high-density polyethylene" and wrong since polyethylene is one word, as if I'm a moron, who doesn't know what the plastic is you then decided to continue with yet another post and literally breakdown wtf the meaning of impact absorption is. So, yeah. Have a good one. Thank you very much Triple.


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## angel619392 (Jan 8, 2020)

Mamasaurus said:


> I'm not an easily offended person but on top of saying "btw, HDPE is high-density polyethylene" and wrong since polyethylene is one word, as if I'm a moron, who doesn't know what the plastic is you then decided to continue with yet another post and literally breakdown wtf the meaning of impact absorption is. So, yeah. Have a good one. Thank you very much Triple.


We are adults I already apologized and explained I did not mean what I said in a bad way and I did not even think anybody would take it in a bad way... But I feel like im being made the bad guy so have a good day


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## Mamasaurus (Jan 8, 2020)

Yes and I'm obviously a woman given that my profile shows I'm female and my tag name is Mamasaurus.


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## bocacash (Jan 10, 2020)

Chill TripleTegus...and Mamasaurus....we're all friends here with a common interest...Tegus ! One of the shortcomings of texting is the lack of body language/voice inflection which is at least half of human communication. I was surprised by YOUR remarks...as I think angel619392 was conveying a real request for feedback on a project/possibility that he is very passionate about ! My advice: Build it, price it right, and they will come ! Good luck angel !


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## bocacash (Jan 10, 2020)

Mamasaurus said:


> I'm not an easily offended person but on top of saying "btw, HDPE is high-density polyethylene" and wrong since polyethylene is one word, as if I'm a moron, who doesn't know what the plastic is you then decided to continue with yet another post and literally breakdown wtf the meaning of impact absorption is. So, yeah. Have a good one. Thank you very much Triple.



UUUMMM...HDPE is correct ! 
https://www.boedeker.com/family/pol...heet&msclkid=c4dd1f7779311c1a7374416e17f781a5


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## Walter1 (Jan 11, 2020)

bocacash said:


> Chill TripleTegus...and Mamasaurus....we're all friends here with a common interest...Tegus ! One of the shortcomings of texting is the lack of body language/voice inflection which is at least half of human communication. I was surprised by YOUR remarks...as I think angel619392 was conveying a real request for feedback on a project/possibility that he is very passionate about ! My advice: Build it, price it right, and they will come ! Good luck angel !


Thanks for input Boca. Been mulling it over myself, as the feeling of insult seemed misplaced. Solid insight on your part. Thanks.


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## Mamasaurus (Jan 11, 2020)

I was kind and I offered my honest feedback. I didn't give the answer he wanted but I did give an honest and empathic one to be fair. I thought the dialogue would be nice. Then it was broken down to me, with my thread specifically tagged, like I was stupid. I apologize if I was out of line but I got defensive. There absolutely was reason to feel that he was being rude by the verbiage. Also, I do know what HDPE stands for. I was just pointing out it's one word not two, like "if you're going to insult me at least do it properly" type of thing because it did absolutely did come off really condescending.


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## Walter1 (Jan 11, 2020)

Mamasaurus said:


> I was kind and I offered my honest feedback. I didn't give the answer he wanted but I did give an honest and empathic one to be fair. I thought the dialogue would be nice. Then it was broken down to me, with my thread specifically tagged, like I was stupid. I apologize if I was out of line but I got defensive. There absolutely was reason to feel that he was being rude by the verbiage. Also, I do know what HDPE stands for. I was just pointing out it's one word not two, like "if you're going to insult me at least do it properly" type of thing because it did absolutely did come off really condescending.


I agree. We're better than using the word douche.


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## TripleTegus (Jan 11, 2020)

The specific post I quoted was very arrogant and condescending. I felt someone was being attacked and made to feel inferior. I will not apologize for that


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## angel619392 (Jan 11, 2020)

Mamasaurus said:


> I was kind and I offered my honest feedback. I didn't give the answer he wanted but I did give an honest and empathic one to be fair. I thought the dialogue would be nice. Then it was broken down to me, with my thread specifically tagged, like I was stupid. I apologize if I was out of line but I got defensive. There absolutely was reason to feel that he was being rude by the verbiage. Also, I do know what HDPE stands for. I was just pointing out it's one word not two, like "if you're going to insult me at least do it properly" type of thing because it did absolutely did come off really condescending.



You said I did not like your feedback which is not true and that is your subjective opinion .. I read it... took it in and then replied with the facts... if you go back you'll see I corrected you when you said PVC is stronger which is true but cage makers use XPVC so I was correcting the context on the way you used the word PVC... Then I simply just gave an example of how its durable with the forklift example... You then went on to say you have a Gu not a velociraptor... That's fine but I gave that example in case somebody else read the thread they could understand why HDPE is superior over pvc. But I appreciate the feedback I really do I was just correcting something you said in your first response to the thread and stuff was just misinterpreted for a insult or condescending way of saying something. It's just a misunderstanding lol it's all good. I just felt genuinely confused thinking what did I do??

But it's fine I do not take stuff personal. In the business world I've dealt with people who will do actions that can make you get really angry so you have to have thick skin like legit. I've been to prison and trust me having thick skin in there is a must but in business it's on a whole other level because in prison you solve stuff with violence but in business it's about wits.. Anyways I'm glad we were able to get our sides of this out...


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## angel619392 (Jan 11, 2020)

bocacash said:


> Chill TripleTegus...and Mamasaurus....we're all friends here with a common interest...Tegus ! One of the shortcomings of texting is the lack of body language/voice inflection which is at least half of human communication. I was surprised by YOUR remarks...as I think angel619392 was conveying a real request for feedback on a project/possibility that he is very passionate about ! My advice: Build it, price it right, and they will come ! Good luck angel !


Thank you. I'm glad the both sides of our interpretation came out(mamasurus and I)..


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## angel619392 (Jan 11, 2020)

But yeah I basically have figured out the cost of stuff and got the numbers... Now it's about saving the money I need to make these.. I'll be able to get this done by march latest but more like February.. I'll make some DIY guides on making HDPE cages on here and youtube and then also I'll have a website that will offer valuable info that will save people getting into the hobby time and money. Of course stuff for advanced tegu, ball pythons, berries, green trees and carpet python info too. That's my plan


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