# Hurray For Chicken Necks!



## carcharios (Jun 23, 2010)

I just got back from our local Giant Supermarket and they had chicken necks for dirt cheap. I can't believe how fast my tegus wolfed them down. These seem like the perfect food for larger tegus. They're lean, have bone in them for a nice calcium source unlike regular chicken breast or turkey balls, and they're natural - and really, really cheap I should add. Anyone else feed their tegus chicken necks?


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## Pikey (Jun 23, 2010)

i tried turkey neck, but they wanted nothing to do with it (i had to use a axe to cut the stupid thing in half they are really hard)
But i might try chicken necks


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## carcharios (Jun 23, 2010)

They wolfed down the chicken necks. I even heard some crunching noises and my tegus cracked the vertebrae. They had no problems going down. For anyone else out there who can't afford to feed live food like mice, etc. I would think chicken necks would be a decent substitute considering that they consist of both meat and bones for the tegus calcium requirements. And if tegus are feeding on nestlings in the wild anyway, I don't see why bird necks wouldn't be a nutritious. Don't get me wrong, I still mix it up with canned tuna, shrimp, eggs, and turkey balls with supplements added to them. But the chicken necks seem to be a great healthy alternative and again, they're very inexpensive. A whole pack was only a little over a dollar and each neck is about the size of a full grown mouse.


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## Herplings (Jun 23, 2010)

Ill give them a try.

Glad they worked out for you.


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## VARNYARD (Jun 23, 2010)

I am a little afraid of whole chicken bones myself, I had some impaction problems one time from wing bones.


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## goodtimes (Jun 23, 2010)

The chicken necks sound like a good thing to me. 

To Bobby,

If the larger bones pose a problem, is it simply a digestion issue? ( they cannot fully break them down before trying to pass them?) If so, how about putting them in plastic wrap, or something to keep them together, and breaking them up with a meat mallet to make the bone pieces smaller? This way they get the whole bones, meat, and such without the large bone pieces. It would only take a minute to do. Maybe a cheese cloth or bakers parchment would work to keep the necks from getting all over the place while slamming with the mallet.


I am gonna try it tomorrow. Let me know what you all think?


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## VARNYARD (Jun 23, 2010)

Yes it was a problem with not digesting them, but I do think your idea would be safer for the animal.


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## DMBizeau (Jun 24, 2010)

Couldn't breaking the bones up cause sharp pieces of bone inside the neck? I would think this might lead to a problem as well with sharp edges.


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## tora (Jun 24, 2010)

Well they shouldn't be too sharp, they only splinter once they're cooked.


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## DMBizeau (Jun 24, 2010)

tora said:


> Well they shouldn't be too sharp, they only splinter once they're cooked.



uhh, no bones are actually more prone to splinter when they are raw. If they are fully cooked they crumble alot easier. I am sure with the small size of the neck bones it won't be to big of an issue.


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## Rudd (Jun 24, 2010)

DMBizeau said:


> tora said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Actually, Tora is correct. This is a common mistake for people to make and is why many dogs are in the vets office because of feeding them cooked meat with bones.


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## tora (Jun 24, 2010)

Hm, I've always heard/read that the only reason dogs/cats can't eat cooked meats is because the cooked bones splinter a lot easier, and thus are far more likely to stab through their insides or get the jagged edges lodged in their throat. The cooking makes them a lot more brittle, not crumbly. Personally, I've seen that raw bones are far less sharp, because they still have all the goodness in them so while still solid, they're soft. 

After reading your comment I re-checked my info, and everything says that if you're going to feed bones, make sure they're raw.


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## DMBizeau (Jun 24, 2010)

my mistake then, good to know.


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## carcharios (Jun 24, 2010)

I don't get it. When we give our tegus rats and mice, don't they digest the bones? I've seen fur in their stool but never bones. Don't they need to digest the bones to get their calcium intake? And in the wild, they're feeding on carrion and birds, which just happen to have BONES in them. Aren't we going a little too extreme here with all our precautions?


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## HerpDLP (Jun 24, 2010)

carcharios said:


> Aren't we going a little too extreme here with all our precautions?


just my view on this and what i know from working on criminal forensics cases, i do think people tend to forget and me included. 
we have to keep in mind most places in the wild they do not have chickens just on the loose in abundance and most flightless birds have much more dens bone composition and compared to that of the bone density & composition of a smaller birds that do fly it is a huge difference. 
a reptile has some of the strongest digestive acids/juices there is but if bone is to dense this will still pose a issue with captive reptiles..


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## goodtimes (Jun 25, 2010)

I can definitely see both sides of the issue. If you (anyone) has a decent butcher in their local market I am sure he/she would be more than happy to grind up just about anything you ask. Have them grind up the chicken necks and there you go, nice ground up calcium and protein for your children!


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## carcharios (Jun 25, 2010)

I hear what you're saying about flightless birds having more density in their bones, but from what I recall from my trips to Mexico, Venezuela, and Costa Rica, there are plenty of forest birds (not chickens) that occur in those regions and South America as well that are larger than chickens - and my guess is that they're on the Tegu's menu. There's even a south american version of our very own turkey! If anything, I would think that Tegus would feed more on these ground birds than the smaller birds passerine (song birds) because the smaller birds capable of flight would be more difficult to obtain.

Also, Tegus naturally feed on smaller lizards as well - another food item that contains vertebrae just like the chicken necks do. And what about the fact that they feed on fish along river banks - yet another organisms with vertebrae? Or carcasses of organisms that most definitely would contain bones? I'm not sure why the fuss about chicken necks all things considered.

These lizards evolved to handle these food items. It's not like we're giving them something unnatural. Millions of years of evolution have accounted for the fact that their food contains bones. In my opinion, they're fully capable of consuming and digesting chicken necks. However, IF I notice any complications, I will be sure to post them.


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## chelvis (Jun 25, 2010)

Chicken necks i don't see a problem with, but anyhting you have to cut with an ax i would avoid. Not because their is a problem they can't digest it but more so the problem they can't swallow it safely. I've had to chop cow legs in half with an ax and it doesnt matter if the bone is raw or cooked, hitting it with that much force can cause splitters, this is where the problem arises. 

If the bone is still covered in meat to protect it while traveling to the stomach, my guesse is that the food is safe. In the wild when they catch a bird or large fish or come apon a carcass they don't eat the whole thing unless they can swallow it. A chicken is too big to swallow. So what they do instead is tear into it and eat the organ meat first. Then they'll eat the surrounding meat. They amost always will leave the outer parts of the animals and yes the larger bones. Most are too large for them to crush. Now on some animals with easy to brake bone, like domestic chicken or reptile or even fish, they might go ahead and eat a few of the smaller bones but most of the time this is done while eating the meat. If you don't belive this take a look at a wild large monitor (kamodo dragons are best at this). I've give my tegu an xl-gpig for his birthday last year and he tore it to pieces and he did leave a few bones that i got lucky to clean up. 

SO what i'm saying is your tegus know thier limits, but don't give them whole bones (cooked or raw), unless its part of a bigger meal.


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## carcharios (Jun 25, 2010)

The chicken necks I feed my guys are about the size of a mouse. They swallow them whole, do the neck bend trick to get them down and that's about it. I'm still waiting to see what their stool looks like. My guess is that it will take some time to digest the meal so I may be waiting a few days...


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## chelvis (Jun 25, 2010)

lol that big of a meal, you might be waiting quite a while.


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## carcharios (Jun 25, 2010)

Well, Frieda, who only ate one chicken neck defecated today and there were no signs of the bones. My guess is that she digested them. I never see any mouse bones either, just hair balls. I'm thinking that the bones get digested and absorbed. 

Kimo, on the other hand has not pooped yet and I'm concerned about him because he's been ingesting some of the cyprus mulch when he eats. I need to finish their new cage ASAP!


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## Dom3rd (Jun 25, 2010)

I think i am going to just keep an eye on posts about this topic and i might try chicken necks with mine when i return home from deployment..


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## Herplings (Jun 25, 2010)

carcharios said:


> Kimo, on the other hand has not pooped yet and I'm concerned about him because he's been ingesting some of the cyprus mulch when he eats. I need to finish their new cage ASAP!



You could try giving him a warm soak. The warm water, plus the swimming in the tub seems like it makes them poop a lot.

Keep us posted.


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## carcharios (Jun 25, 2010)

I'd give him a soak but that would entail getting my hand ripped off. He's got attitude lately. I may have to feed him first to get him calmed down and then try the soak. Of course, I'll be wearing gloves when I handle him.

As for the chicken necks, make sure you can find them. I live in MD and right now is crabbing season so our local markets are stocked up. Again, they're super cheap - a dollar or so for a whole carton, which would probably feed both my adult tegus for an entire week! In fact, I went to Giant yesterday and purchased 6 more cartons to hopefully last me much of the summer. They also happened to have gizzards and hearts so I purchased a few cartons of those too.


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## carcharios (Jun 26, 2010)

Verdict is in: Kimo finally defecated (a huge one I should add) and there are ZERO bones in his stool - and he's eaten at least 7 necks over the past week or so. 

There are however some pieces of cyprus mulch, which means he's at least passing some of the what he's ingested. Anyway, thought you guys would like to know. Guess they do digest the bones.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2010)

i agree.expecially if u feed them younger chicken,seeing as they are not fully developed.although the necks are prolly from older ones.the bones in a neck are not as hard because they need to bend there neck to look around so im guessing that they would be less likely to splinter.but thats just my opinion.=]


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## brutus13 (Sep 24, 2010)

I think I would rather be safe than sorry!


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## carcharios (Sep 25, 2010)

There is no danger in feeding these guys chicken necks. I have fed my tegus them all summer long with no issues whatsoever. You have to remember that the throat and stomach of these reptiles is pretty tough. Think about the food items they consume in the wild. They're eating birds, fish, other lizards, crustaceans, carrion, etc.

Also, my adults consume entire chicken necks so the bones are covered with flesh and not exposed. They literally slide down their throats. I do cut the necks up for my younger tegu but you can see that even when cut up, the bones are pretty rounded and smooth. They're not like fish spines or the smaller thinner bones found in chicken wings.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2010)

Raw/uncooked chicken bones do not splinter and are not brittle like cooked bones. Raw bones are soft and easily broken down, believe it or not.

My dogs, cats and ferrets are fed raw, natural diets with raw bones and anyone who feeds raw can tell you that raw/uncooked bones are SIGNIFICANTLY safer than cooked.

There are always these scares about chicken bones and chicken meat being dangerous to consume. I'd be more concerned if you were feeding you tegu chunks of WEIGHT bearing bones such as from cattle femurs, ox tails, pork leg bones, etc.

I personally think a large tegu could handle some soft chicken bones. My ferrets who're much smaller than an adult tegu can take down chicken AND turkey necks with ease.


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2010)

The chicken necks that you would buy are from 4 or 5 month old chickens .. The ones they sell for animal [mink ect ] are called spent hen and have feathers and feet and all they should be run through a commercial grinder . They are the old birds ..


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## eddyjack (Oct 24, 2010)

So I'll be paying more attention to the "Little Wise Owl"! Seems to have the skinny on the bones! Great Post!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2010)

eddyjack said:


> So I'll be paying more attention to the "Little Wise Owl"! Seems to have the skinny on the bones! Great Post!


 
 D'aww, thanks. 

People usually just shrug my advice off and always argue with me. I didn't learn about raw diets for nothin'  Not to mention, I'm going to college for animal care and I've learned a thing or two as to WHY there's so much scare about raw diets and the like. 

I'm not an expert on Tegus but I do know a thing or two about how raw diets process in our more common carnivorous pets (dogs, cats, ferrets, etc) and I can tell you that most, if not all, healthy cats/dogs/ferrets can easily and safely eat a natural, raw diet. Heck, maybe a diet VERY similar to that of a tegu.

People will go on and on and ON about how my animals are going to get impactions from bones or salmonella or whatever but I don't think we're giving our pets much credit. Cats are still partially wild... Dogs are successful scavengers who eat the most bizarre things and live healthy lives... They weren't made to eat bowls of heavily processed food. No animal is. These animals are designed to hunt, kill and consume other animals. Raw meat, organs bones and all.

From reading one of Bobby's articles on Tegu's dietary habits in the wild... I just think we might be underestimating their ability to handle food. From what I read, they seem to be very successful scavengers. They break into beehives to eat honey, they break into chicken coops, they're unaffected by fire ants... They can swallow whole animals and digest their ENTIRE skeleton, meat and organs... They will eat carrion, pet food, insects, invertebrate.... And they also successfully digest fruits, vegetables, and leafy greens (something dogs, cats and ferrets CANNOT do naturally) I think they're well equipped to handle chicken bones, rabbit bones, quail bones, etc (Though anything larger than these animals might be pushing it. Turkey wings are more dense than chicken wings. Same goes for turkey legs.) Raw chicken bones are often recommended as the best starter raw food for cats/dogs/ferrets because their bones are the softest and easiest to digest. 

Don't quote me on this (regarding tegus). I'm just merely speculating and kinda putting two-and-two together with my knowledge on raw meat/bone diets and how they're handled by the common pets that people think only eat commercial food. 

I just think we under estimate our scaley (and furry!) friends sometimes. They're a lot tougher than you'd think.

*[SIDE STORY regarding swallowing whole bones]:*
When I was starting my boston terrier puppy (tiny dog) out on a raw diet, I brought her a chicken wing and was holding it tightly in my hand so I could get her used to the chewing of bones... Little did I know how strong she was. She RIPPED the whole wing out of my hand and swallowed it whole... I nearly had a heart attack. I worried all day about her getting an impaction... My worrying was for nothing. Later that day, she pooped and there was absolutely no trace of the chicken bone. To be sure, I waited for her to poop a few more times and same result. No evidence of bone.... 

Just an interesting story to share. PUPPIES can even digest whole bones. Tiny puppies too. lol


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2010)

I raised eight to ten thousand mink for years .. Mixed raw chicken and raw fish with crumbles through a huge grinder and then a mixer .. Several thousand pounds a day .. Dogs tho will twist a gut on that tho after time ...


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm confused as to what you mean by "twist a gut" lol

I'm also a little perplexed as to what you're getting at as well. :chin 

Technically, a dogs diet should consist of a vast variety of protein sources (not just chicken and fish and also given that the dog doesn't have a certain sensitivity to a certain protein source i.e chicken)


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## tora (Oct 27, 2010)

I think they might be talking about when a dogs stomach flips, I guess it normally happens when a large breed dog eats too much. Otherwise, I have no idea what they are talking about. lol.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

Yeah, that's bloat. Which is actually pretty serious ): 

But has nothing to do with a dog eating raw meat.


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## tora (Oct 27, 2010)

Maybe they were implying that real meat is more appetizing, so they eat more? Idk.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

Possibly. lol

Guess we just have to wait for a reply.

OP, how have you tegu(s) been since you've been feeding them chicken necks?


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2010)

Twist a gut is bloat when the stomach flips and they bloat .. You shouldn`t feed your dog a raw diet They can have lots of raw things but I learned that .. The cereal [ crumbles ]has wheat and vitamins and you add extra medicines and vitamins as needed ...It is true it really dosn`t have much to do with anything other than we were talking raw diets chicken and fish. bones ect . I have experence with feeding truck load after truckload of it ...


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2010)

Yeah, I know what bloat is and it's more likely to happen with a dry food kibble diet rather than a raw diet. 

In a quick search to help back up what I'm talking about, I came across a few websites. This one had a pretty helpful list of how to prevent bloat and I'd have to say I agree with what they say.

"-Do not feed dry food exclusively, 
-Feed a high-protein (>30%) diet, particularly of raw meat,
-If feeding dry food, avoid foods that contain fat as one of the first four ingredients
-Reduce carbohydrates as much as possible (e.g., typical in many commercial dog biscuits)
-Feed a high-quality diet (Whole, unprocessed foods are especially beneficial)
-Avoid brewer's yeast, alfalfa, and soybean products"
Source

Sorry for hijacking the thread, OP.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2010)

I haven`t feed dry kibble for decades ... I raise and hunt big game hounds [bear and mt lion] I often have up to twenty dogs not counting puppies . ..When you run those dogs like I do you find out right away you cant keep meat on them .with store bought food .. These dogs are out of the same line Ive had for years and long ago when I fed kibbles I never had one twist ... Over several years on the raw food I had four twist . The vet said it was the raw food .. I cook the chicken now then mix with crumbles ..Fifteen years not a one twisted .. But I have never done a scientific study on it so do what you think is best ..


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## slideaboot (Oct 29, 2010)

I love this forum. Good discussions.  Especially about everything that's come up in this thread.


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## eddyjack (Oct 29, 2010)

Oh My! I still have to agree that some of us take away far to much from just letting our pets do what comes natural! I don't like all the processed foods. Some yes but just like everything else! All in moderation!Nice post little Owl!


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2010)

Interesting, Montana. I have nothing to say, whatever works for your dogs, I guess.

I really have to wonder why you'd experience bloat with raw and not kibble. Perhaps just coincidence? It makes no sense to me. And a vet pointing at the raw diet doesn't surprise me at all.


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