# how young



## Bntegus (Mar 15, 2012)

how young has anybody had a female lay eggs. this is the second female i have had lay eggs under a year thanks billy.


----------



## RamblinRose (Mar 15, 2012)

Why would anyone willingly want to breed one so young? All it will do is take so much out of them and they will never grow to their full potential, yet stay small. That is just.... never mind.


----------



## reptastic (Mar 15, 2012)

How could a tegu under a year possibly even produce eggs? As rose mentioned its way to dangerous to both the female and the offspring(If the eggs are even fertile),DO NOT BREED A TEGU UNDER 3 y/o


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 15, 2012)

if they are fed proper how is it dangerous i never said for anyone else to try this. and the first female that i had do this is 5 years old and just healthy. just was asking didnt no the tegu cops where here and still never got a answer that is all i asked


----------



## reptastic (Mar 15, 2012)

There are no tegu police here, 1st of all a 5 y/o tegus reproductive organs are fuly matured wereas ategu under a year even if it didn't hibernate and grew fast its still not fully matured,2)its dangerous because the tegu is stil developing, when she reproduces it takes a lot from her body, therefore its taking away valuable nutrients she needs for growth and development 3) the hatchling couldn't possibly get what they need to develop into heathy izards and may have various complications


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 15, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> how young has anybody had a female lay eggs. this is the *second female i have had lay eggs under a year *thanks billy.





Bntegus said:


> if they are fed proper how is it dangerous i never said for anyone else to try this. and *the first female that i had do this is 5 years old *and just healthy. just was asking didnt no the tegu cops where here and still never got a answer that is all i asked



_Which one is it? The second female under a year old that you've had lay eggs or was the first one actually 5yrs old and therefore mature enough to do so. Another question to ask would be what's a good age to breed a female. When you ask how young even though you've already done it, you're sending all the wrong signals, it's an all around red flag.

There's money involved (always is) when people risk it and they usually don't care much about the animal. If so,.. why take the chance and try it_


----------



## james.w (Mar 15, 2012)

He is saying the first female that laid before a year old is NOW 5 years old. I don't think he was asking anyone's opinion but rather if anyone else had experienced females laying as young or younger than his.


----------



## Dana C (Mar 16, 2012)

I wonder if the Tegu in question was really under a year old???


----------



## naturboy87 (Mar 16, 2012)

Purl is only 2 years she layed 44 eggs and is doing grate she is geting so big she might have anuther cluch by the end of spring . Roxy is bulding her nest right now every day and she is like 4 years but still much smaller then Purl. the experenced breeders that i have spoke have told me that it has nuthing to do with age but with size . a huge 2 year old female can easly be reddy . wher sum girls might take 5 years to get big enuf to handle a cluch of eggs ... and so how would u stop your female frum laying eny wase i mean she gets huge and obisuly full of eggs and so u just let her go threw all the stress of laying an infretil cluch .. y would u ever do that when she will mate and go threw the same stress that she would have laying an infurtle cluch but insted u can try to rase the eggs and make babbies . its not like u can MAKE them breed they have to be verry happy and realaxed to purduce eggs


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 16, 2012)

james.w said:


> He is saying the first female that laid before a year old is NOW 5 years old. I don't think he was asking anyone's opinion but rather if anyone else had experienced females laying as young or younger than his.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 16, 2012)

naturboy87 said:


> Purl is only 2 years she layed 44 eggs and is doing grate she is geting so big she might have anuther cluch by the end of spring . Roxy is bulding her nest right now every day and she is like 4 years but still much smaller then Purl. the experenced breeders that i have spoke have told me that it has nuthing to do with age but with size . a huge 2 year old female can easly be reddy . wher sum girls might take 5 years to get big enuf to handle a cluch of eggs ... and *so how would u stop your female frum laying eny wase i mean she gets huge and obisuly full of eggs and so u just let her go threw all the stress of laying an infretil cluch* .. y would u ever do that when she will mate and go threw the same stress that she would have laying an infurtle cluch but insted u can try to rase the eggs and make babbies . its not like u can MAKE them breed they have to be verry happy and realaxed to purduce eggs



_Last I read tegus don't have issues with dystocia if they're not bred, infertile follicles are absorbed. But that could easily change with some peoples husbandry and the way they continue to breed them too early.

So to stop the female from laying, that's an easy fix keep her separated from males. Why even put her through the stress of dealing with the male if she's too young, not big enough and or just not ready._


----------



## reptastic (Mar 16, 2012)

/bubblz is correct, also i'd like to add naturboy your tegu purl is a giant they are able to carry eggs at 2 y/o, b/w's its 3 y/o, no matter how you want to spend it its dangerous to the tegu


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 16, 2012)

lol i didn't no that a giant was different. and what do they do in the wild run from a male no if they are ready to breed they do. i do not keep my tegus inside in a small enclosure all of mine are outside year around with heat and food everyday so if you wait tell you are ready to breed your female then you are the one changing nature not me.


----------



## reptastic (Mar 16, 2012)

well obviously you dont know tegus, in the wild if a female dosnt want to breed yes she will run away, they have open space to get away, putting her in a cage with a male she dosnt have much space to escape regardless of how large it is, let me explain a lil bit about tegus that you obviously dont understand, tegus grow rapidly their first 3 years and then slows down, when they breed it takes alot of calcium from her body to form the shells and othe vitamins and nutrients to support the embyo, when you breed any animal too early it takes a toll on the females body, she is still gowing therefore if the eggs are taking all the nutrients from her body she dosnt have anything left to support her own growth and development, giants are a bit different in the breeding area not only are the females larger but they sexually mature faster than b/w's in fact they grow faster also, do a bit of reseach


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 16, 2012)

im sorry you feel this way i never tried to hurt anyone's feeling just was asking a question. and what difference does it make how old they are if they are well supported they will breed without any danger to themselves the first female that did this 5 years ago was around 3feet and 9lbs at one year. and i never said they where bw they are blues so you are talking about something that was never answered in my question i never said what they were and now your saying if they were giants it would be possible? i think you are doing just fine with the animals you have so i dont think you should tell me to research anything because you still are not getting anywhere by proving they cant breed under 3 who wrote the text book on this theory. also you are sitting here telling me what iv done wrong and have not helped me one bit witch i never asked for any help just was asking if anyone else has seen this before so you are doing a really good job at helping anyone that would like to breed there tegus or would like to learn something new sorry if this hurts anyone's feeling


----------



## Compnerd7 (Mar 16, 2012)

A female human can have a child at age 14, that doesn't mean physically or mentally she should. Any responsible parent would not let their 14 year old daughter live in the same *house* unattended with a bunch of guys. Hormones would end up getting the best of her, ending up in a bad situation. The metaphor translates over to reptiles. 

If, on a rare occasion, a very young female Tegu in the wild was mated with, she would become stressed out with a burden her body wasn't ready to handle yet. She would more then likely die young if her clutch succeeded. More then likely, she wouldn't be able to procure enough nutrients to produce a clutch, and would more then likely die.


----------



## reptastic (Mar 16, 2012)

im not getting your point, if i see something thats wrong i will speak up and that in itself is help, breeding a tegu at 1 y/o just because it can lay an egg isnt fair to your tegu whethers its a blue, giant or b/w, anyone who is looking to breed tegus would have to face the blunt truth, i would never tell someone they are doing something right just to make them feel good about themselves, i dont see the rush, but hey its your tegus and you can do as you please


----------



## Compnerd7 (Mar 16, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> im sorry you feel this way i never tried to hurt anyone's feeling just was asking a question. and what difference does it make how old they are if they are well supported they will breed without any danger to themselves the first female that did this 5 years ago was around 3feet and 9lbs at one year. and i never said they where bw they are blues so you are talking about something that was never answered in my question i never said what they were and now your saying if they were giants it would be possible? i think you are doing just fine with the animals you have so i dont think you should tell me to research anything because you still are not getting anywhere by proving they cant breed under 3 who wrote the text book on this theory. also you are sitting here telling me what iv done wrong and have not helped me one bit witch i never asked for any help just was asking if anyone else has seen this before so you are doing a really good job at helping anyone that would like to breed there tegus or would like to learn something new sorry if this hurts anyone's feeling



A little bit of this info would have been helpful if you posted this in your initial question. What species you were breeding in particular. If you just throw in your breeding your Tegu at one year, obviously that looks bad because MOST species should to be 3+ years old. The people who wrote the textbook on breeding are people with decades of experience, and DEEP study into the physiological nature of the Tegu. 



I will get back to you on some of the research done, what goes on in the wild, and scientific reasons why Tegus are breed at a certian age.


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 16, 2012)

_Black and White, Extreme and Blue for now are all considered and or classified as T. Merianae. Blues are typically smaller than the other two.

But you're totally missing the point, no ones saying that they can't breed before they're 3 years old. But why allow it to happen then try to find out how young, how soon and risk the health of the female. 

Why not give them time to grow and mature properly, what's the rush?

A yearling isn't even a sub adult, they still have some growing and maturing to do. So why interfere with that by keeping them together and allowing them to breed. When kept together she has no way of getting away from the male unless you intervene. He can keep trying until she gives in or puts up a fight and causes other issues.

Since it's the second time this has happened you're obviously encouraging it instead of trying to prevent it. But as long as you get viable eggs and hatchlings you can sell, what difference does it make right. I mean if anything does happen to the female she can easily be replaced with one of the babies . Just because they (you) can doesn't mean they (you) should.

Don't get me wrong complications can happen at anytime or age, although less likely when they're mature enough. So why not wait and give them (mother and babies) the best chance possible.

We're suppose to support and encourage proper and responsible care of our pets not the opposite._


----------



## MadameButterfly (Mar 16, 2012)

Compnerd7 said:


> A female human can have a child at age 14, that doesn't mean physically or mentally she should. Any responsible parent would not let their 14 year old daughter live in the same *house* unattended with a bunch of guys. Hormones would end up getting the best of her, ending up in a bad situation.



To be honest that is offensive to 14 year old girls and to guys of any age in general too, you may as well just be saying that any 14 year old girl is hormonally charged and any guy is sexually predator so sex is inevitable. Thats such a horrible stereotype to engender and populate. Cop on! everyone has a choice and in my experience most 14 year olds aren't sex magnets and most men aren't sick enough to try lay a child underage anyway. Next time you make an example try make it less of a stereotype where you tar half the planet with the same brush just because it is something you believe to be true


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 16, 2012)

everybody here is making sense. im not trying to breed tegus at one year. i have always kept pairs together and sometimes 1.2 or 2.4 all close to same age and size i have 35 tegus and and have had a lot more so this happening twice is not like im in it for the money i could produce a lot of them and i will this year my albinos are breeding now so that is just going to start more problems but that is what they do is eat bask sleep and breed. i never asked my question to make people mad sorry if you people think im wrong for what has happen to me.


----------



## james.w (Mar 16, 2012)

reptastic said:


> /bubblz is correct, also i'd like to add naturboy your tegu purl is a giant they are able to carry eggs at 2 y/o, b/w's its 3 y/o, no matter how you want to spend it its dangerous to the tegu



Can you please explain where you came up with this information?


----------



## m3s4 (Mar 16, 2012)

Quote: "that is what they do eat bask sleep and breed"

Sounds like some people I know. 

Most as a matter of fact. 

Anyways, carry on.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 16, 2012)

i like to eat sleep breed oh and drink beer.


----------



## reptastic (Mar 16, 2012)

james.w said:


> reptastic said:
> 
> 
> > /bubblz is correct, also i'd like to add naturboy your tegu purl is a giant they are able to carry eggs at 2 y/o, b/w's its 3 y/o, no matter how you want to spend it its dangerous to the tegu
> ...



I didn't come up with anything, this is from a conversation I had with bobby hill, the female extremes are larger than the female b/w's, his second generation giants 1st bred at 2 y/o while his b/w's at 3y/o, if you place a sexually matured male with a yearling female he will try to breed regardless of her age, if you put a yearling male with a yearling female that is less than likely to occur, it works on both sides male and female although some male b/w's may attempt to breed at 2 y/o


----------



## james.w (Mar 16, 2012)

I won't get into what I think of Bobby, but being that B&Ws and "Extremes" are the same species, it will depend on the individual animal on whether the female will be larger or not.


----------



## reptastic (Mar 16, 2012)

thats still up for debate, no one has proved it one way or another, i still respect bobby hill so i still seek his advice as a breeder


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 16, 2012)

see you just dont get it. i never put a 4 year old male with her. the male and female where around the same age. so all the people that gave me there 2 cents just assumed what they wanted to never even asked anything just assumed i was new to this and never even tried to help if i needed any thanks for all the help.


----------



## Compnerd7 (Mar 16, 2012)

MadameButterfly said:


> Compnerd7 said:
> 
> 
> > A female human can have a child at age 14, that doesn't mean physically or mentally she should. Any responsible parent would not let their 14 year old daughter live in the same *house* unattended with a bunch of guys. Hormones would end up getting the best of her, ending up in a bad situation.
> ...



I apologize If I offended you, as I was writing that example It was hard to word in a way that was delicate, I was only trying to make *metaphor between Human and Reptiles at sexual maturity.* I said " A female human can have a child at age 14, that doesn't mean physically or mentally she should. " I wasn't implying or suggesting that " any 14 year old girl is hormonally charged and any guy is sexually predator so sex is inevitable. " by using words like "can" and "should", it leaves the personal views out. I never said anything about a man having an illegal encounter with an under age girl, I said "guy" or should have said "male", and it's you saying that they are over age sexual predators, not me. We all know hormones run high when you are a teenager, that's a fact. It can cloud better judgement. I should have said Hormones "could" not "would" get the best of her. 

Please realize I was using a metaphor (a literary figure of speech that uses an image, story or tangible object to represent a less tangible object or some intangible quality) between Humans and Tegus. Ovbiously there are huge difference between human reproduction and Reptiles, that being emotions, culture differences, a much more complex courtship and society. *Of course* everyone has the right of choice, I was not using a stereotype, I was using an example; a scientific cross reference between human sexual maturity being early in life before the human is fully grown, and a Tegus sexual maturity being early in life, before it is fully grown.


----------



## james.w (Mar 16, 2012)

reptastic said:


> thats still up for debate, no one has proved it one way or another, i still respect bobby hill so i still seek his advice as a breeder



So if I have a 3' 2 yr old Extreme, she is ok to breed, but a 3' 2 yr old B & W is not ok to breed? I don't get the logic in this situation.


----------



## Riplee (Mar 16, 2012)

I would love to see the picture of 35 tegus~~~


----------



## reptastic (Mar 16, 2012)

james.w said:


> reptastic said:
> 
> 
> > thats still up for debate, no one has proved it one way or another, i still respect bobby hill so i still seek his advice as a breeder
> ...



Well a 2 y/o female giant shouldnt be 3', im sure there are some that may be smaller but i couldnt imagine that small unless they hibernated a long time in that case its best to wait til their older i never said ALL female giants can breed at 2 y/o,but a majority of them are large enough and their bodies can handle it(both of bobbys female extremes bred at 2 y/o), husbandry plays a key role, my female b/w is pushing 2 y/o she'S 44" BUT i wouldnt breed her, every will have different opinions i just stick with the experts


----------



## Dana C (Mar 16, 2012)

Riplee said:


> I would love to see the picture of 35 tegus~~~



I would love to photos of your set up and the 35 Tegus. Are they all tame? I assume they are all imports with the exception of the Albinos. How long has it taken you to get that large a collection? Thirty five is a lot of mouths to feed. 
Just out of curiosity, why join a Tegu forum now when you have 35 of them. 
I really am not trying nosy but curious


----------



## Wil (Mar 16, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> everybody here is making sense. im not trying to breed tegus at one year. i have always kept pairs together and sometimes 1.2 or 2.4 all close to same age and size i have 35 tegus and and have had a lot more so this happening twice is not like im in it for the money i could produce a lot of them and i will this year my albinos are breeding now so that is just going to start more problems but that is what they do is eat bask sleep and breed. i never asked my question to make people mad sorry if you people think im wrong for what has happen to me.



How many albinos do you have? How old are they?


----------



## TegusRawsome80 (Mar 17, 2012)

Reptastic, exactly how many tegu breeding episodes have you seen in the wild? How many tegus have YOU bred? Is there any proof whatsoever that extremes are a separate species than B&Ws? Since black and whites are supposed to reach a smaller size than extremes according to Bobby, then would they not be able to breed at the same age since they are the same size relative to their adult size? Then again, we've all seen examples of Bobby's reliability and trustworthiness. Also, tegus aren't "mentally" ready or not ready to lay eggs, as they don't raise their young. They rely off of instinct on how and where to lay and simply have to be large enough to lay the eggs, so there goes that argument. Comparing tegus to 14 year olds girls on the subject of pregnancy really isn't a fair thing, although guess what, some people do have kids at 14-18 hence shows like Teen Mom and 16 and Pregnant. It's based off size and sexual maturity, and in reality neither of those are based off of age, but rather hormones in the body that come along with that growth and size.


----------



## frost (Mar 17, 2012)

35 tegus? and albinos? i would like to see that too. haha you guys need to take chill pill. id hate to see people leave because of a post. im not taking any sides but everyone is getting too hot and bothered over this. o and heres a new question. can you tell if a female has been breed before? i think my female is around 2 or 3 years old. but guessing from the situation she was in it would be difficult to judge her age and how she developed aside from the missing stuff


----------



## reptastic (Mar 17, 2012)

TegusRawsome80 said:


> Reptastic, exactly how many tegu breeding episodes have you seen in the wild? How many tegus have YOU bred? Is there any proof whatsoever that extremes are a separate species than B&Ws? Since black and whites are supposed to reach a smaller size than extremes according to Bobby, then would they not be able to breed at the same age since they are the same size relative to their adult size? Then again, we've all seen examples of Bobby's reliability and trustworthiness. Also, tegus aren't "mentally" ready or not ready to lay eggs, as they don't raise their young. They rely off of instinct on how and where to lay and simply have to be large enough to lay the eggs, so there goes that argument. Comparing tegus to 14 year olds girls on the subject of pregnancy really isn't a fair thing, although guess what, some people do have kids at 14-18 hence shows like Teen Mom and 16 and Pregnant. It's based off size and sexual maturity, and in reality neither of those are based off of age, but rather hormones in the body that come along with that growth and size.



Are you serious? I don't have to breed tegus to know that a tegu at 1 y/o shouldn't breed, I have raised several tegus and I know at 1 y\o most even at 2 y/o shouldn't be bred under any circumstance, people always try to discredit bobby hill over his extemes how ever just looking at an extreme and a b/w their physical presence is totally different, the same with blues I don't hear this argument with the blues often, its the the same with dogs a chihuahua and a bull mastiff are still both vlassified as canis lupus but clearly they are very different, same with giants blues and b/w tegus, its just amazing how you guys jump on this guy for handling a bad season wrong but before that you all were happy customers and I still don't see how his bad season effected most of you


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

i have stayed of forms because of this kind of stuff i have been looking on here for awhile and i think its time more people come on here and stand up thank you james. i under stand a lot of people here have there tegu pets that is just fine i have some that i have had for 13 years. but dont jump all over me becuase i have done things a little diff then some other breeders or pet owners.
1.3albinos
4.12blues
3.3bw
2.3reds
and hets and lots of eggs


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 17, 2012)

_On the subject of others standing up, I don't know for what but, BnTegus an introduction would be nice and pics of your group like others have requested._


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

thats pretty funny is that why we are here. so if i put up pics of some or all of my tegus and what i have done it will make no difference. i never came on here to show off what i have. i just asked a question and look what it has turned in to. i will post some pics in the picture place on this form.


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 17, 2012)

_If you have what you say you have then that's great, we have another member that may have more experience and different insight then others. 

But I don't see anything funny about it an introduction, other than forum etiquette is just plain old common courtesy._


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

yes it is the right thing to do. i didnt laugh about the endro just how this thread has turned all over the place. also i never said i know more then anybody else. to dana i feed over 100 rats a week and some mice and no they are not tame. 1.1 albinos i have are ch from ron in 2000 and the other 2 are from me as hold backs i do have some wild bw from florida.


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 17, 2012)

_I agree it seemed to be going in the wrong direction but hopefully it'll stay on point._


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

im just trying this to see if i can put pics on here im not good with computers. this is a red that a have bread with a male red to a albino female and this is what you get lol. he is 4 months old.


----------



## TeguBuzz (Mar 17, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> im just trying this to see if i can put pics on here im not good with computers. this is a red that a have bread with a male red to a albino female and this is what you get lol. he is 4 months old.



Looks like an ordinary red to me.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

it is that is what happens. here is one of my blues he is just under 2years old and one of my bw that is 3 or so i cant go outside and take pics because it is raining so i will when i can.here is a blue

sorry not good at this


----------



## Wil (Mar 17, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> it is that is what happens. here is one of my blues he is just under 2years old and one of my bw that is 3 or so i cant go outside and take pics because it is raining so i will when i can.here is a blue
> 
> sorry not good at this





That doesn't look like a blue. Do you have some pics of your albinos?


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

wow what does he look like. and man i went and put a couple pics and the crap is starting again. i think i will just stick with what i do and not come on here. all you people want is pics does that teach you anything they are just pictures now we are going back to lets believe everything the books says because the book has bread tegus lol oh and bobby. nothing against bobby i will start a thread about the things i feel about that. and then i will show real pics and proof this thread was never about what i have done or do so i think i will start new sh$$


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 17, 2012)

[size=small]_Why so defensive? 

The red pic is understandable some times it takes a couple of breeding's before you get a visual albino which is why there are hets. But the Blue pics you posted look like b&w's especially the first one, no doubt is a b&W. 

The second one on the other hand, is very nice but also hard to tell, mistakes happen, could've clicked on the wrong pic but better pics would be nice. _[/size]


----------



## Wil (Mar 17, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> wow what does he look like. and man i went and put a couple pics and the crap is starting again. i think i will just stick with what i do and not come on here. all you people want is pics does that teach you anything they are just pictures now we are going back to lets believe everything the books says because the book has bread tegus lol oh and bobby. nothing against bobby i will start a thread about the things i feel about that. and then i will show real pics and proof this thread was never about what i have done or do so i think i will start new sh$$



He looks like a black and white, chacoan, extreme. What ever people want to label it. I see no characteristics of a blue.

Now to the original topic. To breed a tegu under a year old could be possible but I wouldn't say the norm. Now, the whole 3 year rule isn't a rule at all, it is more of a guideline. There is no studies that I am aware of on the effects of a young females body or lifespan if bred at what is considered too young. 

Bntegu, why get upset? You posted that you have supposedly bred 2 females before they were 1 year olds. You post no proof or findings of it and you question people when they ask for the proof. You and you alone divulge the number of tegus you have and then you get uptight when people want to see pictures.


----------



## reptastic (Mar 17, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> wow what does he look like. and man i went and put a couple pics and the crap is starting again. i think i will just stick with what i do and not come on here. all you people want is pics does that teach you anything they are just pictures now we are going back to lets believe everything the books says because the book has bread tegus lol oh and bobby. nothing against bobby i will start a thread about the things i feel about that. and then i will show real pics and proof this thread was never about what i have done or do so i think i will start new sh$$



you see thats the thing we cant see anything over the internet so when people make claims pics usually help back up their points, you getting defensive because people dont agree with your methods and voicing there opinions is doing nothing at all, you can create as many threads as you like about bobby hill but in the end who are you really hurting? bobby has sucessfully bred thousands of tegus and is still a reputable breeder even after last years fiasco, i bought up my points from discussions with him because face it he know's tegus, you can disagree, also with wil this guy is another reputable breeder, he merely made a statement that it didnt look like a blue to him, so please stop trying to acting like you are a victim of bashing, no one called you out your name or anything derorgitory, the original post was about a yearling tegu breeding and people responded, what did you expect people would give you kudo's for breeding a tegu that young?


----------



## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 17, 2012)

[size=small]_This whole thing smells familiar,.. I have this and that, then not posting pics or proof, getting upset when people ask for it and then disappearing for a while. But I can't find the thread._[/size]


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

look i never tried to breed at one year it just happened that was the start of all this and then it just went out of control what proof do i have to show about that. and the pic of the tegu is a het albino blue im 100%. im sure he is not from bobby. he was bread from blues that are 8 years old that i have had since hatched. im not getting upset it is that every time someone new comes on here there is a hand full that just bash on people and have no clue what they are talking about im sure some wont like to read that but there is a lot that will agree with me.


Bubblz Calhoun said:


> [size=small]_This whole thing smells familiar,.. I have this and that, then not posting pics or proof, getting upset when people ask for it and then disappearing for a while. But I can't find the thread._[/size]



yes that was me i posted about bobby feelings about albinos and blues that they live just as healthy as the rest of tegus. and all they wanted was pics and all i said was my feelings so it all comes down to pics even if i ask a question or state my feelings about something.


----------



## reptastic (Mar 17, 2012)

Pics help prove your claim, i can claim i have 2 tegus, without pics how i can i actually prove to someone i actually have 2 tegus, theres no need for defense


----------



## james.w (Mar 17, 2012)

wil said:


> Bntegus said:
> 
> 
> > it is that is what happens. here is one of my blues he is just under 2years old and one of my bw that is 3 or so i cant go outside and take pics because it is raining so i will when i can.here is a blue
> ...



Are you saying it doesn't look like a blue due to the missing "teardrop"? I haven't seen many blues myself, but the silvery coloring of this one screams blue to me. Is the proof somewhere that all blues have the teardrop?


Bntegus said:


> im just trying this to see if i can put pics on here im not good with computers. this is a red that a have bread with a male red to a albino female and this is what you get lol. he is 4 months old.



Do you have any of these possible het albino reds that have been bred to an albino to see if you can get albino reds?


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

yes i did state what i do have but i do not need to prove that on this thread. being that really has nothing to do with my question. and the only reason i did state what i have is because someone asked how breeding a tegu at one year would happen and i said because i have so many and the way i keep them so then everyone asks for pics i never just through it out there saying i have this many and cant prove it so when its time to prove i will. 

maybe i should have asked what is the youngest a female tegus has laid eggs lol.


james.w said:


> wil said:
> 
> 
> > Bntegus said:
> ...


 i will start a new threat about the reds with pics of them.


----------



## got10 (Mar 17, 2012)

Damn I thought I had alot of Gu's . I PRAY for winter time so i can save some damn money . This dudes got 25 more lizards to feed than I do .He needs to go the same route that i do when it comes down to feeding . The high white looked very nice though . I just hope that he didn't purchase it as a blue .
I am just interested in his housing set ups .I am having to build new cages and free roam my children during the warmer months . I suck at carpentry work.Hence the massive time spent free roaming . LOL.
I am just wondering if these are pets or revenue producing animals . And if they are , how many eggs are you/he putting out a year , because I have seem minimal breeding activity in my animals .Any tips from you would be appreciated on how to get them to "do the nasty".


----------



## Dana C (Mar 17, 2012)

In the first place, try to imagine our curiosity. I asked for pictures because I would love to see how you house your Tegu's and pictures of them as well. When I joined this forum, members asked for pictures which I was excited about sending so everyone could see my babies. It was natural for them to want see them and for me to want to share them.
Most of us have a few reptiles but no where near, the 35 Tegus you say you have. I immediately thought, "Wow how does he feed them all"? Can they have enough human interaction to become and stay tame? Playing with 35 lizards daily has to be really hard. How does he house all of them?
As for the underage breeding, you seem to take exception to the comments of a few very experienced Tegu owners and breeders. When you say things like "I never tried to breed at one year, it just happened", you have to admit that it would send red flags up with a lot of people.
I have only owned as many as three at one time. I don't claim to be an expert but I can tell you that I have done the science. I have read every paper available on the internet about Tegus in captivity and in the wild. If I tried to give you my thoughts and you didn't like them well, that is up to you. You asked a closed end question to begin with. The answer the way you asked the question could only be "yes" or "no".
You have to admit you were looking for more feedback than just a yes or no, right? You got it and now you sound like you are mad because you actually got what you asked for, feed back.


----------



## kellen.watkins (Mar 17, 2012)

im not sure if its a blue either, the high white/silver coloring screams blue no burnt nose or teardrop though, either way very nice tegu  and breeding young i think as responsible pet owners tegus shouldn't be bred that young at the same time tegus know what they want better than we do and if a tegu breeds at one year old and is still healthy (and the offspring are too) i don't see anything wrong with it if anything that female is a beast lol


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

im not trying to be a d$ck i do not breed for the money and i dont breed everything just when they want to or i try something new. i will take pics it is raining i have some im not a pic person as you can see so i will go outside and get all the good stuff when it stops raining. i also have around 50 monitors and iguanas lol and i produce 5000 rats a month so yes i have a lot going on. 


Dana C said:


> In the first place, try to imagine our curiosity. I asked for pictures because I would love to see how you house your Tegu's and pictures of them as well. When I joined this forum, members asked for pictures which I was excited about sending so everyone could see my babies. It was natural for them to want see them and for me to want to share them.
> Most of us have a few reptiles but no where near, the 35 Tegus you say you have. I immediately thought, "Wow how does he feed them all"? Can they have enough human interaction to become and stay tame? Playing with 35 lizards daily has to be really hard. How does he house all of them?
> As for the underage breeding, you seem to take exception to the comments of a few very experienced Tegu owners and breeders. When you say things like "I never tried to breed at one year, it just happened", you have to admit that it would send red flags up with a lot of people.
> I have only owned as many as three at one time. I don't claim to be an expert but I can tell you that I have done the science. I have read every paper available on the internet about Tegus in captivity and in the wild. If I tried to give you my thoughts and you didn't like them well, that is up to you. You asked a closed end question to begin with. The answer the way you asked the question could only be "yes" or "no".
> You have to admit you were looking for more feedback than just a yes or no, right? You got it and now you sound like you are mad because you actually got what you asked for, feed back.



yes dana i did ask the wrong way i do under stand that thanks


----------



## Dana C (Mar 17, 2012)

Great! Now that's what I was hoping to hear! I want to hear about your monitors. I just got my first, a black throat, "Nyeusi Kinabo" and love him.
He is a very calm guy, and is giving me a ton of pleasure.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

black throats are very personal i have a pair.


----------



## Dana C (Mar 17, 2012)

I am going to take my Black Throat thoughts to the other forum which includes other lizards.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 17, 2012)

ks is good for monitors there is a lot of good people here for anything you would want to no about your black throat. you think your tegus or tegu eats a lot and gets big you just wait tell your little guy gets big i have seen them 5foot in one year lol us Berkley did some good studies on them they say they are the smartest lizard hope you have fun with him. thanks billy.


----------



## Wil (Mar 18, 2012)

james.w said:


> wil said:
> 
> 
> > Bntegus said:
> ...





Not only is there a "teardrop" but also the brown or black nose. I haven't seen a blue yet without it, although some are darker and some are lighter. There are also other indicators too. From that picture, I can say that isn't a blue. It looks to be an exceptional black and white though. Better pictures would result in a definitive answer though.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

i think all the little blues have the teardrop this tegu and 4 more of my blues are a lot bigger then most but not as big as bw all they are is a different local it is just like the giant it is just a local.


----------



## Wil (Mar 18, 2012)

Oh, Dana, a good monitor forum to go to is varanus.nl.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

wil said:


> Oh, Dana, a good monitor forum to go to is varanus.nl.



lol i was going to tell him to go there but then i thought about it and fr and the gang can be a little ruff some times well they are on ks to lol


----------



## TegusRawsome80 (Mar 18, 2012)

Yeahhh Frank's pretty offensive sometimes.


----------



## Wil (Mar 18, 2012)

Frank isn't on varanus.nl he is on varanus.net. And he isn't necessarily offensive but more matter of fact.
Blues have not been classified one way or the other. No DNA testing has been done. So I wouldn't be too quick to say that they are just a locale. I would say they are different from regular B&Ws or Chocoans just in the big differences in the hatchlings. They also don't loose the "teardrop" or mark on the tip of their nose as they mature. Is that what your saying yours does?


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

wil said:


> Frank isn't on varanus.nl he is on varanus.net. And he isn't necessarily offensive but more matter of fact.
> Blues have not been classified one way or the other. No DNA testing has been done. So I wouldn't be too quick to say that they are just a locale. I would say they are different from regular B&Ws or Chocoans just in the big differences in the hatchlings. They also don't loose the "teardrop" or mark on the tip of their nose as they mature. Is that what your saying yours does?



sorry yes frank is on varanus.net lol. mine all have the same color blue just some have the bigger head and all the hets i have also have the big head. out of all my bw they all have a different nose head not two look a like and so on with reds and blues so do your albinos look like blues im saying nose head and so on mine dont they all smaller all around my male is only 9lbs and 40inchs i dont really get what we are try to figure out here if you dont think the pic i sent isnt a blue thats fine.


----------



## Grendel (Mar 18, 2012)

Along the lines of breeding tegus, I was able to finally confirm to myself that my B&W is a male (38 inches long about 2years old) and my extreme is a female ( 40inches, almost 2 yrs old). they live in the same outdoor enclosure and hibernated together. will the breeding just happen spontaneously or is there some coaxing needed.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

the only help they need is support like heat food clean water somewhere good to lay eggs and more food. when i get a female ready to breed i will feed her as much as she will eat if she will eat five rats a day i give them to her and i keep the male just fed well but on the lite side dont no if this helps but that is what i do thanks billy.


----------



## Grendel (Mar 18, 2012)

So I guess it will happen sooner or later as long as I support them nutritionally. Do you build a nest box, or let them make their own ( I got cypress mulch, earth, dried leaves as substrate)


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

Grendel said:


> So I guess it will happen sooner or later as long as I support them nutritionally. Do you build a nest box, or let them make their own ( I got cypress mulch, earth, dried leaves as substrate)



i do not use a nest box i use 12inchs to 2feet of substrate i use a 1.1 ratio of manure orcabark and sand if that is how you spell it. i have been using this for years with tegus and monitors they can borrow better i think. almost all my animals are out side in ca. most of my out door enclosures are 8x8x5 with a top that opens in the summer i have a 2x3x2 box with heat that they go in when it is cold.


----------



## Wil (Mar 18, 2012)

Bntegus said:


> wil said:
> 
> 
> > Frank isn't on varanus.nl he is on varanus.net. And he isn't necessarily offensive but more matter of fact.
> ...



Are you saying that that picture is a 100% het albino or a 100% het blue? I am a little confused. Also could you start a thread in the Blue Tegu section with pictures of the blues you are talking about. I would really like to see what you are saying about the big heads. Thanks


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

wil said:


> Bntegus said:
> 
> 
> > wil said:
> ...



the pic i posted is what i think het i have not bread him yet so there is no 100% tell he does. i produced him from a albino and a blue but he has not proven anything as i have not had him with another het the only het i have is his sister.


----------



## Wil (Mar 18, 2012)

So are you saying that he might be het for albino or he might be het for blue?


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

sorry het for albino his dad is albino and mom blue.


----------



## Wil (Mar 18, 2012)

Then he would be 100% het albino.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 18, 2012)

wil said:


> Then he would be 100% het albino.



that is was i tried to say from the start but he is not until he can prove it to me i will take better pics and start a new post if i start all the post people want me to i will never here the end of it lol one at a time thanks billy.


----------



## Wil (Mar 18, 2012)

What is there to prove? If the sire was an albino and the mother a normal than all offspring are 100% heterozygous for albino. Two hets bred together would result in each egg having 25% chance of being normal (not carry the albino allele), 50% chance of being 100% heterozygous, and 25% chance of being homozygous (albino). Recessive genes such as albinism is pretty much straight forward, cut and dry.


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 19, 2012)

wil said:


> What is there to prove? If the sire was an albino and the mother a normal than all offspring are 100% heterozygous for albino. Two hets bred together would result in each egg having 25% chance of being normal (not carry the albino allele), 50% chance of being 100% heterozygous, and 25% chance of being homozygous (albino). Recessive genes such as albinism is pretty much straight forward, cut and dry.


all im saying is until i see the babies i dont care what i think it is or no it is. thanks billy.


----------



## TegusRawsome80 (Mar 19, 2012)

Can you post up some pics of your albinos and blues man?


----------



## tommyboy (Mar 19, 2012)

83 replies. 1347 views. All in 4 days! Is this a record?


----------



## Bntegus (Mar 19, 2012)

lol i have some really good threads to start. if i post pics of my blues they will just say there are bw lol i started to post pics and then the sh$t talking starts.


----------



## TegusRawsome80 (Mar 19, 2012)

Ignore them lol it's the internet, if that's really the best thing they have to do then I don't know what to say, since their opinion on YOUR tegus doesn't really matter or help anyone. Some of us would like to see your tegus just because we enjoy seeing them, not as "proof".


----------



## frost (Mar 20, 2012)

the internet is not a good place for rational thinking. not this forum in particular but online games bring out peoples inner a$$ hole. people say things online sometime that they would never dream of saying in person. this forum is pretty good about being polite and not just deliberatly trying to bring someone down. i think a big part of people being offended is that they sometimes dont say the whole thought but only a fraction. then things come accross differently then what the person originally intended, and i think that is why there are fights that break out on here.


----------



## laurarfl (Mar 23, 2012)

The farther the thread from the norm, the more circular the logic, or out of character responses from members will make the view count go higher.


----------

