# calcium or digestive issue



## AJLP03 (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey Everyone

So ive had Igor for a few months now and in that time hes a a ton or episodes of his toes twitching trying to reger. His food and full body spasms. I work at a vet clinic so weve been lucky enough that each time hes done this we take him in for an abdominal calcium shot. Just wondering if anyone has had such a hard time with their tegu not getting the proper nutrients? Hes a few months old last time he was weighed he was 86 grams up from 64 the week before...so trust me he has a nice appetite. We dust his food with calcium (mostly chicken and hard boiled eggs) he gets a few baths a week and gets to explore around us daily. We had a few issues with humidatity but we got a humidifier and so now the cage stays bewteen 60-90%. His temps are between 80-110 on the hot side and 80-70 on the cool side. Were doing everything right (i hope) so not sure why he would develop MBD or have such digestive problems. Any advice would be appriciated vet is stumped as to why hes like this too!!


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## Skeetzy (Mar 12, 2013)

Roadkill can elaborate more if he swings by the thread, but "dusting" the meat with calcium powder is NOT a proper calcium supplement.


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## AJLP03 (Mar 12, 2013)

Skeetzy said:


> Roadkill can elaborate more if he swings by the thread, but "dusting" the meat with calcium powder is NOT a proper calcium supplement.





We only dust with calcium because of the abdominal calcium shots hes getting....too much calcium is just as bad as not enough!!


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Mar 12, 2013)

_What are you using to measure temps? And what else are you feeding besides chicken and eggs? Also are you providing uvb? _


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## AJLP03 (Mar 12, 2013)

Bubblz Calhoun said:


> _What are you using to measure temps? And what else are you feeding besides chicken and eggs? Also are you providing uvb? _




We have the petco brand thermometer gauge and a petco brand humidatity gauge. We also have one of the sticky ones that came with the setup just as a back up reading. Were using reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb.....as for food weve tried just about everything mealworms crickets grasshoppers ground turkey beef....tried a little fruit masked by eggs....he'll only eat chicken and eggs and somedays i have to.mash egg into the chicken so hell eat it. Going to pick up some pinkies tom in hopes hell eat those.


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## chelvis (Mar 12, 2013)

How far is the UV Bulb from the lizards basking area and how old is the bulb?

Avoid the egg, for a healthy animal eggs are ok, but for a lizard having issue with calcium eggs should be avoid. The contain biotine that binds to calcium and makes it so the lizard cannot absorb it. 

Try to vary the diet more avoid bugs through. Try some gizzards or liver it will help with the calcium absorption. If he doesn't eat it then just try again later. Do not give in and keep giving egg, they will find a favorite and won't stop, however they will get hungry enough they will try other foods.


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## AJLP03 (Mar 12, 2013)

chelvis said:


> How far is the UV Bulb from the lizards basking area and how old is the bulb?
> 
> Avoid the egg, for a healthy animal eggs are ok, but for a lizard having issue with calcium eggs should be avoid. The contain biotine that binds to calcium and makes it so the lizard cannot absorb it.
> 
> Try to vary the diet more avoid bugs through. Try some gizzards or liver it will help with the calcium absorption. If he doesn't eat it then just try again later. Do not give in and keep giving egg, they will find a favorite and won't stop, however they will get hungry enough they will try other foods.



Basking is on one end while uv is in side center....bulb isnt even 2 months old yet so fairly new. I stopped giving him eggs so hed eat someone thing else but he wouldnt budge. Thank you for suggesting the gizzards and liver if he doesnt take it would it be ok to mask it with the egg and slowly take egg out completely just so he does eat?


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## chelvis (Mar 12, 2013)

How far from the ground is the UV bulb? sorry. The bulb has to be within 10 to 12" of the animal for the UVB to reach. 

I would just wait his out and use no egg.


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## Roadkill (Mar 12, 2013)

> We only dust with calcium because of the abdominal calcium shots hes getting....too much calcium is just as bad as not enough!!



Um, no, not really. 1) If the animal was getting enough calcium, there'd be no need for calcium shots (ie. using shots to make sure calcium is present is a TOTAL indication that nutrition is not acceptable). 2) Too much calcium really depends on things like what type (too much powdered calcium taken orally can cause some issues, liquid calcium is definitely the better option) or if it is concomitantly supplemented with too much vitamin D3 (which tends to lead to soft tissue calcification).



> Avoid the egg, for a healthy animal eggs are ok, but for a lizard having issue with calcium eggs should be avoid. The contain biotine that binds to calcium and makes it so the lizard cannot absorb it.



Uh, no to this as well. Biotin is a very necessary micronutrient, it is required for the citric acid cycle, a process that generates energy during aerobic metabolism, as well as a number of other physiological processes. Biotin is present in the yolk of eggs (as well as in plants). You want your tegu to have biotin. However, egg WHITES have avidin, avidin will bind to biotin, making it unavailable for absorption. Cooking the egg white denatures the avidin (people say that using fertilized eggs avoids this as well, but this is somewhat of a myth).

You haven't answered some key issues, however. Doesn't matter where in the cage your UVB bulb is located (with respect to end, middle, front, back), it matters the distance between the bulb and your tegu, and whether there is ANYTHING between the bulb and your tegu. Have you had your UVB intensity measured at the level where your tegu would be receiving it?

Keep in mind that the issues you are experiencing may not be entirely diet related (although from what you've presented here, everything is calcium poor, you're only "dusting", so calcium intake is the most likely culprit). In the calcium absorption-metabolism pathway there are a number of key steps. First is clearly dietary absorption, which requires vitamin D3. Everyone likes to think the vitamin D3 comes from the UVB, but this is just one of the steps. Similar to calcium, it has to be absorbed via nutrition (well, the precursor form of 7-dehydrocholesterol that is), this gets transported to the skin via the blood, where it interacts with UVB in the 290-310 nm wavelengths to become (eventually) cholecalciferol. This gets taken to the liver where it is hydroxylated to calcifediol, which is then taken to the kidneys to be further hydroxylated to become the active calcitriol. Disease in any of these locations (intestine, skin, liver, kidneys) can interfere and inhibit vitamin D3 production and hence calcium metabolism. Likewise, other vitamins and minerals are needed for these chemical processes, such as selenium. Not only should you be using greater calcium supplementation than you are, but you should likewise be utilizing vitamin supplementation. For meat and organs, you should be using about 1 tablespoon of powdered calcium supplement per pound of protein. To this you can "dust" with vitamins. If this fails to correct the issue, then you need to go through other analyses to determine what parts of the pathway are being inhibited with your tegu. You may want to have it checked for parasites, some of these too can disrupt the calcium metabolic pathways.


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## Dubya (Mar 12, 2013)

chelvis said:


> How far is the UV Bulb from the lizards basking area and how old is the bulb?
> 
> Avoid the egg, for a healthy animal eggs are ok, but for a lizard having issue with calcium eggs should be avoid. The contain biotine that binds to calcium and makes it so the lizard cannot absorb it.
> 
> Try to vary the diet more avoid bugs through. Try some gizzards or liver it will help with the calcium absorption. If he doesn't eat it then just try again later. Do not give in and keep giving egg, they will find a favorite and won't stop, however they will get hungry enough they will try other foods.



Chelvis, I think it is the Avidin that binds to the Biotin and makes molecules that block calcium absorbtion. The avidin is in the whites of the eggs. I feed raw yolks only.
Roadkill posted a better explanation at the same time I posted mine.


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