# Whats wrong with garys face???!



## Rhetoric (Jul 18, 2011)

He was fine last night, this is what he looks like now..
I use MVB(up to date), calcium, vitamins, etc. Basking @ 105.
I'm on my way to my orthopedist but if you have any q's feel free to ask and I'll reply when I can. 
Nothing like this was visible last night. He looks like he had a stroke or something. :s:-/:huh:
[attachment=2787]

Vet is open until 6 if need be.


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## Kebechet (Jul 18, 2011)

I'd say vet, if it doesn't fix itself by the time you get back from your ortho. :/ I've seen similar in younger tegus with MBD, but the fact that it literally seems to have happened over night is bizarre, and while I'd personally go a little hotter on the basking area (5-10 degrees more, but that's just me. I do think your setup is good from everything I've seen/heard here) that shouldn't affect UVB output or anything like that. Have you measured the UVB output of the bulb? Maybe you have a dud?


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## Hippo (Jul 18, 2011)

probably got stung by a bee


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## slideaboot (Jul 18, 2011)

Is there any mulch or debris inside his lip?


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## TheTeguGurl (Jul 18, 2011)

Is his jaw at all really soft? i have seen Tegus with this it is a sign of MBD. I would get him into a vet and have them check him out. I would also look to make sure he doesn't have a piece of mulch the got stuck in his mouth and could have infected the area


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Jul 18, 2011)

_A Vet visit may be in order as well as reevaluate husbandry,.. raising the temps, check the bulbs as well as placement. How much calcium they're actually getting,.. since 2 of them are housed together. Are they fed together as well? 

Or when you make their food if you prepare it all at once and then separate it,.. how much calcium are you actually adding? Because it may not be enough between the three of them. Unless you separate the food then add different or a certain amount of calcium to each one after wards. _


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## Rhetoric (Jul 18, 2011)

No mulch or anything that I saw. His jaw doesn't feel soft, I pushed a little bit on that too before I left. He let me know he wasn't happy about It. He was eating fine yesterday, I thought maybe rango bit him but no bite marks. Its just like saggy skin hanging there. I'm omw home, ill check him again and see what's up. I've never seen that befoe its weird. He didn't seem to be in pain or have any mobility changes. He doesn't seem to be bothered by it its just creepy.
I thought about mbd but I don't think it would turn to that over night. It seems more gradual.
Ill check him out again and let you know. I haven't seen it with my other tegus before. Maybe he's just got funky skin or a funky jaw?

They're fed separatley. Given the chance I'm sure gary would take rangos food. I don't have a specific amount of calcium w/o d3 I use, I just sort of dust all meals but whole prey and mix it up. I do each one separatley, I try to give them some kind of fruit every day and since rango is picky that's how I've always done it. Bulb is about 8 inches from them, its about 3 months old. I bougt it new when I got gary and rango.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Jul 18, 2011)

_MBD, Calcium Deficiencies and most other issues are usually gradual especially in animals. There are subtle signs or you may not see signs until its getting to be or is a serious issue to where it's irreversible. 

On top of that animals usually don't show weaknesses,.. so early on they seem okay but can change over night or in an instant.__How often do they get outside,.. and do you have any chicken necks or backs you can give him for now?_


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## Piercedcub32 (Jul 18, 2011)

Again, I echo the see a vet asap if not resolved. But, it appears to be an inflammatory reaction, I would make sure there is nothing stuck between teeth or to make sure nothing is impaled in his gum line. Also if possible check the teeth to make sure non look infected or broken off by the gum line.


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## herpgirl2510 (Jul 18, 2011)

I don have any advice to add ut I hope he is going to be OK. Keep us updated.


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## jerobi2k (Jul 18, 2011)

yeah Rhet, keep us posted. hope everything is ok.


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## entropy (Jul 18, 2011)

Oh man, definitely looks like an inflammation of some kind. Sorry, haven't see anything quite like this before. Does his teeth look ok from that side of his lip? Could he have broken one?


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## laurarfl (Jul 18, 2011)

I've seen it, but don't know what causes it. Is he sort of heavy? I've heard one theory that is caused by fatty deposits.


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## Rhetoric (Jul 18, 2011)

His face is fine now. Everything is aligned and where it should be. When I left he looked like he does in the picture. A couple hours later he's fine. I took him out and tried to look closer. Still no sign if injury. No swelling. Nice firm jaw. I couldnt really get a look inside his mouth but from what I saw, it was fine too. He looks like it never happened... 

He ate 3 asf rats, no problem. I spaced it out a little so I could see how he was before, during and after eating. No issues there.

Laura, he's not over weight. If anything he could gain a bit more. He's around 4.5lbs and roughly 38 inches. He's the lightest and shortest of the three. 

I'm still thinking he might be better off going to the vet just in case? He went when I got him in april and got a clean bill of health. Its just weird, I haven't seen or heard anything about this before. 

Bubblz, they go outside 2 or 3 times a week as the weather alows. Usually its for at least a half hour while I do more thurough cage cleaning, glass cleaning, etc. I don't have any but ill look for some necks tomorrow. Usually I find turkey necks, would those be any better or worse? I've got some beef liver as well.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Jul 18, 2011)

_Glad to here he's better,.. I don't remember if it was this site or the other one but similar pics have been posted before. But what causes it hasn't been determined. 

Turkey, chicken necks, or back are okay either way. I just mentioned the backs as another option, because I brought some shortly after I got Natsuki. The store by my house didn't have necks,.. I didn't ask if they carried it and didn't feel like driving some where else. They had backs so I got that,.. it's the same as neck just with more bones and a little more meat because of the chest and scapula's._


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## Rhetoric (Jul 18, 2011)

I think there might be an asian market nearby that has more of the random parts than a regular grocery store would carry, ill check there too. 
I'm glad he looks better but I'm worried there could still be something else that's wrong. thank you btw to everyone for their suggestions, advise and kind words.

To me it just doesn't seem normal or natrual


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## fisheric (Jul 18, 2011)

Glad he is okay

Why would chicken necks help?


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## Kebechet (Jul 18, 2011)

I've discovered that you can sometimes get chicken necks at places that sell raw dogfood brands. There's a place called the Hip Hound, on 23rd in Portland that I go to, to get my chicken necks.


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## reptastic (Jul 18, 2011)

Glad he is doing better, i hope its nothong major



fisheric said:


> Glad he is okay
> [size=large][/size][size=xx-small]
> Why would chicken necks help?



Chicken necks contain bones wich is the best source of calcium, tegus need the calcium to maintain strong bones[/size]


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## Rhetoric (Jul 18, 2011)

reptastic do you have any thoughts?


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## reptastic (Jul 18, 2011)

I was thinkin maybe he got stung by something since it came and dissappeared so fast


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## Rhetoric (Jul 18, 2011)

I don't know what it would have been by. We haven't had any bees near our house so far. I've seen some spiders but thats about it. Maybe he ate one and got bit or something?


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## herpgirl2510 (Jul 19, 2011)

I am glad to hear he is better.


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## Big Dave (Jul 19, 2011)

I was bit by a spider once and my whole face swelled up like a balloon. If I had walked up to my mother she would have not been able to recognize me. just a guess, glad he is better


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## Rhetoric (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I'm still keeping a close eye on him. He looks scary in that picture! Does anyone think he should still go to the vet just in case or can I wait?


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## slughunter (Jul 19, 2011)

yeah, MBD deformities are caused when the bone can't calcify itself, so the body starts building cartiledge around weak areas. It doesn't happen overnight, and it doesn't go away. Since it was tender and hard it sounds like inflammation, and like other people said he might've gotten something lodged in his gums. The swelling could have rolled over it, but infections don't disappear that quickly. I don't know, I'm not a vet, but it seems like he may have just smacked his jaw against something really hard. When you feed him rats, does he whip them side to side like he's trying to kill them?


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## Rhetoric (Jul 19, 2011)

He is notorious for death shakes, I feed him in a separate tub but there have been a few times where hes whacked his head on the side of the tub. The rats are fairly small, they're ASFs so I'd guess maybe the equivalent of a small/medium rats. Fish fillets, chicken, livers, he makes sure all of it is dead.
I know that eggs can effect the absorption of calcium, I only feed eggs 1-2 times a month. I'd like to think I'm giving them a healthy diet.
The mulch I'm using is super fine, its supposed to be better for splinters and things like that but there are some chunks here and there. But its always possible. I'm not ruling anything out.
Again, he seems fine, he was out for a few today and its like this never happened. I was sooo worried when I woke up and saw that. I think as long as there aren't any more issues I'll hold off on the vet for the time being. I'm hoping to get all 3 of them in to see the vet before hibernation for a fecal.


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## Rhetoric (Jul 19, 2011)

Here he was a few hours ago, its kind of hard to see but it looks nothing like it did yesterday. 
I'm not sure why that piece of chicken looks so massive but it really isn't as big as it looks lol.
Theres also a body shot of him, I don't think hes overweight or anything.


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## new2tegus (Jul 23, 2011)

He's fine rhet, I'm guessing here, but something identical happened to my iguana. So I'd say just take him in to make sure and have the vet look him over. Guessing in a shake he may have nipped his gums, developed a minor infection causing it to swell some and deform. My vet had to lance my iguanas cheek clean out the dry puss and pack it, then I had to give him antibiotic shots in the large muscle of his hind legs.


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## Rhetoric (Aug 18, 2011)

Hmm I went in there this afternoon and noticed his lip doing the same thing while he was sleeping. He heard me open the enclosure and it went back to normal when he moved his head. Maybe its just his face? It's weird... 
Either way, I'm going to hang onto him until I can figure it out.


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## got10 (Aug 18, 2011)

looks like a stroke


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## Rhetoric (Aug 18, 2011)

I thought the same thing the first time I saw it. He's fine moving around, the only times I have seen it are when hes laying down or asleep. Maybe his face just relaxes funny? My other tegus don't do it..


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