# I'VE HAD IT WITH REPTILE DEALERS



## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 17, 2008)

I've had it with my new tegu, and the deals that I have been getting into recently, my 100% het albino red tail boa was sold for $60, my $20 chubby frog was sold for $10, my rose hair tarantula for free, and now my beautiful monkey tail skink for a columbian tegu 
I clearly thought that I was getting a argentine black and white tegu, and this some reptile expert wannabe comes a long and pulls a columbian tegu out, and simply takes the skink, OMG, a columbian tegu that is so wild, is now starting to bite, and tried to attck my dog :evil: 
now i came up with a new deal, I am selling this adult columbian tegu for $100, or trading it for a argentine black and white tegu (female) with another $100


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## dorton (Feb 17, 2008)

Why couldn't you stop the trade deal on the columbian if you didn't want it? And why so mad about selling all your others? were you forced to?
Sucks to be pissed about deals gone bad.


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## Lexi (Feb 17, 2008)

I dont see why you dont call the guy you got the tegu from and get your skink back..That would be the smart thing to do, sense you where getting riped off either way.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm not that kind of person, I'm just way too soft, and nice
plus the guy is all the way from Abbostford, which is like 2 hours away from here
and unfortuantly yes, i was forced to, I wanted to try different herps, and needed to make room for changes, so reptile breeding was one option that I'm starting to getting back into, and i thought i would starting breeding tegus, i have done 3 months of research, watched Bobby's videos on youtube, etc


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## hoosier (Feb 17, 2008)

Im with lexi. i would call the guy and demand your sking back! :evil:


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## Lexi (Feb 17, 2008)

Im a nice person too..But come on..monkey tailed skinks are WAY more then either tegu,possibly more then both combined...How are you gonna breed/sell reptiles if your are getting ripeed off all the time?


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## dorton (Feb 17, 2008)

If the deal was missrepresented, you have a right to get it back.
You need to stand up and tell them, otherwise they will never know. They may think you are happy with the trade.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 17, 2008)

well, breeding your own animals, and selling what you already have is different, i plan on selling, not trading, besides it's just a common hobby that everybody gets into sometime in their lives


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## VARNYARD (Feb 17, 2008)

Man, that suxs, I am sorry you got took bro. I must agree, I would try to get your skink back if I was you. This guy misrepresented the tegu to you, and for that there is no excuse. I would be taking that two hour trip if it was me. I do hope it all works out for you, and I do hope you get the animals you want. Just watch who you deal with, that guy knew exactly what he was doing.

Colombian gold tegus are $20.00 here on the wholesale lists, Monkey tails are 400.00 - 600.00.




> BEN SIEGEL REPTILES-finest quality cb and select imports
> 2245 WEST HILLSBORO BLVD
> DEERFIELD BEACH, FL 33442 <!-- e --><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><!-- e -->
> wholesale pricelist for 2-11-08 PH-954-427-8222 FAX-954-427-8683
> ...


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## RehabRalphy (Feb 17, 2008)

Tell us how things turn out. If worse comes to worse, go to our Goodguy/Badguy section and check out fauna's BOI.


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## PuffDragon (Feb 17, 2008)

There is no reason to be indimidated by this guy. Call, email or take the 2 hour drive ASAP and get your animal back. The longer you sit on it the less of a chance to get your animal back. What about calling the authorities????


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## ColdThirst (Feb 17, 2008)

SRY, But if you dont go back and tell that guy whats up, I dont feel sorry for you, and sounds like you chose some random horrible person to sell your animals for you, and I dont know why you did that. But if you dont get that skink back, which the guy probably has in his house, your a fool. Get the guy in the phone and get mad!Ã?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?Â¢Ã¢â??Â¬Ã?Â¡Ã?Æ?Ã¢â?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?Â


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## angelrose (Feb 17, 2008)

I think you should go back to the man :arrow: right away
all this anger is just going to eat you up and end up making more mistakes  

I know gold tegus are cheap but I like them


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## boygenius (Feb 18, 2008)

You seemed fine with your Columbian at first even when we persuaded you that you got ripped.

It's not a matter of soft/nice. It's about not sitting here and complaining about it and actually taking the drive to get whats yours.

I know i'm being blunt, but sometimes people need to hear it that way.


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

don't forget, there is nothing wrong with calling the guy up and saying that he didn't give you what you agreed to and that you need your monkey tail back. In all liklihood he probably thought he could slip one over on you and is probably turning around and selling your monkey tail for profit. There is no reason to feel bad about asking for what you wanted in the first place.


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## MMRR - jif (Feb 18, 2008)

This fellow (I won't call him a gentleman) needs to know that you are aware that he pulled a fast one on you. What he did is totally unethical and despicable. He's an adult that took advantage of a kid's inexperience. If you were my child I'd be getting involved and going to him myself to get your pet back. He knew exactly what he was doing. 

Please remember that not all reptile dealers are crooks. Before you purchase (or trade) again please research the animal that you are considering, ask for photos, ask where the dealer acquired the animal, etc. Ask for advice from a knowledgeable adult. 

If I had been making a similar trade, my PTS for an Argentine Tegu, there would have been some cash coming my way also.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 18, 2008)

I am with Jif on this, she 110% correct.

Who is this guy, and what name does he use for his business?


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## COWHER (Feb 18, 2008)

Jif is Right bro and so is everyone else!! get whats yours!!! I feel bad you got ripped off but if you sit back and let it happen then I dont feel bad in the least!!! Get your monk tail or get a real arg tegu if you let these kind of things happen to you people will view you as prey and it will keep happening.. Grow some teeth and then show 'em to this guy and get what you deserve!


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 18, 2008)

i've had it, i'm calling the guy again and maybe he can take the tegu back and maybe find me another or he can just give the skink back, i have no thought about getting the skink back, only getting what i wanted
the guy's name is Mike Hopcraft
and this is his site
thereptileguy.ca
it's not that i'm actually mad at the guy, i'm mad at my self for allowing such trade
thanks guys, i'm going to keep going until something is done right


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## VARNYARD (Feb 18, 2008)

I am going to do my best to help you with this:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108499">http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/ ... p?t=108499</a><!-- m -->


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## PuffDragon (Feb 18, 2008)

I pulled this directly from his website. I believe this guy knew exactly what he was doing.




Can you get a picture from the same angle? It looks like it could be the same animal. Click on picture to get a better view.


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

Korean --- I know him vaguely, he is on my facebook and has a group about the proposed reptile ban... I would definately get a hold of him and ask for your skink back. That is really really shady of him if what you are saying is true.


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

if he doesn't rectify the situation, he is really going to hurt his business... how could you pull something that shady to an underage kid let alone ANYONE and present yourself as a leader in the reptile community. Ugh I am so angry with him right now


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## VARNYARD (Feb 18, 2008)

nat said:


> if he doesn't rectify the situation, he is really going to hurt his business... how could you pull something that shady to an underage kid let alone ANYONE and present yourself as a leader in the reptile community. Ugh I am so angry with him right now



Exactly Nat, thus the reason for the thread on the BOI.


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

ha ha I meant more or less that I would personally call him on it the groups I find him most active in if he turns out to have been a scam but yah the boi would work to ha ha


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## hoosier (Feb 18, 2008)

i just checked out his site and he clearly knows it was a columbian. he even stated that it was one of the most agressive reptiles he owns.
korean: did he state that it was an argentine? and did he tell you it was agressive?


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## PuffDragon (Feb 18, 2008)

Hoosier look 5 posts up 

He doesn't even have an Argentine in his collection according to his website. Just 2 columbians. So how could he have had one for trade??? Bummer Korean....just drive down there and handle business.


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## hoosier (Feb 18, 2008)

lol i saw it, i just couldnt read it. lol im with you. he ouldnt have had one to sell. i hate people like that :evil:


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## Swtbrat (Feb 18, 2008)

Please don't forget everyone,there is another side to the story and make sure you get it before jumping on anyone.

I don't know the guy but I do know there are two sides to a story and it really irks me when people just jump all over someone before they know whats really going on.

I personnally think the deal sucks bigtime but I only know Koreans side of it.

Brat!


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

That's true! Korean, did you save all of your emails with Mike ? Also copy your add from Kijiji I saw that you posted because I know you were really specific in your add about wanting an argentinian


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## VARNYARD (Feb 18, 2008)

I have not done anything, I just made an inquiry on the BOI, i wanted to see if others have had problems with him.


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## COWHER (Feb 18, 2008)

Swtbrat said:


> Please don't forget everyone,there is another side to the story and make sure you get it before jumping on anyone.
> 
> I don't know the guy but I do know there are two sides to a story and it really irks me when people just jump all over someone before they know whats really going on.
> 
> ...



How could he possibly have a side of the story that makes this better?? he took advantage of a kid and traded a $40 animal for a $300 animal how is that even remotely honest or right??


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

Bobby - I could be wrong but I suspect that his business is more on the presentational / educational show side of things rather than dealing in reptiles so there might not be a whole lot of good or bad dealings with him but I think that Korean certainly has enough information to post if he doesn't right what has happened. 

I would like to hear his side of things but unless he has some sort of proof that Korean agreed to a Columbian, I am not sure what he could say to make his side seem legit.


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## COWHER (Feb 18, 2008)

even if he did agree to a colombian the guy is still shady because who trades a kid a lizard worth $40 for a lizard worth $300!!?? He knew what he was doing! He's a fool


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## ApriliaRufo (Feb 18, 2008)

Sorry guys I haven't been online much, but here's my bit.

1. Yes, KDK needed a little more research, a few more questions, and some cojones.

2. A 20$ Columbian for a 400$ MTS is not possible as a mistake, That's impossible, so we can sit here and talk about how we don't know the other side or whatever but that's BS. That is SHADY. Period. That's a Cinny Pied for a Cali-King Snake. Anyone into the reptile world has at least a "common-knowledge" of what their animals are worth.

3. The BOI thread was not invasive, it didn't point any fingers, it's an inquiry, so we can't get all pissy acting like Bobby already loaded the gun.

4. ANYONE who does ANY kind of education (not the douchebags who charge 200$ an hour, but people who are actually trying to educate) assumes the responsibility of a societal view of goodwill, so if in fact this person is an educator and a scammer, then he is lower in my book than the giant Deuce my BP dropped this morning.

5. KDK I have liked you since day one. Always asking questions and always interested in furthering your understanding of our scaly friends. I like you, but we need to see those balls grow to normal size. You need to call "le douchebag" and discuss it, if he has a problem, direct him to fauna's BOI, make sure you let him know, that not properly addressing any negative claims against himself on the biggest and baddest "credit check for herpers" it will simply dessimate his business. It's as simple as that. I look in the BOI read through 30 posts and say, huh, looks like that guys a prick, onto the next. It's a powerful forum and it's not a joke, but you have to take the steps necessary to rectify this.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 18, 2008)

COWHER said:


> even if he did agree to a colombian the guy is still shady because who trades a kid a lizard worth $40 for a lizard worth $300!!?? He knew what he was doing! He's a fool



I agree, the guy knew what he was doing, I also doubt he has a good excuse.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 18, 2008)

THAT STUPID SON OF A @#$%^
all right, here's a email i sent him

Hey, the Tegu that you've sent me is very indeed a columbian gold tegu, which is a wild caught animal, and very unfortuanatly, they are only $100 around here, but $20 around other areas, I hope you are enjoying the monkey tail skink, because I don't plan on getting the skink back, I just would like you to take the columbian back, and find me a real Female Argentine Black and White Tegu tyat is around 2 years old 
Sorry I sound like I'm coming at you like this, but everybody that I've talked to does agree that the tegu that you've traded, is a columbian and I should be getting what I asked for, you did not know so much about the history of this animal, but I do feel that it was not right for me to trade my healthy monkey tail skink that is worth $400 for a columbian gold tegu that is worth $100 
again, I'm sorry I came at you like this, but please make time to do this for me 
thank you 

and this is the reply
David,

The tegu i traded you was given to me as an argentine tegu. I also looked on line quickly before i e-mailed you and the site i looked at identified it as an argentine. If you had any doubt as to what it was, you could have backed out of the trade at any time. In my mind, you need to do more research before you further your reptile hobby as your animals are not healthy due to improper care. I highly doubt that you are actually going to take your tegu into a vet but you need to do so and start looking after it properly. The skink should have been in a cage 3 times the size of the one you had it in it also had a small bulge on it's side and when i took it to the vet on saturday i was told it was the beginning of an intestinal tract infection due to it's improper diet which consisted of mainly fruits.(an all fruit diet is too high in sugar and will eventually kill most lizards).
The trade has been done, you told me you saw the picture on my website, you saw it in person and you still accepted it so he is now yours and the trade is done. 

Mike

he clearly told me that some of his animals are not listed on his site, and what i'll be getting is clearly different from the picture i've seen
Nat, can you please talk to this guy, OMG


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## Swtbrat (Feb 18, 2008)

N/A


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## PuffDragon (Feb 18, 2008)

Swtbrat said:


> I was raised to never jump to conclusions!
> Also I was taught to never play judge and jury unless I have all the facts.I don't have all the facts and so I choose to not assume anything.Thats just my opinion which I am entitled to and I voiced it.
> If I knew how to leave the board and not be a member I would cause to be honest with all of you I kind of had it with all the crap.
> If you can just kick me off please do Bobby.
> ...


 LMAO what???? I'm just gonna ignore this because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Back to helping a fellow TT member out.


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

Korean - I am not sure what I can do for you other than repeat what you already told him. What I would reply to him if I were you is to say that 

1) He presented himself as a professional and as such you had reason to believe what he was presenting to you was as described. 

2) You are a minor, he is an adult, he is taking advantage of a minor and he knows better

3)That there will be a thread on the BOI about this as people need to be warned about his practice

did you save all your emails from him ? you are going to need them to present on the BOI, I would tell him you are going to post your conversations in entireity. If nothing else, this "reptile expert" will be risking his reputation if he presented himself as a knowledgable tegu keeper but can't even tell the difference between a columbian and argentinian

also, i would not have told him to keep the skink, I would have asked that you are put in the same situation he left you in, which is with a skink.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 18, 2008)

I think everyone needs to just calm down, it does no good to argue, and life is way too short. 
As for this guys Email, show him the thread I started on the Canada BOI on Fauna, ask him if he would like to explain this there.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 18, 2008)

Ah has never shown any signs of ageeasion to any other lizard. As for the hibernation issue, I have no idea if she did or not before I got her but I haven't cooled her. She eats live or frozen mice every couple of days and same with the fruits. I have a lot of lizards snakes and some Caiman. My web site is <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thereptileguy.ca">www.thereptileguy.ca</a><!-- w --> if you want to take a look. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

Hi there, i have an argentine black and white tegu that i'm pretty sure is a female. I got here about 6 months ago and was told she was a little over a year old. If you are intersted, call me at 778-240-6100 anytime 

Mike 

Ah has never shown any signs of ageeasion to any other lizard. As for the hibernation issue, I have no idea if she did or not before I got her but I haven't cooled her. She eats live or frozen mice every couple of days and same with the fruits. I have a lot of lizards snakes and some Caiman. My web site is <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thereptileguy.ca">www.thereptileguy.ca</a><!-- w --> if you want to take a look. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

i have others from him, but that's all about location etc, the guy also told me that the columbian was living with the mangrove monitor


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## Lexi (Feb 18, 2008)

Get your skink back....
Is it possible to get the police on this? cause that guy is a A$$.


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

no it would be a civil matter. However, it is highly illegal for an adult to enter into a contract with a minor. SO have your parents call the guy and have them tell him that you had no right to trade this animal away, and that they want it back and want the columbian back. That's one option but above all Korean I think you need to organize all communication you have had with him and set it up on the BOI and tell him that he can deal with you personally or take it to the BOI.


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## nat (Feb 18, 2008)

oh and post even emails that you do not find to be important like location etc so that no one can speculate that you are hiding anything.


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## PuffDragon (Feb 18, 2008)

> Define: Trade-is the voluntary exchange of goods, services, or both. Trade is also called commerce. A mechanism that allows trade is called a market. The original form of trade was barter, the direct exchange of goods and services
> 
> barter: an equal exchange



Even though no money exchanged hands, with the right amount of proof you can get the authorities involved. Which if I were you....I would.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 19, 2008)

oh i'm really pissed now, i just talked to the guy yesterday over the phone, plus i ran a little to quick and now i have to go into x-ray just to check if my foot isn't actually broken or dislocated, it's really badly swollen, i could hardly walk, get out of my bed, had to skip school, and now i can't even clean this damn columbian's enclosure without him whipping his tail over me
anyway, back to what i was saying, the guy called me a fraud and told me that there is no way in hell that the cage the my skink was staying at was a 50 gallon, maybe not even a 30 gallon (it's actually a 60 gallon) and told me that the skink was being fed mainly fruits with high sugar and was only days away from a infection, i actually feed him romain lettuce, cucumbers, etc, and he told me that i never told him about him eating vegetables, he told me that he'll also send me a list of vets while he was over, and for days, he never send me the list, and he argues and complains that the vet he saw was pissed at how i kept my animals, and i needed to bring my tegu in for a check up because he wasn't getting much of anything, damnit, i feed my tegu pinkies, fruits, crickets, and worms with the vitamins, or calcium or whatever with what the petstore recommanded, plus the my tegu, Vegas went into hibernation only after 2 weeks i got him, and came out for the first time last week, what the hell am i supposed to do about that? 
the bottom line is, the guy is grown man, without respect, points out only the facts that's wrong, gets whatever the hell he wants, and gives something that's crap back


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## VARNYARD (Feb 19, 2008)

Post what happen here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108499">http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/ ... p?t=108499</a><!-- m -->

Include all of the emails including the headers, explain what happen. I will be posting the screen shots of his site where he knew it was not an Argentine tegu. Also after you get done posting the first post, sent this guy a link to that thread.


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## nat (Feb 19, 2008)

Korean - please really follow Bobby's advice. No amount of ranting here will solve your problem, the only way you can get a resolution is to post on the BOI. Be as respectful and as professional as you can, present all your facts and we can go from there!


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## nat (Feb 19, 2008)

oh and another suggestion, stop talking to him by phone, talk to him by email so you have proof of everything he said


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 19, 2008)

well, the guy never e-mailed back, though he did try over the phone, i refused to talk to a guy his that kind of attitude over the phone
and what is a BOI? i just forgot it


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## gebris353 (Feb 19, 2008)

Hope things get better with this issue for you man, I would be pissed too. Btw, can anyone tell me what IMO and BOI mean? I dont know those lol


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## nat (Feb 19, 2008)

Bobby has posted a link to the BOI above, you will have to post there. 

I would also like to take a moment and say that a very upset Mike just called me and after hearing his side of the story I am strongly suggesting that this go to the BOI. He has a different version as to what happened and offers he has made to rectify the situation. 

I won't repeat them as Mike can easily do that himself on the BOI and I am not taking sides but I would also like to see these two (korean and Mike) have a dialogue with their facts presented (emails, etc) rather than continue to speculate. Mike isn't aware of what the BOI is but I told him that I would gladly send him the link if Korean decides to post. 

oh and the BOI is the board of inquiry, a structured forum where people in the reptile industry can air out their grievences and / or check on the reputation of people they are about to do business with. You can also post good guy posts to!


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## COWHER (Feb 19, 2008)

I agree Korean follow the advice and post on the BOI


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 19, 2008)

Board of Inquiry, hmm, i never came this far before and i hope it stays that way, i've already told the guy that i wasn't going to do anything about the trade anymore because i've had it dealing with people like him, and everybody else that has the same problem as he does, but whatever this guy says i've got everything to back it up, the man was all the way from Abbostford and what could i do but to say yes
i'll leave that situation up to him, he he decides to post on the BOI, i'll do the same
and why the hell is he the one that's upset? i'm just a kid that lost something over a trade with a grown man that knew exacly what he was doing wrong, and please, Nat, could you please tell me what he's so upset about


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## nat (Feb 19, 2008)

No. And this is why: You won't take the proper steps with the BOI and go about this the right way. I feel like I need to take a step back and give a little tough love and get you to stand on your own two feet with this. Mike has agreed to respond there, you don't need me to communicate with him. He has accusations as do you... this whole situation would come to light very very quickly if you both just posted your evidence because there is obviously some mis truth on one or both sides. 

I was involuntarily put in the middle of this when someone sent Mike an email telling him that I had particular thoughts about what kind of person he was. I don't appreciate people using my name in an argument. Korean, if you have enough energy to send Mike emails about how I feel about him and what I think he needs to do (when I have never spoken with him up until this moment) and flame him on his own facebook groups then you have enough time and energy to post on the BOI. If your going to continue the issue...do it the right way


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## nat (Feb 19, 2008)

If you are honestly dropping it and don't want to go to the BOI, then that's fine but don't expect me to somehow go back and forth between you and Mike when I am in the dark the entire time as to what actually went on. Like I said before, Mike said he would like to rectify it as well so there is no need to continue on in this manner.


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## DZLife (Feb 19, 2008)

KoreanDeathKid, keep us updated throughout this ordeal....I'm looking at the BOI right now, and I'm still not sure how I feel about this, but either way, good luck, and I hope this issue gets worked out fairly.


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## ApriliaRufo (Feb 19, 2008)

I hope Brat's post wasn't in direction of my post. I'm very sorry if you felt snipped and that totally wasn't my point. I was annoyed with this jerkoff who traded with KDK and kinda of threw everything else to the side. KDK take it to the BOI, you gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.


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## dorton (Feb 19, 2008)

If you really feel you were done wrong you should stand up for yourself. PERIOD. 
There sounds like there may be another side to the story. I wonder if the guy mike would want to come here and defend his side in a professional manner. It would/could be moderated to make sure no slander or sideways crap goes down. 
KDK,
Did you look at the pic on his site before you made the arangements? If so, not to be mean, but you got what you wanted. If you agreed to the tegu, no matter wether he called it a salamander or a apple it was not an argentine b/w. The photo shown from his website clearly shows that.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 19, 2008)

Too bad bud, you have refuse my phone calls so as far as i am concerned we are done. You are the one that hung up on me last night not me so now you can leave me alone. I have also spoken to natalie (who didn't know me until we spoke) and have explained the situation with her. If you continue on i will consider it harassment and take the necessary actions. If you continue to bad talk me and tell people that i have taken advantage of you i will consider it slander and take the necessary actions. 

Take care, 
Mike

that was his e-mail, i refused once, but i was wasn't home the second time that he called, i tired, now i feel like my parent's are about to get sued, i'm dropping everything, and yes, i did look at the tegu on his site, but he also said somewhere else saying that he had other reptiles that wasn't listed under Mike's reptiles, gold tegu, was in hell was i supposed to know that was the tegu i was getting, and about the BOI, what's going to happen? is it like a court, or just a arguement over the internet, about whos right and whos wrong? I may very well take that chance, but after his e-mail i don't know what to do, actually i was on my way to the BOI, but after I saw this guy's e-mail, you know........I'm still up for it
and I'm very sorry Nat, that I used your name for such thing
thanks guys


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 19, 2008)

i'm posting on BOI, anyone can join in


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## PuffDragon (Feb 19, 2008)

This is not our fight...you need to present your side of the story and provide all the evidence you can.


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## nat (Feb 19, 2008)

KDK - Forgiven and Forgotten


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 20, 2008)

Nat, and everybody else, i have just recieved a phone call from Mike again, and he wants to drop everything and just leave him alone etc, but he wants everything down, starting with the BOI post through the link, we just want to get rid of every evidence of what happened between him and I, so can anybody take the BOI down? 
thank you


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## VARNYARD (Feb 20, 2008)

KoreanDeathKid said:


> Nat, and everybody else, i have just recieved a phone call from Mike again, and he wants to drop everything and just leave him alone etc, but he wants everything down, starting with the BOI post through the link, we just want to get rid of every evidence of what happened between him and I, so can anybody take the BOI down?
> thank you



Sorry, but no, they will not and cannot be taken down. Whats on the BOI will be there forever, it is against the rules to remove threads from the BOI, I will not delete this thread either. I am not going to start deleting threads.


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## boygenius (Feb 20, 2008)

Even in that regard he sounds ludicrous, can you not see?

I guess it's over then. I hope you fight any other conflict that comes your way with a lot more vigor than you did this one.

Not to add insult to injury but on your tag you can remove your "1.0-Monkey Tail Skink" now.


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## PuffDragon (Feb 20, 2008)

boygenius said:


> Not to add insult to injury but on your tag you can remove your "1.0-Monkey Tail Skink" now.



I think he had 1.1 MTS.....


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## nat (Feb 20, 2008)

Mike knows it can't be deleted, I was very clear with that, I told him that I strongly urge him to read the BOI forum rules before posting because once its there, its there. 

however, your other alternative if you feel that you to have come to a resolution (I am not sure if you have or not) and you are satisfied, then you can repost on the BOI stating that but that's about as far as you can go. 

look on the bright side, if not for anything else lessons have been learned


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## ApriliaRufo (Feb 20, 2008)

Ummm no... you can explain your situation and it's not slander. Unless you have made lies or incorrect information on the situation you cannot sue for slander. My mother is the manager of the "(Not posting the real name) County Superior Court and I've talked to many lawyers about that. That dude's fulla ****.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 20, 2008)

sigh, thanks guys, it's more of a personal matter and if this goes any furuther that it already is, it's the law we are both going to have to face


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## VARNYARD (Feb 20, 2008)

No, if he is making threats towards you and you are a child, then he will be facing the law alone. If you are telling the truth, than do not let him bully you into thinking he has the upper hand, he is the one that will loose. I must ask myself why this guy wants these threads removed, is there something he has to hide?? :roll:


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## COWHER (Feb 20, 2008)

VARNYARD said:


> No, if he is making threats towards you and you are a child, then he will be facing the law alone. If you are telling the truth, than do not let him bully you into thinking he has the upper hand, he is the one that will loose. I must ask myself why this guy wants these threads removed, is there something he has to hide?? :roll:



Right on Bobby!!!! yet I cant help but wonder the same for the KoreanDeathKid..... if he was wronged like we were told he was, why is it that he is so reluctant to get his due? why not put it out there and let justice prevail? I'm sorry to say it but I'm starting to not believe KDK 100%.... :shhe


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 20, 2008)

If you can't delete your postings on the forums, you should probably write something up there saying that i didn't rip you off or i can just copy and paste your e-mails that you sent me onto the forum myself.

Mike

Yes, i would like you to do that, cause as far as people can see, i ripped you off and then you didn't want to talk about it anymore.
like i said, i can just paste your e-mails on there if you have no time.

mike

my problem is that you told people that i ripped you off. You have appologized to me for the things you said but wont tell the other people that i didn't rip you off so as far as they are concerned i did. don't worry about putting anything up there, you obviously don't want to make this right so i will just post your e-mails and the facebook thing up there later tonight unless i see something up there telling people that i didn't rip you off and an appology for saying it did on a very public forum.

mike


those were his most recent e-mails, i did make a crap comment about him on Facebook, but i believe non of that was true, it's just a anger problem that i need to control, i've already tried to apoligies to him, but he didn't accept it, and is now using that as a threat towards me


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 20, 2008)

and as for him, i think it's just his problem


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## redtail2426 (Feb 20, 2008)

Sucks you got ripped off like that but it is a hard lesson learned and now you know to be better prepared for future trades because as far as I am concerned you ripped yourself off by not being educated and prepared and just laying down and letting this guy walk all over you. Not trying to sound like a **** but cmon seriously this trade should have ended as soon as you saw the tegu because you should have known what columbians look like and told that guy to go screw. Your homework should have been done BEFORE thinking of trading a MTS which costs alot of money. Good luck with resolving this issue.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 20, 2008)

Dave, I will not let him walk away on this, I will not let up on him. He will be required to do the right thing now.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108499">http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/ ... p?t=108499</a><!-- m -->


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## ApriliaRufo (Feb 20, 2008)

Although you definitely need to do your homework before a trade, I think a major point is that you need to learn to keep your nose clean. You had a good argument and a problem, but lashing out and talking smack (untrue insults I'm assuming) does nothing but discredit you. In court, lawyers must listen to your testimony, and although it may be true, their job is to discredit you, not to change what you say. So lesson learned is a simple thing called CYA and it is always necessary in everything you do. Cover Your A$$.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 20, 2008)

i guess you guys were right, i should have done further research, but i had no idea what to think after the "yellow tegu" thread, i think i've read that argentine black and white tegus look a little gold or yellow before and/or a little after shed, and when i first looked at the tegu in person, it had pieces of sheds coming of it's tail, so........yeah
at least i'm actually starting to post stuff


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 20, 2008)

i am dropping everything that has happened between Mike and I, to anybody is interested in the reason why, please check the BOI


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## COWHER (Feb 20, 2008)

this thread makes me sick! :mad uke :mad


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## Mike (Feb 20, 2008)

COWHER said:


> this thread makes me sick! :mad uke :mad



:igu Ditto.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 20, 2008)

ok, maybe i was just being stupid, but at least both Mike and I got this through


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## dorton (Feb 20, 2008)

KDK, you got duped, unless you had seen pics before hand and agreed to accept if you did, I think its your fault. If you did not see the pic and it was represented as an Argentine then that was wrong on his behalf.

Either way this roller coaster has made me dizzy, and I believe this will be my last post on the subject.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 20, 2008)

Mike got raked over pretty good, he deserved every bit of it. It was his mistake and he just did not want or care to make it right. 

Dave, contact J&J Reptiles, tell him I sent you, ask him what you need to do about getting one of his argentines and then let me know.


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## Aranha (Feb 21, 2008)

Aranha says: "Get yer skink back or whoop his friggin ass!" ;D

Aranha has spoken... ^^


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## snakehandler (Feb 21, 2008)

I would drive up there and demand my skink back. 
If he would refuse i might do something stupid.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 21, 2008)

Dave I need you to talk to me, do you have room for another tegu? I am trying to line up a deal to get you a Argentine.


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## shiftylarry (Feb 21, 2008)

Even if it was an Argentine, it's still a lousy deal. I hope this all turns out for the best.


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## DZLife (Feb 21, 2008)

WOW, this post is providing numbers that are making my head spin----ehh....ok, if this is solved, will someone PLEASE lock this thread? 
Oh, and I'm glad you got this worked out, KDK.


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## playlboi (Feb 22, 2008)

dude, i have been reading this post and the post on the BOI.

i just have a few things to say.

Nat, you said that you can verify and confirm that Mike did indeed offer for the trade back and insist so based on the emails that were sent back and forth, ok maybe you didn't say that. somebody else did. my fault. but you did put that out there, but i've been reading the whole thing here and the BOI (I dont have an account on the BOI), so i'll just post here.

There wasn't anywhere in the emails that Dave said anything about the trade back nor was there anything about Mike offering him the trade back in ANY OF THE EMAIL messages. Mike said he offered the trade back on the PHONE, who can prove that? Only Dave and Mike knows, and if Dave says no, who can prove he's lying?

But it was made clear by Dave that he doesn't want the skink back no more, nor does he want the colombian, he only wants to replace those two with a real argentine B&W tegu. that means that Dave would give back Mike the Colombian tegu AND let Mike keep the monkey tailed skink, all in exchange for ONE REAL ARGENTINE B&W TEGU. that sounds like a pretty good deal for Mike, and Dave would be losing out, although he would get the real argentine tegu that he wanted. that was all he wanted

"THAT STUPID SON OF A @#$%^ 
all right, here's a email i sent him 

Hey, the Tegu that you've sent me is very indeed a columbian gold tegu, which is a wild caught animal, and very unfortuanatly, they are only $100 around here, but $20 around other areas, *I hope you are enjoying the monkey tail skink, because I don't plan on getting the skink back, I just would like you to take the columbian back, and find me a real Female Argentine Black and White Tegu tyat is around 2 years old *Sorry I sound like I'm coming at you like this, but everybody that I've talked to does agree that the tegu that you've traded, is a columbian and I should be getting what I asked for, you did not know so much about the history of this animal, but I do feel that it was not right for me to trade my healthy monkey tail skink that is worth $400 for a columbian gold tegu that is worth $100 
again, I'm sorry I came at you like this, but please make time to do this for me 
thank you"

and Dave, for real dude, grow some major balls and just stand up for yourself. you were not only being real nice with the trade, you even offered to give the colombian back to Mike AND let him keep your monkey tailed skink just for ONE REAL ARGENTINE TEGU. but since you kept changing your mind about fighting your stance, you made your story sound all twisted and you sounded like you were confused. IF it indeed really happen and he didn't offer you a trade back, state it as it is. it won't hurt.

if he said that he did offer you the trade back, i didn't see any proof that he did, by reading what's on this forum of course and BOI, only trade back offer in read was that he said he did it on the PHONE, i can't confirm that. and if he said he offered it to you through the phone, and you said you have it off and was busy with school and what not, i dont' see how that is possible. i mean it adds up, who can confirm that he did INDEED OFFER YOU THE TRADE BACK THROUGH PHONE??? Nobody.


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## playlboi (Feb 22, 2008)

my fault for the long post. just had to say what i had to say from what i read. seemed like Dave was scared to take action and that's why his story seemed all fuzzy. thought i'd try and clear it up for him from what i've read.

and Bobby, dude you are awesome man. I commend you for fighting it out for Dave. I was getting kind of mad for you on the BOI board when i thought Dave left you alone to fend for him, but he returned and explained things a bit more.

good lookin out Bobby. way to go.


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## nat (Feb 22, 2008)

playlboi said:


> dude, i have been reading this post and the post on the BOI.
> 
> i just have a few things to say.
> 
> ...



I don't really want to respond on here as I figure it should go to the BOI or not at all... I want to clarify something. I am not taking sides because neither person will post the emails in their entirity as I have asked both of them to do repeatedly. I never said that Mike stated through emails that he would be willing to trade back... all I did was confirm that he claimed to have offered to trade back to me over the phone before he knew about the BOI post. I also said that Dave keeps posting responses between him and Mike that state he doesn't want his skink back which suggests to me the possibility that either through email or phone at some point Mike may have offered to return it. OF course, there is the possibility that Dave also stated that in an effort to drop the situation and perhaps was never offered the trade back. I don't know... I have stated to both parties to quit phoning each other and to corrospond through email to reduce the "he said she said" and since no one seems to be following that advice... it is a "he said she said". Honestly I think both parties screwed up and that is why no one wants to post the emails (I was told that up until the night of the trade, all corrospondence was done via email, whether or not that is true I do not know but if it is, why hasn't the BOI seen those emails from either party?).


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## playlboi (Feb 22, 2008)

yeah, im not getting on you. i just said what i had to say by reading the responses. and i do agree with you that Dave does need to go on the BOI and just take the time to explain everything in its entirety. its their fight but its involving so many outside people. doesnt make sense to me.

again, nothing against you. we shall move on!


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## nat (Feb 22, 2008)

indeed! at this point I chalk it up to be a really great learning experience. I don't like to see anyone go through stress and the emotional roller coaster that has taken place... but it happens unfortunately and if nothing else at the end of the day its a great learning experience for everyone as to how one goes about protecting oneself from the situation that has occured. With that being said, I have contributed all that I can to the conversation and am happily moving on to more pressing matters (such as spending time with my newly awakened blue tongue skinks and finishing my darn essay on Kafka ha ha). 

Dave - I would like to publicy say that I hope you haven't taken my probing as a sign of thinking ill of you. I really do just want the truth to come to fruition and guide you in the way of how to go about dealing with a deal gone bad. Hopefully you have seen that a lot of people are rallying around you and also want the best for you. Unfortuneately if you are serious about being a breeder, this won't be the last time you encounter issues in the reptile hobby but at least now you have some of the tools to effectively deal with it. Sooner rather than later this will all be a vague memory. I promise! :bud


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## playlboi (Feb 22, 2008)

cheers to that! :bud


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## DZLife (Feb 22, 2008)

Bobby (or somebody else personally involved in the matter), could you please do us all a big favor, and if this issue has indeed been solved, post the result so all curious in the matter are satisfied (since this has already been a fully public matter.) Also, after the conclusion has been posted, would a mod please lock this thread?

I apologize if I am out of line by requesting this, and if so, Bobby, let me know, and I will leave it alone....I just feel that this has gone on long enough.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 22, 2008)

DZLife said:


> Bobby (or somebody else personally involved in the matter), could you please do us all a big favor, and if this issue has indeed been solved, post the result so all curious in the matter are satisfied (since this has already been a fully public matter.) Also, after the conclusion has been posted, would a mod please lock this thread?
> 
> I apologize if I am out of line by requesting this, and if so, Bobby, let me know, and I will leave it alone....I just feel that this has gone on long enough.



I have no problem keeping this thread updated, however, I do not see a reason to lock it.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 22, 2008)

I am sorry guys that I seem a bit hard on the other forum, but I cannot stand a scammer, and the fact that he ripped off a young person just burns me up to no end.


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## nat (Feb 22, 2008)

Its ok Bobby. The last time Mike called me I told him if he honestly wants to get it over with and if he is honest about giving Dave the skink back that he should just go down and drop it off or have a friend drop it off at Dave's house. He has yet to do that. I know if it was me in his spot and I honestly made the mistake that he claims to have made, a week would not have had to go by to correct it.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 22, 2008)

nat said:


> Its ok Bobby. The last time Mike called me I told him if he honestly wants to get it over with and if he is honest about giving Dave the skink back that he should just go down and drop it off or have a friend drop it off at Dave's house. He has yet to do that. I know if it was me in his spot and I honestly made the mistake that he claims to have made, a week would not have had to go by to correct it.



Thanks Nat, it just gripes me. I have been fighting scammers for a long time, I am real good at catching them in lies and making them slip up. Mike has proven to do just that. He is not very good at telling stories, nor is he good at keeping them straight. The proof is in the pudding each and every time. I am just sorry Dave had to learn this the hard way, I also hope he knows there are good guys out there too. 

JimD is an awesome guy, just let us know how we can help get a tegu to you Dave.


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## redtail2426 (Feb 22, 2008)

Dave said he didnt want the skink back which makes no sense to me its almost like he is just trying to get ripped off first he dosnt do his homework and even know what or who he is dealing with and then when it goes south he dosnt even want his skink back :crazy And then you expect a guy who gave you a columbian to begin with to go and get you an argentine??? Yea that sounds logical. Good thing Varnyard is such a good guy and is going to take care of the mess that BOTH dave and mike have made.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 22, 2008)

sigh, anybody that is doubting me right now, please look at the BOI again, it grew even bigger than it already was and it explains pretty much everything there 
no, i was not offered a trade back, but was insulted about my wrong doings, and yes, i should have done more research before the trade (but at least i learned something, and tried to make it right), and i was pretty mad when i sent the e-mail to him and didn't exacly mean that, i just wanted more room and space so that i could start working with real arentine tegus, Mike is the one that has been making up lies about me, and if you still doubt me, that's your opinion about me
i've been ripped off so many times before, and for once i tried to make it right, and Mike lies about it, and threatens me, and now it's all gone


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## VARNYARD (Feb 22, 2008)

KoreanDeathKid said:


> sigh, anybody that is doubting me right now, please look at the BOI again, it grew even bigger than it already was and it explains pretty much everything there
> no, i was not offered a trade back, but was insulted about my wrong doings, and yes, i should have done more research before the trade (but at least i learned something, and tried to make it right), and i was pretty mad when i sent the e-mail to him and didn't exacly mean that, i just wanted more room and space so that i could start working with real arentine tegus, Mike is the one that has been making up lies about me, and if you still doubt me, that's your opinion about me
> i've been ripped off so many times before, and for once i tried to make it right, and Mike lies about it, and threatens me, and now it's all gone



I do not doubt you at all Dave, I have caught Mike in many lies there. I guess you can blame me for it going so far, but I was not about to let him just walk away without the truth coming out.

As for you being stuck, you are not stuck, I told you I will help you get a real argentine from JimD, just let me know if you can make room for another tegu, or find a home for that Colombian.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 22, 2008)

Bobby, why on earth would I blame you for anything?!?!?! you are the one that has helped me from the start& you and everybody else encouraged me to go this far to fight, and i do thank you for that
but as it is right now, i'm not sure what the future holds for me or the columbian, my family does not agree or support me of having to do anything with this Mike in the first place, and they have doubted me for the whole week, the columbian has been very aggresive but has not been causing any problems lately, but if i can, i will do my best to find a better home for the columbian tegu, i only have very limited supply of food for a pure carnivore such as a columbian and i clearly cannot keep him for long, every pet store near me that carried feeders have closed down recently and only animals such as omnivores, heribivores, or snakes is the only animal that i am able to feed at this moment, but if i can, I will definatly would like a argentine tegu


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## dorton (Feb 23, 2008)

KoreanDeathKid said:


> i only have very limited supply of food for a pure carnivore such as a columbian and i clearly cannot keep him for long, every pet store near me that carried feeders have closed down recently and only animals such as omnivores, heribivores, or snakes is the only animal that i am able to feed at this moment, but if i can, I will definatly would like a argentine tegu



If feeding is a problem for the columbian, then I think you need to re-think the whole idea of getting another argentine. They are bigger, and eat more food. What are you feeding the columbian?

Sorry for the off topic question, but after reading the last part it got me thinking.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 23, 2008)

i have everything, but it's just that i have to drive for 15 minutes at least for the feeders, the columbian was being fed nothing but live mice, frozen thawed mice, and some fruits (as Mike claims), but would a columbian actually eat fruits? anyway, it's not that i can't supply the needs for both animals, it will just take some time
and that's all he's been eating, mice


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## ApriliaRufo (Feb 23, 2008)

I can take the Columbian if it's possible to send here. I have a few friends who are fans of the feisty Cols.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 23, 2008)

i wish that was possible, but the shipping is going to be a pain, and i have never shipped a live animal of this size or any size to anywhere


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## nat (Feb 24, 2008)

If you don't find a ressponsible home to sell the tegu to, I can direct you to one of the reptiles rescues in your area that I am associated with. There are several rescues in your area but many of them are rescues in name and not in practice. I have rescued niles from my area and through this particular rescue, we have found appropriate homes for them so a columbian shouldn't be a problem. I can't guarentee that they will take it since it is run out of a lady's house but I can at least send you in that direction! She even has a female arg. tegu of her own that came in as a stray!


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## RehabRalphy (Feb 24, 2008)

KDK, all I see from you is submissiveness. Theres no reason why you should be backing down from this situation, but thats your choice so no more complaints if you choose to do this.

I see that the majority of this website, as well as fauna, wants justice, but this cannot happen without the actions KDK needs to take.

All in all, KDK backed down and lost everything. He doesn't want to make things right and wants to move on. Its his choice. Sorry to those who were desperately trying to help see a good since of morality and justice being brought to this problem.


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 24, 2008)

I've tried and still am, it's Mike that ran off and now his friend Terry is starting to post his statements which I have no clue what he's talking about, Mike is still reading, and we all asked him many things, and he is the one that is not making this right by not answering our questions
i did not back down, it's Mike that is hiding, someday he's going to come with these answers


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## KoreanDeathKid (Feb 24, 2008)

and lets just give the columbian a little more time, somebody has to be interested in him soon or later


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## nat (Feb 24, 2008)

I wasn't suggesting any particular time limit... just letting you know you have options that will lead to a reasponsible home for the tegu if you have a hard time finding a home for him :mrgreen:


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## ChristopherDayton (Feb 24, 2008)

personally (being that I am form VC myself) I would get a ride out to his place and take the tegu and get your PTS back if thats what you want.. just do it.. dont debate.. none of that crap. if her denies you at that point then forget it and move on.


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## boygenius (Feb 24, 2008)

I keep trying to ignore this thread but it keeps appearing on the latest posts..

I've read the fauna BOI post as well as this and some other ones..

Yeah he f'd up and he refuses to make the situation right in the pretense of buying you an argentine to replace it instead, but he did offer you to trade back and get your PTS back, and then maybe you could find someone else to trade.

I don't know about canadian prices, but lets say the PTS is 600 here, and the argentine 100, and the colombian 30..

he said he would be willing to trade back the 600 to get the 30 from you so the situation is settled but you keep refusing and insist on 100.. 

and on your posts you keep flip flopping back, one day you're ok with it being settled and as soon as someone says anything you jump on that bandwagon of "yeah he's still defiant, he ripped me off, etc."

please decide on your mind state and stick with it..

we feel for your loss, we clearly do, the thread shows it.. but if you can't overcome your submissiveness or make up your mind on what you want to do -- stop crying about it.

i know you're young, but maybe today is the point where you are coming of age and become a man.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 24, 2008)

Sorry but that was a lie, Mike said he offered to trade back. But the truth is, he never did, it was just another one of his lies.


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## DZLife (Feb 25, 2008)

DZLife said:


> Bobby (or somebody else personally involved in the matter), could you please do us all a big favor, and if this issue has indeed been solved, post the result so all curious in the matter are satisfied (since this has already been a fully public matter.) Also, after the conclusion has been posted, would a mod please lock this thread?
> 
> I apologize if I am out of line by requesting this, and if so, Bobby, let me know, and I will leave it alone....I just feel that this has gone on long enough.



*sigh* Sorry guys, I was in a particularly pissed-off mood when I posted that....partially due to the fact that I have friends that have been ripped off like that......
meh, anyway, I actually am interested in reading the BOI, and I don't see a link the the BIO in the thread.....or wait, is the BIO part of Fauna, or is it a different site altogether? I haven't been on th eBIO in a lil while.


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## VARNYARD (Feb 25, 2008)

Here is the link:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108499">http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/ ... p?t=108499</a><!-- m -->


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## DZLife (Feb 25, 2008)

VARNYARD said:


> Here is the link:
> 
> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108499">http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/ ... p?t=108499</a><!-- m -->



Thanks! I didn't realize that the BOI was part of Fauna.


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