# Platnum het for albino blues



## Penny&Dollar (Jul 25, 2013)

Hi tegu talk

I just bought two Platnum het for albino blues from underground reptiles they hatched out yesterday. I drove picked them up and drove back home offered crickets and they didn't eat, today makes it day two I tried feeding and they still won't eat. Is there a reason why? I bought my blk/wht when they hatched and they eat with no problem, the temps are 110 and 70% whats going on should I worry or give them another day?


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## tegus4life (Jul 25, 2013)

Penny&Dollar said:


> Hi tegu talk
> 
> I just bought two Platnum het for albino blues from underground reptiles they hatched out yesterday. I drove picked them up and drove back home offered crickets and they didn't eat, today makes it day two I tried feeding and they still won't eat. Is there a reason why? I bought my blk/wht when they hatched and they eat with no problem, the temps are 110 and 70% whats going on should I worry or give them another day?



I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's a new environment and they're probably stressed. Give them anther day or so and keep offering food. Have you tried offering anything but crickets? Maybe try mealworms/superworms/roaches or even some ground turkey. Just keep a close eye on them. Keep us updated and good luck


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## laurarfl (Jul 25, 2013)

How old are they?


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## Tyler137 (Jul 25, 2013)

laurarfl said:


> How old are they?


"hatched out yesterday"


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## jtrux (Jul 25, 2013)

The fact that they hatched out yesterday is your answer. Give them a week to settle in and then offer them food. I have no idea why they would sell animals sooo soon but that's what they do. For $500 a pop you would think they would want to make sure it's eating first to avoid any complications further down the line.


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## jtrux (Jul 25, 2013)

And I think pics are in order...


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 25, 2013)

Pics you asked for Jtrux and I did I spoke with some dude named tim and he said well if you dont want them I have others that do. First we have gave the 200.00 dollar deposit they asked for witch was non refundable. when I got their I asked him if they ate and he said no they just hatched so I was ready to drive back home without them but my wife wasn't,so we gave them the 800+ 50 extra for tax.


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## jtrux (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm sure they will be ok once they get adjusted. If they went full term and absorbed the entire yolk, its possible they might just not be hungry. I called them and apparently they sold out already until more hatch.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 25, 2013)

Well hope so im not gonna handle them till Saturday I'll try and feed again. Thank you jtrux I'll keep you posted.


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## Logie_Bear (Jul 25, 2013)

Sooo... what is a 'Platinum Blue' tegu? And are they 100% guaranteed het for albino?


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## Tyler137 (Jul 25, 2013)

Logie_Bear said:


> Sooo... what is a 'Platinum Blue' tegu? And are they 100% guaranteed het for albino?


The parents have lots of high whites on them so they call em platinum. Not guaranteed that his will have the as much white though because it is just a coloration.


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## jtrux (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm curious as well...are they guaranteed het for albino?


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## jtrux (Jul 25, 2013)

50% Het for albino


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## laurarfl (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm sorry, but I just don't care for the way UG does business. Instead of offering to help, he tells you if you don't want them, other people do? That's pretty arrogant. Platinum blue is a name they made up this year for their high contrast blues.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 26, 2013)

Jtrux yes 50% het for albino I was chatting with a local breeder and he told me its not guarantee that if they breed im gonna produce an albino ( now that sucks now I feel like I over paid)

@ laura once I get my last female I won't do anymore business with UG. Also talk to a dude from Deerfield and he told me I have to be careful cause last year they had all regular blues and this year everything is het for something. But I guess its all my wife fault for jumping to buy (have to blame someone) the more I chat with people the more I feel I over payed, but I guess only time will tell. A lot of breeders tell me they do sell or ship till they eat their first meal I got these two without eating hope they eat something soon.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 26, 2013)

Sorry don't sell or ship till they have eaten their first meal.


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## jtrux (Jul 26, 2013)

They cover their a$$ by saying they are possible hets. This way if they do not produce albinos, all they have to say is that they were not guaranteed. 

I'm not a genetics wizard by any means but this is what I know. In order for them to call them 100% hets they would have to breed an albino to a regular OR and albino to a 100% het. 

In the event that they crossed an albino to a regular, ALL the offspring would be 100% het, no albinos would be produced, all babies would look normal but carry the genes.

If they cross an albino and a 100% het, then theoretically half of the offspring would be albinos and half would be 100% hets.

*If they cross a het and a non het then you will end up with the scenario that you have. ALL babies will look normal BUT theoretically 50% of them carry the genes. Whose to say that their guaranteed het was indeed a het at all. *

There are other scenerios out there but I was trying to give you an idea of how they got the 50% het part. 

I'll tell you this...if I was in the business of producing high end animals and I was throwing any kind of percentage out there in terms of their possible reproductive capabilities, I would be able to show documentation of it. For instance, I would be able to show (pics and a sort of pedigree) where my guaranteed het had indeed been the producer of albinos in the past. Without any of that info, you have ZERO guarantees. You wouldn't have to ask for this either, I would freely provide that info to anyone interested as to make any would be purchaser more comfortable doing business with me.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 26, 2013)

@jtrux wow that hole genetic thing got me lost lololol..... it is what it is,they got me its very clear i over spent don't know if its true. i spoke to some dude name al and he said that if their both 50/50 i have a good chance. i also have this blk/wht tegu but i really think its a blue i've never seen a tegu like this,if you look at his eyes you can see the eye drops like the blues i bought this tegu from Al Manzitto up north great guy. he sold it to me as a female but turns out he's a he, i feel his beads and when he poops his hemipenis ( i think cause my red male poops the same way and my female poops nothing comes out) come out. he is beautiful i took him to my local pet store and he said it looks like a blue but im not really sure i no that since i got him he never like to be handled i've tried for like five months straight he bite me and broke my hand. so know the only thing he lets me do is pet him and take him out to feed and put back in if i hold him for longer the five to ten minutes he freaks out, starts to bite and the famous DEATH ROLL. when he is free roaming he lets you pet him if you sit on the floor he climbs on you and off you. so we've come to an understanding and i just let him be. my female super tame and love to walk on leash i hold her my step son sleeps with her and she never ever tried to bite me tail whip me nothing she is six years old. HER THE PIC MAYBE YOU OR SOMEONE ON HER CAN HELP.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 26, 2013)

Picture of the tegu don't know if it's a blue or regular blk/wht . Never seen anything like it when he sheeds his white is very bright not like my female he is brighter even his black pops out.


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## jtrux (Jul 26, 2013)

I wouldn't be so quick to jump and say that you got taken BUT this would be a good opportunity to ask them why they are 50% het and just see what they say.


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## Logie_Bear (Jul 26, 2013)

Did you get to see the parents? If they are high white blues and thats what you were looking for then you got two beautiful babies and i wouldnt fret too much about over paying. so few people are breeding blues and the demand is so high the price for babies will be up there whether they are het or not. I know i cant wait to see lots of update pics for these beautiful gus!


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 26, 2013)

well so far they dont do nothing but sleep i checked on them this morning took them out try to feed them but nothing,so i put them back in their enclosure and i'll check on them tomorrow. they dont like to come out all they do is hide and sleep i will post up picture every month promise.

@jtrux did you see the pictures of my male is it a blue or one beautiful blk/wht
oh this is my 6 going on seven year old female.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 26, 2013)

We went out for a walk today


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## jtrux (Jul 26, 2013)

He is a black and white. What have you offered them in terms of food selection?


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## chelvis (Jul 26, 2013)

So the way the Het works is you are always buying on a chance. Bosco himself is a 66% Het and I have never bothered to try and prove him out. Underground has a proven 100% Het albino blue tegu (believe it is female) as can be seen from there "purple tiger" tegus from last year. This is not a morph just a nice looking cross. They most likely crossed this female with there male breeder blue tegu, so there is a chance that the offspring could carry the gene for albino. Only way to prove it would to breed to an albino or 100% het albino. Breeding back to an albino if it is a het would give you 50% albino and 50% hets while breeding a het to a het would give you 25% regular, 50% hets and 25% albinos and that's if nature plays to the stats. 

Honestly blues will fluctuate in price and quality and looks, $500 is high but not a rip off. When buying hets its always a gamble, after all it is genetics and we cannot always see that. 

Keep us posted on how they are doing.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 27, 2013)

chelvis said:


> So the way the Het works is you are always buying on a chance. Bosco himself is a 66% Het and I have never bothered to try and prove him out. Underground has a proven 100% Het albino blue tegu (believe it is female) as can be seen from there "purple tiger" tegus from last year. This is not a morph just a nice looking cross. They most likely crossed this female with there male breeder blue tegu, so there is a chance that the offspring could carry the gene for albino. Only way to prove it would to breed to an albino or 100% het albino. Breeding back to an albino if it is a het would give you 50% albino and 50% hets while breeding a het to a het would give you 25% regular, 50% hets and 25% albinos and that's if nature plays to the stats.
> 
> Honestly blues will fluctuate in price and quality and looks, $500 is high but not a rip off. When buying hets its always a gamble, after all it is genetics and we cannot always see that.
> 
> Keep us posted on how they are doing.


 
@ chelvis how do i get them to eat this is day three and they dont eat,they dont come out all they do is hide they haven't drunk water since i got them. im extremely worried thats a 1k im gonna lose.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 27, 2013)

@jtrux just crickets and ground turkey, they didnt even go next to it.


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## Tyler137 (Jul 27, 2013)

You should call underground about them not eating..


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## chelvis (Jul 27, 2013)

I feed babies in the enclosure for the first few days. Often times I have the set-up very simple for brand new babies; some moist paper towls and a few hides. I will admit that I leave crickets in the cage with the tegus, I also make sure that there is food and water for the crickets so that they have something else to nom on. Keep in mind they absorb the egg yoke when they are in the egg and may not eat for a few days to a week after hatching. In the wild they would use this time to hide under things until they get accustom to using there legs and what not.

How are you feeding them? in a bin in the enclosure?
How often and how long?


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## jtrux (Jul 27, 2013)

What is UR return policy? I'm not saying that you will need to do that but I'm kind of curious. I would also co wider notifying them that they are not feeding just to see what they say. In these kinds of cases where you are having problems with the animals it is better to make the breeder aware now rather than wait until the animal dies. Once again, im not saying that is the case here but seeing as how you're having problems already I would definitely let them know.


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## chitodadon (Jul 27, 2013)

Let them adjust somethimes they won't eat or come oit for a week or two

from Samsung Galaxy S3


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## laurarfl (Jul 27, 2013)

Actually, I know of 5 breeders that have clutches of blues this year. This year there are more blues than any other year.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 27, 2013)

chelvis said:


> I feed babies in the enclosure for the first few days. Often times I have the set-up very simple for brand new babies; some moist paper towls and a few hides. I will admit that I leave crickets in the cage with the tegus, I also make sure that there is food and water for the crickets so that they have something else to nom on. Keep in mind they absorb the egg yoke when they are in the egg and may not eat for a few days to a week after hatching. In the wild they would use this time to hide under things until they get accustom to using there legs and what not.
> 
> How are you feeding them? in a bin in the enclosure?
> How often and how long?


 
i will not lie i take them out and feed in a bin,i offer food two times a day in the morning and in the evening. i called underground they said give them a couple of days cause the just hatched. @ jtrux my return policy is none! cause they gave me this pcs of paper and on top it say if box is checked off it say this animal has NO GUARANTEE. i know this other guy in homestead thats also having the same problem.


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## jtrux (Jul 27, 2013)

That is soo odd. I would not yet be worried but I would strongly suggest just leaving them alone for 24hrs, don't even let them see you. Cover up the enclosure with a sheet if you have to. When you go to offer food next time just place a couple crickets in the enclosure with them, not too many so you don't overwelm them, maybe just three or four. If they don't eat those, wait another 24 bourse using the same previously described method. 

I have found throughout my years that reptiles often respond better when they are "neglected". I say it that way because by nature they are not cute and cuddly creatures like puppies or kittens. I have been dealing with tortoises mostly the last few years and I've seen it all too many times where a baby won't eat amd the owners are constantly trying to force things down its throat and messing with it non stop. If you just leave them alone and let them do their thing so to speak you will typically have far better results than when you try to coddle them.

I'm not saying you are doing that by any means but I don't want to see you get to the point where you are stressing them out ennecessarilly by continuously handling them and trying to get them to eat. Just give them some space and some time to relax and offer food once per day in limited quantities inside the enclosure. I strongly recommend either placing the enclosure in a spare bedroom or covering it up though.


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## chitodadon (Jul 27, 2013)

Get some griund turkey wit the bines ground in them and put a tiny bit in the enclosure amd see if the eat and just sit ariund the enc lose and get them used to u

from Samsung Galaxy S3


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 27, 2013)

Tyler137 said:


> The parents have lots of high whites on them so they call em platinum. Not guaranteed that his will have the as much white though because it is just a coloration.


sorry brother this is a proven genetic trait as proven by myself and StPierre... RG


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 27, 2013)

jtrux said:


> They cover their a$$ by saying they are possible hets. This way if they do not produce albinos, all they have to say is that they were not guaranteed.
> 
> I'm not a genetics wizard by any means but this is what I know. In order for them to call them 100% hets they would have to breed an albino to a regular OR and albino to a 100% het.
> 
> ...


 
when dealing with genetics in ball pythons boas retics or ANY animals the terminology is the same so when 1 parent is het albino and PROVEN out and the other parent not proven the term for the offspring that come out normal is 50% possible het sorry if that has caused confusion it is not meant to that IS what they are and that is how they are termed I love you guys but please reserve your judgements for facts and if your not sure just ask I'm here to help... RG


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 27, 2013)

laurarfl said:


> I'm sorry, but I just don't care for the way UG does business. Instead of offering to help, he tells you if you don't want them, other people do? That's pretty arrogant. Platinum blue is a name they made up this year for their high contrast blues.


 
What did I do to you? You always say the ugliest things about me why? I have sold over 300 tegus this year alone and have had virtually no complaints about the animals the service the shipping ANYTHING but as per your usual there you are blasting me why? I try to love my customers answer my critics honestly and respectfully when the hate is logical and not just jealousy but you always got hateful comments Why? Please accept my apologies if I have ever done you wrong please feel free to call me to discuss this thing but please give me a chance to earn your respect I will try... RG


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 27, 2013)

S


Penny&Dollar said:


> i will not lie i take them out and feed in a bin,i offer food two times a day in the morning and in the evening. i called underground they said give them a couple of days cause the just hatched. @ jtrux my return policy is none! cause they gave me this pcs of paper and on top it say if box is checked off it say this animal has NO GUARANTEE. i know this other guy in homestead thats also having the same problem.


 
I am sorry so far that your experience with my company has been less than stellar. I am here at the store all day today feel free to bring the animals back for an exchange or call to ask advice on care and maintenance I am here to help and serve you with any and every question you have. I bred those animals and they are about 10 generation UR stock so maybe I can help you with them just maybe...(sarcasm) Please forgive any if my guys if they were rude to you we are just so bust that sometimes that comes off as rude but I promise that is not our intention. Please call the store 954 428 8434 ask for Rian G and I will answer and and every question you have because I so appreciate the business that feeds my kids and pays my bills and I have never taken my customers (the best in the world) for granted EVER... that goes for any egu talk members... RG


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## Tyler137 (Jul 27, 2013)

UggLeeDog said:


> sorry brother this is a proven genetic trait as proven by myself and StPierre... RG


Did not know that but thanks for correcting me. I actually bought a chacoan hatchling from you and she has been great so far.


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 27, 2013)

Tyler137 said:


> Did not know that but thanks for correcting me. I actually bought a chacoan hatchling from you and she has been great so far.


 
Now that is what I like to hear

Thanks so much! RG


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## jtrux (Jul 27, 2013)

Hi Rian,

I know very little about genetics and made sure to specify that in my post. I merely posted the little bit of knowledge that I do know. Please don't take this as a challenge or insult because I assure you, I'm not on these forums to make enemies but in this industry we know all to well that there are dishonest people out there and we can both agree that there are people out there selling normal animals as hets. I've followed your videos and I've seen your albino blues (very nice btw) and I have no doubt that you have the potential of producing hets and albinos but as an amateur hobbyist it's difficult to justify a $500 price tag on an animal I know nothing about. How has your proven het been proven? Has she (or he) been bred to another het or an albino and produced albinos? 

Thank you,

Josh


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## jtrux (Jul 27, 2013)

And before I forget to mention, I think your offer to work with the customer and possibly trade out the tegus or refund them is outstanding. That's the kind of customer service I like to see and will help me in my decision in the event that I ever do business with you.


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 27, 2013)

jtrux said:


> Hi Rian,
> 
> I know very little about genetics and made sure to specify that in my post. I merely posted the little bit of knowledge that I do know. Please don't take this as a challenge or insult because I assure you, I'm not on these forums to make enemies but in this industry we know all to well that there are dishonest people out there and we can both agree that there are people out there selling normal animals as hets. I've followed your videos and I've seen your albino blues (very nice btw) and I have no doubt that you have the potential of producing hets and albinos but as an amateur hobbyist it's difficult to justify a $500 price tag on an animal I know nothing about. How has your proven het been proven? Has she (or he) been bred to another het or an albino and produced albinos?
> 
> ...


 
Josh
I'm not sensitive and I appreciate the challenge, I am not above the same challenge so anytime anyone wants to see the parents or the proof if it ain't in video form (youtube) it surely in picture form. As you said you have seen my Albino Blues this mom is the offspring from a het to albino and then this same female produces albinos 2 years ago (I gave her off last year) I put her with a big platinum male I hoped would be het as well (same line) but it didnt proved out (cos platinum albinos would be sick!!!) first year thus the 50% POSSIBLE het for albinism. I also have purchased and been burnt on many so called hets over the years and as I stated I am not sensitive and always hope and welcome people who want proof that they are getting what they are buying, thanks for the challenge anytime please just ask, I love tegus and tegu folks! RG


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 27, 2013)

jtrux said:


> And before I forget to mention, I think your offer to work with the customer and possibly trade out the tegus or refund them is outstanding. That's the kind of customer service I like to see and will help me in my decision in the event that I ever do business with you.


 
Brother thats what we always do and have done and I challenge ANYONE to say otherwised.

Thanks for the good word as well as the call out thats good strong business sense as well as animals smarts that I respect!

RG


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## Tannaros (Jul 27, 2013)

chelvis said:


> So the way the Het works is you are always buying on a chance. Only way to prove it would to breed to an albino or 100% het albino. Breeding back to an albino if it is a het would give you 50% albino and 50% hets while breeding a het to a het would give you 25% regular, 50% hets and 25% albinos and that's if nature plays to the stats.


 

Thank you. This thread was beginning to worry me when it came to the genetics discussion.

Many reptile enthusiasts would do themselves good to learn a thing about punnett squares - they'll explain everything and solve all your issues with a majority of simple reptile genetics.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 27, 2013)

UggLeeDog said:


> S
> 
> 
> I am sorry so far that your experience with my company has been less than stellar. I am here at the store all day today feel free to bring the animals back for an exchange or call to ask advice on care and maintenance I am here to help and serve you with any and every question you have. I bred those animals and they are about 10 generation UR stock so maybe I can help you with them just maybe...(sarcasm) Please forgive any if my guys if they were rude to you we are just so bust that sometimes that comes off as rude but I promise that is not our intention. Please call the store 954 428 8434 ask for Rian G and I will answer and and every question you have because I so appreciate the business that feeds my kids and pays my bills and I have never taken my customers (the best in the world) for granted EVER... that goes for any egu talk members... RG


 
@ RG thanks that really means a lot i will be more then glad to call you and ask for you and if worse comes to worse and they still don't eat then i will drive back to exchange them nothing personal but if you spent 1050.00 @ my store i'll make sure i take great care of you. and as you know i even asked to put a deposit on those light pink tegu but they told me they have not hatched yet, your saying people hating on you THAT NOT THE CASE I WOULD NEVER HATE ON ANYBODY its the facts. that dude tim is not your best employee. my next day off is monday and if they haven't eaten by monday i will bring them back and we can exchange them for another pair. LIKE I SAID IM NOT TRYING TO START A HATE THING ON UNDERGROUND I JOINED THIS SITE FOR ADVISE IM A BIGGER PERSON AND IS YOU OR UNDERGROUND FELT OFFENDED IN ANYWAY I APOLOGIZE.....all i care about is my baby blue's surviving and living long and healthy and knowing $1050.00 was well spent.


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## chelvis (Jul 27, 2013)

Tannaros said:


> Thank you. This thread was beginning to worry me when it came to the genetics discussion.
> 
> Many reptile enthusiasts would do themselves good to learn a thing about punnett squares - they'll explain everything and solve all your issues with a majority of simple reptile genetics.


 

De nada, I had to sit through four years of Animal Sciences and Biology courses so for me the genetics is more fun then anything. Like I said I don't think the price is out raggious at all for possible hets. Sometimes its a gamble that pays off, other times not so much. 

I know a few different people have said they are suppose to have blues this year, we will see what comes about. I will also admit that I have bought one of UG tegus (had some money set aside this year to try and get another pair started) so we shall see. So far all has been smooth. 

Back to the OPs question, just give them time. And I aggree with the neglect part. You are scary to the tegus, you will stress them out so its better not to be seen and let them adjust. I block out the window on the cage when I get a new animal in and then let them adjust. No handling, no transfering to feeding bins. Once they adjust then move to feeding bins.


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## Tannaros (Jul 27, 2013)

chelvis said:


> De nada, I had to sit through four years of Animal Sciences and Biology courses so for me the genetics is more fun then anything. Like I said I don't think the price is out raggious at all for possible hets. Sometimes its a gamble that pays off, other times not so much.


 
The same goes for me - I spend much of my time reviewing genetics problems with students. Though I do have to say I prefer h-w equilibrium opposed to the usual mono or dihybrids.

Hets, from a business standpoint, can be a worthwhile investment. If you don't produce the target morph, you still can produce hets - which are sometimes even more popular when it comes to selling than the targeted morph, as it hits a more easily accessible price bracket.


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## KSTAR (Jul 28, 2013)

GENETICS OVERLOAD LOL


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## Rhetoric (Jul 28, 2013)

UggLeeDog said:


> when dealing with genetics in ball pythons boas retics or ANY animals the terminology is the same so when 1 parent is het albino and PROVEN out and the other parent not proven the term for the offspring that come out normal is 50% possible het sorry if that has caused confusion it is not meant to that IS what they are and that is how they are termed I love you guys but please reserve your judgements for facts and if your not sure just ask I'm here to help... RG


 
Is it common to sell tegus the day after hatching? Why not keep them a week or two to make sure they are taking food, shedding, pooping, etc? I've never purchased from UR but it seems like its something many other breeders will do.


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## laurarfl (Jul 28, 2013)

My genetics course came from U of Fl and it is still shaky enough that I don't care to engage in genetics conversation. 

RG, I don't hate on you, and I don't hate you or say the ugliest things about you. I said I don't care for the way you do business. I am not jealous. I have my own breeding projects that are the opposite of yours and my own house, family, job that makes me quite happy, thanks.  I am actually a very polite and friendly person. I stop by your booth every year in Daytona and have even chatted with you guys about your blues. You probably don't even know who I am. 

But here is the logic you are looking for:

1. Last year I watched you guys sell tegus right out of the egg. Personally, I think that's a bit stressful for the tegu and chancy for the owner. How do you know if he is healthy and free of congenital issues? It appears to be an action driven by monetary gain rather concern for the animal.

2. The situation above where the customer was told if you don't want your new baby, someone else does. That's pretty rude. Why not just help the guy out? Again, it appears there is no concern for the animal.

3. I don't trust the naming of colors and species you guys come up with. It appears to be driven by monetary gain.


I love tegus dearly. I have spent a tremendous amount of time learning about them and I spend a lot of time trying to help people take of theirs. I do it because I have a passion for the animal. I guess it bugs me when I feel like someone is trying to take advantage of others who love them, too. Nothing personal, and I have laid it all out on the table for you.


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## TegusRawsome80 (Jul 28, 2013)

Wow there is a lot of misinformation and confusion in this thread. "Platinums" are not a genetic trait. Theoretically you could argue that since the lighter tegus often come from lighter parents then it is genetically influenced but I would bet that every tegu from this clutch does not turn out "platinum". It is a marketing tool, nothing more, nothing less. Also, selling tegus out of the egg is incredibly unethical. Every other tegu breeder I have spoken to would never sell a tegu that soon(a day or two or same day) after hatching. That being said, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that UG is doing it. I won't get into the het for albino part but I find the prices to be inflated at best. However, if they can sell them for that much, props to them. My problem lies with the fact that they're selling them a day after hatching.


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## chelvis (Jul 28, 2013)

They are not calling Platinums as a genetic trait just as a color morph. The trait they are saying these tegus are het for would be albino a know genetic trait. Platinum is no more of a hype then hi white black and whites and super red reds. As for their business practice I wouldn't sell tegus straight out of the egg or first day out but I have gotten a tegu that was only two days old and it adjusted fine.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 28, 2013)

chelvis said:


> They are not calling Platinums as a genetic trait just as a color morph. The trait they are saying these tegus are het for would be albino a know genetic trait. Platinum is no more of a hype then hi white black and whites and super red reds. As for their business practice I wouldn't sell tegus straight out of the egg or first day out but I have gotten a tegu that was only two days old and it adjusted fine.


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 28, 2013)

@RG i called you left a message with my name and number cause today is sunday and UR is closed but they still haven't eaten and have not come out to bask,i left them alone didnt try to take them out for feeding. i just put four crickets in their enclosure hopefully they'll eat when i get of base in the am i'll check,once again thank you everyone on this form that helped with advise and tips i'll keep you guys posted on them. off to work i go THANK YOU GUYS VERY MUCH


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## KSTAR (Jul 28, 2013)

How are the babies now? @penny&dollar


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 28, 2013)

TegusRawsome80 said:


> Wow there is a lot of misinformation and confusion in this thread. "Platinums" are not a genetic trait. Theoretically you could argue that since the lighter tegus often come from lighter parents then it is genetically influenced but I would bet that every tegu from this clutch does not turn out "platinum". It is a marketing tool, nothing more, nothing less. Also, selling tegus out of the egg is incredibly unethical. Every other tegu breeder I have spoken to would never sell a tegu that soon(a day or two or same day) after hatching. That being said, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that UG is doing it. I won't get into the het for albino part but I find the prices to be inflated at best. However, if they can sell them for that much, props to them. My problem lies with the fact that they're selling them a day after hatching.


 
do you know anyone who has had problems with any of my Tegus? I sell SOME of the Tegus the day after they hatch IF they display certain characteristics that are conducive to thriving. So maybe the opinions some of you have about selling the animals produced here at our facility the day after they hatch are... ready wait for it wrwrwrongg... or maybe no matter what I do some of you will just be haters.


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 28, 2013)

chelvis said:


> They are not calling Platinums as a genetic trait just as a color morph. The trait they are saying these tegus are het for would be albino a know genetic trait. Platinum is no more of a hype then hi white black and whites and super red reds. As for their business practice I wouldn't sell tegus straight out of the egg or first day out but I have gotten a tegu that was only two days old and it adjusted fine.


 
Platinum was a name coined by one of the founding fathers of our whole Tegu breeding industry Ron St Pierre who produced line of high white blue tegus that are MOST CERTAINLY genetic. I purchased them from him and they have proven out every year. I understand your apprehension for not wanting to sell them out of the egg BUT space is limited when you produce so many animals and they nip each others tails and toes within days if you put more than 2 or 3 in a cage and since it has worked out pretty well for the pat 15 years again maybe I got something right here... RG


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 28, 2013)

TegusRawsome80 said:


> Wow there is a lot of misinformation and confusion in this thread. "Platinums" are not a genetic trait. Theoretically you could argue that since the lighter tegus often come from lighter parents then it is genetically influenced but I would bet that every tegu from this clutch does not turn out "platinum". It is a marketing tool, nothing more, nothing less. Also, selling tegus out of the egg is incredibly unethical. Every other tegu breeder I have spoken to would never sell a tegu that soon(a day or two or same day) after hatching. That being said, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that UG is doing it. I won't get into the het for albino part but I find the prices to be inflated at best. However, if they can sell them for that much, props to them. My problem lies with the fact that they're selling them a day after hatching.


 
Yes my friend they are genetic and seemingly co-dom since they come out first generation and the whole batch is lighter yes the whole batch, If... you think it is unethical what do you base that on? As I stated earlier Do you know anyone who has had problems with our animals? After 15 years of producing these animals is there any respect or learning or are you just sure your right and I'm unethical because you say so?


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## chelvis (Jul 28, 2013)

UggLeeDog said:


> Platinum was a name coined by one of the founding fathers of our whole Tegu breeding industry Ron St Pierre who produced line of high white blue tegus that are MOST CERTAINLY genetic. I purchased them from him and they have proven out every year. I understand your apprehension for not wanting to sell them out of the egg BUT space is limited when you produce so many animals and they nip each others tails and toes within days if you put more than 2 or 3 in a cage and since it has worked out pretty well for the pat 15 years again maybe I got something right here... RG


 

I am aware that Ron St Pierre coined the phase and Rick used it when he bred blues as well, I have been in the industry for awhile. I wouldn't call this a morph though as its a degree of coloring can easily change, just like high white black and whites. I did not say there is anything wrong with the name at all. 

I am glad you model has worked, just try to understand that most people on this forum have tegus as pets (including the OP) and for most of us we would prefer to make sure young tegus are thriving before hand. If there is no cage space for offspring then maybe it could be time to cut back, however I know you have a business to run so there is a balance that has to be strucked.


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## UggLeeDog (Jul 28, 2013)

laurarfl said:


> My genetics course came from U of Fl and it is still shaky enough that I don't care to engage in genetics conversation.
> 
> RG, I don't hate on you, and I don't hate you or say the ugliest things about you. I said I don't care for the way you do business. I am not jealous. I have my own breeding projects that are the opposite of yours and my own house, family, job that makes me quite happy, thanks.  I am actually a very polite and friendly person. I stop by your booth every year in Daytona and have even chatted with you guys about your blues. You probably don't even know who I am.
> 
> ...


 
Laura, yes you hate on me and my company every chance you get even your current letter drips with judgments and condescension. this will be my last response to you because this is not the first time you have hated on us you been doing it for years going back to the Bobby Hill days when you tooted his horn everywhere you could, even when he bashed everyone who sold tegus besides him.
your logic is faulty because it is not based on fact but opinion but here goes nothing 
1. appears selling animals out of the egg is for monetary gain? that is rude and judgmental as I have said many time but will repeat anyone you know have a problem with my captive bred selectively chosen tegus? after 15 years maybe your wrong. These are not mammals they are reptiles ready to go IF they come out displaying certain characteristics that indicate they are good. after 20 years of breeding them and 30 years in this industry maybe I can tell. Or am I just a money grubbing slime ball whose only desire is to take peoples coin and who cares what I sell them?
wait anyone you know I owe money to? anyone you know I have taken deposits from and not sent animals to???
2. get the facts before you judge, we told the man and his girl when they were at the store at the time all of them were sold out and that there was a waiting list we weren't being rude and we did help them out and actually told them they could wait for more to hatch and not pay in full for the 2 they picked out if they didn't want them. but as usual with you everything you her about us is painted through the we suck prism of your mind
3. Trust the naming of colors... What are you insinuating and what are you talking about? some of my tegu projects have taken 5-10 years and cost me thousands and thousands of dollars in maintenance and new stock so what should I do? Yes you are correct I charge for my tegus just like every other reptile breeder in the world do you not pay for your animals? Did you scorn them to for charging you? If I produce something no one ever has like my Purple Tiger am I not entitled to name it what I want? In your eyes that's unethical and money driven? Oh stop it already no matter what I do I suck We know that already...

I can give you my qualifications as well but would that change your mind? oh by the way just because you end your letter with nothing personal doesn't make it so if all you do is call me greedy rude and deceptive. If I sell someone a good tegu for a fair price how is that taking advantage of them?
Just be honest you don't like us and don't have a real good reason why now that your hero has fallen from grace


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## Penny&Dollar (Jul 29, 2013)

WOW you guys took this thread to a hole different level..how do we go from asking for help to this? and RG im very sorry but he never told me and my wife we can wait for the next batch. I CAN SWEAR TO YOU ON MY KIDS all he said was if you dont want them i have over a hundred other people that would,but don't worry about crickets are gone so im guessing at least one ate(or hopefully both) and to whom ever TEGU TALK BELONGS TO PLEASE BAND ME FROM YOUR SITE CAUSE THIS WAS A WAST OF TIME YOU ASK FOR ADVISE AND PEOPLE JUST TAKE THING TO A HOLE NEW LEVEL WOW......and for RG he never gave us that option NEVER thank you and i hope you and that laura chick get together drink a beer or a bottle of patron and just forgive each other....JOSH DELETE ME OR JUST BAND ME this site and worth it lolol wow


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## laurarfl (Jul 29, 2013)

I am not dripping with hate or condescension, I'm sorry you took it that way. You asked me what I had against you and I told you instead of going behind your back and talking about you. I didn't call you slime or include any of those words that you put in your reply. In fact, I have never called you a "slime ball" or said "you suck" on FB posts or any forum posts. I have to bounce it back at you since you seem to hold all the anger.

I did not toot Bobby's horn every chance I got. I didn't become active on this forum until he sold it. I never spoke out against him because I was intimidated that one of the "big seller/breeders" would lash out if they were ever criticized. I don't cower any longer. I did defend Bobby's actions because I pitied him. I still feel like his actions were the result of an addictions problem and I can't imagine how rough it must have been. I have lost everything from addictions, and I believe you are in recovery, too. BTW my human heroes are the likes of Ben Carson, John McCain...men who overcame great struggles, not reptile breeders, lol. 

If you read my post, I use words like "it appears to be". I posted and gave you a chance to answer. But you sir, have a preconceived idea about me.

Since this was a post responding to the OP, all we had was one side of the story. All it takes is for someone to come clear it up.

The naming of the colors I am insinuating about specifically applies to the Paraguayan, not the other projects that you have going on.

I have not seen you sell tegus for 15 years, but I'm sure you are an honest man. As far as hating on you even when Bobby sold tegus, you would have to show me those posts. I've only been familiar with you guys for a few years. All I have ever said is that I don't agree with selling such young tegus and I don't trust the origin of the Paraguay tegus. If you have something different, bring the quote.

Penny&Dollar, I don't drink, but thanks. I have nothing to forgive. I am not angry and I have no grudges. Anything I had to say about UG I have said in the posts. If it made him angry, I do apologize. I thought he asked what I had against him, so I told him.


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## SnakeCharmr728 (Jul 29, 2013)

I didn't have much of an opinion on UG or Rian prior to this but after seeing how he handled this, how he put words in someones mouth and acted in a very unprofessional manner. I do believe I have gathered an opinion now.


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## TheTeguGurl (Jul 29, 2013)

So agreed here. Laura was asked a question and she answered it honeslty! After the methods used at UG I agree and have my own opinion as well. Laura is a well respected person on this forum! And I am many others trust her opinions as well


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## Beasty (Jul 30, 2013)

Hey guys! I've been gone for a while but I'm looking to get back into the herp game now. I have been looking for blue tegus and I have spoken with Underground about theirs. I have followed the blue tegu thing since they hit the market. If I am not mistaken, the "Platinum" moniker was an invention back in the day for their lighter colored animals, and the "Snow" thing is just total BS as there was no Axanthic at the time. (lighter albino, yes, true snow, never happened...yet) All there really is, is normal and albino. Not to say that the Platinum deal is all BS, much as the white head phase is a reality in black and whites, the platinum would be the equivalent there. Also, I posted on their FaceBook page asking about lineage as the ad said "ParentS" as in plural, were het. So, I HAD to ask, for myself and the general unsuspecting public. Naturally, they had the kid I spoke to on the phone over the page respond.(sure I have bad habits older than him) he made out like I was "frantic" trying to get a response with 2 posts 6 hours apart during business hours. I think that was fair, right? Well, the response I got was that the male was 100% het and proven and the female was het but not proven so she was considered a normal. This combo is the only way you'd get 50% het and I knew that, I just wanted to know that they knew that. I also broached the subject of the 60% price hike in the going rate for only a 50/50 chance at MAYBE getting albino. As far as i know the price has always been $300 for blue tegus, unless you got a deal. $200 more I think is WAY too much. They claimed they knew of nobody else offering blue tegus, let alone het for albino. I know of at least 6, one of which, at least, also has hets.
All said and done, anything is only worth what you can get someone to pay for it. I could sell you my car for $100,000 but is it worth it? Maybe so, come kick the tires for free!


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## Tyler137 (Jul 30, 2013)

Beasty said:


> Hey guys! I've been gone for a while but I'm looking to get back into the herp game now. I have been looking for blue tegus and I have spoken with Underground about theirs. I have followed the blue tegu thing since they hit the market. If I am not mistaken, the "Platinum" moniker was an invention back in the day for their lighter colored animals, and the "Snow" thing is just total BS as there was no Axanthic at the time. (lighter albino, yes, true snow, never happened...yet) All there really is, is normal and albino. Not to say that the Platinum deal is all BS, much as the white head phase is a reality in black and whites, the platinum would be the equivalent there. Also, I posted on their FaceBook page asking about lineage as the ad said "ParentS" as in plural, were het. So, I HAD to ask, for myself and the general unsuspecting public. Naturally, they had the kid I spoke to on the phone over the page respond.(sure I have bad habits older than him) he made out like I was "frantic" trying to get a response with 2 posts 6 hours apart during business hours. I think that was fair, right? Well, the response I got was that the male was 100% het and proven and the female was het but not proven so she was considered a normal. This combo is the only way you'd get 50% het and I knew that, I just wanted to know that they knew that. I also broached the subject of the 60% price hike in the going rate for only a 50/50 chance at MAYBE getting albino. As far as i know the price has always been $300 for blue tegus, unless you got a deal. $200 more I think is WAY too much. They claimed they knew of nobody else offering blue tegus, let alone het for albino. I know of at least 6, one of which, at least, also has hets.
> All said and done, anything is only worth what you can get someone to pay for it. I could sell you my car for $100,000 but is it worth it? Maybe so, come kick the tires for free!


So they must be worth it because they have already sold a lot of their blues..


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## Rhetoric (Aug 4, 2013)

Beasty said:


> Hey guys! I've been gone for a while but I'm looking to get back into the herp game now. I have been looking for blue tegus and I have spoken with Underground about theirs. I have followed the blue tegu thing since they hit the market. If I am not mistaken, the "Platinum" moniker was an invention back in the day for their lighter colored animals, and the "Snow" thing is just total BS as there was no Axanthic at the time. (lighter albino, yes, true snow, never happened...yet) All there really is, is normal and albino. Not to say that the Platinum deal is all BS, much as the white head phase is a reality in black and whites, the platinum would be the equivalent there. Also, I posted on their FaceBook page asking about lineage as the ad said "ParentS" as in plural, were het. So, I HAD to ask, for myself and the general unsuspecting public. Naturally, they had the kid I spoke to on the phone over the page respond.(sure I have bad habits older than him) he made out like I was "frantic" trying to get a response with 2 posts 6 hours apart during business hours. I think that was fair, right? Well, the response I got was that the male was 100% het and proven and the female was het but not proven so she was considered a normal. This combo is the only way you'd get 50% het and I knew that, I just wanted to know that they knew that. I also broached the subject of the 60% price hike in the going rate for only a 50/50 chance at MAYBE getting albino. As far as i know the price has always been $300 for blue tegus, unless you got a deal. $200 more I think is WAY too much. They claimed they knew of nobody else offering blue tegus, let alone het for albino. I know of at least 6, one of which, at least, also has hets.
> All said and done, anything is only worth what you can get someone to pay for it. I could sell you my car for $100,000 but is it worth it? Maybe so, come kick the tires for free!


 

Awesome reply. If people are willing to pay that much for it then of course they're going to ask a high price. Do I think its a good deal? Of course not but some people have the money to spend on a "maybe". Anyway, welcome back! I'd love to see pictures of your old tegus (on a separate thread).


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## Penny&Dollar (Aug 5, 2013)

@ rhetiric your right they are worth what people pay for them,well i've been waiting since last year to get a blue tegu and i couldn't find one,everyone i knew sold out or other people had gave deposits since last year. I didn't wanna leave a deposit cause the last time i gave a 300.00 deposit for 2 extremes i never got them or my money back but thats a different story,so i figured this was the only way and yes i was also told the same as beasty they didn't know about anyone else producing blue's and on top of that het for albino. so i jump and bought without shopping around but finally they are eating very well my local pet shop force feed them and now their eating extremely well. they even eat 93% lean turkey with liver calcium and multi vitamins and exploring like crazy. so your right when you really want something you'll pay what ever the asking price is but i learned my lesson from here on im gonna stick to breeders not pet stores breeders tend to care for animal and people more the pet stores.


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## laurarfl (Aug 5, 2013)

I don't think you over paid if they are possibly het for albino. And if you saw the parents and they are what you wanted, there you go...as they say.  Market value is what two people agree is fair. If you feel that you got a good deal and are happy with your purchase, then you should enjoy your tegus.


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## Penny&Dollar (Aug 5, 2013)

at first i wasn't but know that they are eating and all over the place i love them,penny(female) is a great hunter she catches crickets first try. now dollar(male) can't hunt for his dear life he runs all over chasing and can't i laugh but where he lacks at hunting he makes up with brains. he waits for penny to get one and then he takes it from her for some reason i can't post picture cause my phone ip got banned don't know why but it did and i dont know how to post from my mac. well dollar lets me hold him well at times he walks right into my hands and i can lay him on my chest and he cool stay and walks all over me,penny won't she will attack my hand 3 to 4 times and it hurts lolol then she will calm down and climb onto my hand. so i guess im extremely happy with them cause their fun to watch and their the first tegus i get from hatchlings all my other tegus i got around three months and they were already tamed. these i can tame myself and know whats its like to go step by step. so even though i feel like i still over payed cause like everybody says possible het is something that still has to be proven i love my baby gu's. thanks for all your help laura and keep me posted for next season i would love a female blk/red gu a lot of people recommend you


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## KSTAR (Aug 5, 2013)

It's great to hear they're doing ok! I'm happy for you


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## Rhetoric (Aug 6, 2013)

I am glad you are enjoying your tegus. They are the most rewarding animal I've kept, besides my dogs. Generally buying from breeders is better than a petstore. Regular b/w's in my area are easily $250-300 for hatchlings but again, people pay that. I hope nothing I've said in this thread has rubbed you the wrong way OP. Congrats on your tegus and I am excited to watch them grow.


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## Penny&Dollar (Aug 6, 2013)

Rhetoric said:


> I am glad you are enjoying your tegus. They are the most rewarding animal I've kept, besides my dogs. Generally buying from breeders is better than a petstore. Regular b/w's in my area are easily $250-300 for hatchlings but again, people pay that. I hope nothing I've said in this thread has rubbed you the wrong way OP. Congrats on your tegus and I am excited to watch them grow.


 

@ rhentoric nothing you said rubbed me the wrong way but it actually helped open my eyes thats all i will keep you guys posted on pictures and how their doing but first i have to send josh an inbox to see why my phone got band. once again thank you


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## laurarfl (Aug 6, 2013)

It was not banned by any of us on the moderation team. I think it is a just a weird fluke. I saw a couple of others that had a similar issue. I just didn't want you think we banned your phone IP.


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## Penny&Dollar (Aug 8, 2013)

Hey laura its working fine I guess it was just a fluke.


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