# Zilla has early MBD :(



## Aardbark (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi all

I took Zilla to the vet today, because she is still going through a bad shed. ts been almost a year now for her bad shedding problem.

I did not know that I had to replace my UVB bulbs after 6 months, I thought I had to replace them when the bulb went out. So she hasnt been getting proper UVB and is now starting to show signs of twitching. 

I am working with my vet to heal her up, and get her to being a happy healthy tegu. Im changeing her diet too, which I hope will help with her shed. The vet recomended pinkys, which I have not tried yet.

My question to you all is, can a tegu recover from MBD? If I give her proper sun and diet, will she get better? Can she get better?

Also, I dont need people telling me I screwed up, I already feel bad.


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## LizardzRock (Nov 9, 2012)

I heard and seen cases where they did and they didn't depending on the severity. I would consult more with your vet about this question, and ask how you can optimize Zilla's treatment plan. good luck to him.


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## TeguBuzz (Nov 9, 2012)

If caught early enough and then treated for in the proper manner, the affects are reversible.


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## ReptileGuy (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm sorry. Like TeguBuzz said you got great chances if caught early on. Best of luck to you and zilla!!


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## Aardbark (Nov 9, 2012)

Thants for the replys. I think its early on, because she shows little signs of it. She twitches a tiny bit and her legs are puffy. Also the vet ddint seem to worried about it and said that we dont need to do an xray for a closer look.


Followup question: What is the best UVB / Heat bulb that I can get?


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## ReptileGuy (Nov 9, 2012)

Powersun FTW!!!


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## Aardbark (Nov 9, 2012)

There are so many different bulbs, and so many different opinions on each bulb. Ive narrowed it down to the PowerSun, Solar-Glo, Sunforce and Mega-Ray.

Which is the best?


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## KABIKANO (Nov 9, 2012)

Sorry to hear about Zilla. Good luck and I hope everything turns out alright.


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## DavidRosi (Nov 9, 2012)

Just out of curiosity; how long had the said bulb been in place?

I'm really sorry to hear about it though; would break my heart if anything happened to my little lad; he's well and truly part of the familia. Hope it all works out


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## SnakeCharmr728 (Nov 9, 2012)

How old is she? you mentioned that shes had bad shedding over a year, which would make her at least a year old so I would be curious as to why the vet would recommend pinkies when she can take larger sized rodents and get way more nutrition and calcium benefits from them? Pinkies have a lot of fat and not much in the way of bones... The vet is right by saying that more rodent (or any whole prey - quail, chicks) would help with the calcium intake for her MBD but pinkies???? I'd disagree...


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## LizardzRock (Nov 9, 2012)

I use the 100 watt Zoo Med Power Suns always. On Zoo Meds site they have a bulb replacement reminder(http://zoomed.com/Join/UVBSignup.php) that you fill out and it emails you when the avg bulbs UVB lifespan has diminished so you can replace and or check it strength if you have a meter. The solar glo's are known to go bad pretty fast from what I read, and are not as robust as the Power Suns. Plus the UVB output is higher and more efficient based on lab tests for the power sun than most of it's competitors. I heard a lot of the companies started manufacturing outside the U.S. and the quality went way down and this included Zoo Med, but they learned quick and reverted back to U.S. manufacturing. Hope this helps and Zilla sounds like he will be fine


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## Aardbark (Nov 9, 2012)

I ended up ordering a Mega-Ray bulb, so we will see if that one is any good.

Zilla is about a year and 3 months old, give or take a few weeks. I got her at the end of july in 2011. She has definitly grown a lot, but she doesnt look big enough to me to be able to eat full grown mice. Ive never seen pinky mice so I dont know how big they are, but a full grown mouse looks like it wouldnt fit in her belly, let alone her mouth.


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## LizardzRock (Nov 9, 2012)

yea the mega rays I hear are good too i have just never had one personally. Pinkies are new born baby mice. They have no hair and are bald all over, eyes are not even open yet. I fed pinkies then fuzzys (stage after pinkie has little bit of fur, eyes open, small) I never have fed full grown mice, they just have too much hair which controversially is known to cause compaction in the digestive tract. But that is controversial among herpers, studies have been done of which find that it doesn't, but apparently that has been refuted too(mostly in the monitor community). Its like a herper soap opera... i know ppl who buy the frozen full grown mice and shave them of their fur prior to giving them to their gu or monitor. But yes all in all whole prey like mice, chicks, feeder snakes, pretty much anything without a immature bone development so the calcium in-take potential is higher like SnakeCharmr728 said as well.


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## james.w (Nov 9, 2012)

A year old tegu should be able to easily take a small mouse.


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## Bubblz Calhoun (Nov 9, 2012)

_What have you been feeding since you got her and exactly how big is she? Recent pics would be nice. At over a year old she should be big enough to take much larger prey than pinkies as previously mentioned, mouse or rat doesn't matter. 

The appropriate prey size should be nothing larger than the size and width of their head. Anything bigger and they won't be able to take it whole, just tear it apart and make a mess instead. Which can be good exercise at times but in her condition and not knowing the extent, I wouldn't risk it.

Mila is a Colombian and at almost two years old she's taking small rats. Everyone's different but with rats I choose to feed one appropriate sized, instead of a bunch of smaller ones. _


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

Thank you for all the responces and careing for my tegu, I really apretiate it.

Zilla has always been an extreemly picky eater. Ive tried to give her many things, from fruits (cherry, bannana, apple, strawberry, orange) and tried various meats (tuna, sardines, ground beef, ground turkey, ground pork, gizzards, chicken necks, meal worms, crickets, super worms, liver, just to name some that I can think of)
And the ONLY thing she would eat is ground turkey. I tried starving her for a week, and she still wouldnt eat anything else. So she has been eating ground turky for the past year. I always dust it with vitamin and calcum powder. The only thing I havent tried is whole prey. So Im hopeing she will take that.

I will try to add some pictures in a little bit.
She is 25 inches long from nose to tailtip.

















I tried to upload some comparison pictures.


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## TheTeguGurl (Nov 10, 2012)

[attachment=5732]<<Now[attachment=5731] <<<before 

Let me just start out and say I am really sorry to hear about Zilla.. My tegu murphy is a survivor or MBD, he had it so bad when I rescued him the vet wanted to put him down. They did xrays and bone test. He was pretty rough shape. I took him home and treated him . Calcium shots every day, brand new powersun bulb, natural sunlight. I had to force feed him for 2 mos before he ate on his own. His limbs were deformed. BUT NOW he is like a normal tegu eats healthy gets around. Althou the limbs on him will never be the same he is a fighter. If Murphy can do it so can zilla. Are you using a calcium dust for him? Zilla looks big enough for a mouse.. Also you may try chicken necks.. GREAT source of calcium. Just cut up in small bites for Zilla too.


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

Well its great to hear a recove story like that. Is Murphy the guy that kind of scoots around cuz his front legs dont work so well? I think Ive seen some youtube clips. Zilla isnt nearly as bad as that though. I do dust all her food, but she wont eat much. Im going to get some pinkys and some small mice and see if she will eat them. How exactly do you force feed tegus mice?


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## TheTeguGurl (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes that would be him  he has this like army crawl things going on.. Well when I was feeding him throu a syringe for mice.. This is going to sound gross, but i took a f/t mouse and put it in a blender. with either warme water or pedilight and blended it too a mushie smoothie.. Worked great



sarefina said:


> Yes that would be him  he has this like army crawl things going on.. Well when I was feeding him throu a syringe for mice.. This is going to sound gross, but i took a f/t mouse and put it in a blender. with either warme water or pedilight and blended it too a mushie smoothie.. Worked great



Most of the food he was eating was thru a syringe for the first 2 mos.. chicken baby food to other things I would put in the blender to make my own stuff.. Mice and bugs were one of them


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

Lol mouse smoothy.

Ok I got Zilla a brand new bulb and I sectioned of an area for her to bask in. My plan is to moniter her constantly, and sort of force bask her so she can get a lot of sunlight. I will watch her to make sure she doesnt get to hot. I also got some small frozen mice for her to munch on, which I will test to see if she will eat tomorow.

After a lot of basking with a good bulb and a proper diet, how long do you think it will take for her arms to stop shakeing?


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## james.w (Nov 10, 2012)

What bulb did you go with? I wouldn't force her to bask, they need to be able to cool down as much as they need to heat up. What size enclosure are you keeping her in??


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

I orderd a Mega-Ray bulb, but while Im waiting for that in the mail, I went out and got a Solar Glow. I know forceing her to bask is not the best thing, but she is being difficult and she really needs the ubv. All she wants to do is hide. I dont really know any other way to make sure she gets her uvb. It will only be in short 30 min sittings, and I will give her time to cool off in between them.

This is mostly for right now, literaly today. Because I still need to give her another soaking later tonight. During the day she normaly basks on her own for hours on end. But if she doesnt bask, I will have to force her again. Like I said, I dont want to but she needs her uvb badly. 

I have a 6x3.5x2 foot custom cage for her, which she mostly just stays in her hide. Hwever I am rearangeing it, so she has free wandering in my room.


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## TheTeguGurl (Nov 10, 2012)

When murphy was getting treatment. I just took his hide out for the day then put it back in at night. that way he could go to the other side of the cage to cool down if he wanted to. I know taking the hide out isnt recommend, but you have to do what you have to do to get them better... One hour in the natral sun equals to 8 hours or the uva/uvb bulb.


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## laurarfl (Nov 10, 2012)

Did the vet prescribe oral glucose in liquid form? Dust the mice with calcium powder and put her under the Power Sun. The shaking can resolve in a day or two.


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

I would give her natural sunlight if I could, but its dark and cloudy most days here, are bulbs that inefficiant? The vet didnt perscribe anything, just said to feed her pinkys, and bathe her 3 times a day.

I tried to give her a mouse just now, and she completely ignored it.


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## DavidRosi (Nov 10, 2012)

Try putting something on the mouse that your 'gu loves... Mine goes madhouse for a blueberry and anything that smells like one ! 

Or give mousy a wiggle... Small, jerky movements make my Colombian excitable and he's a puppy dog.


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## TheTeguGurl (Nov 10, 2012)

No the bulbs aren't inefficienct.. just not the real thing. try to dip the pinky into a little bit of egg yoke


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## SnakeCharmr728 (Nov 10, 2012)

I personally think you need a new vet. To prescribe pinkies for that problem and for a gu that size is ridiculous. She should be able to take a hopper at best with how big she is. I have a girl that has the same problem - she was a rescue. I am now feeding her nothing but whole prey. mice, rat pups, button quail chicks. --- if your basking temps are where they should be you shouldnt have any issues with impaction from fur etc....


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## james.w (Nov 10, 2012)

Ditto what SnakeCharmr said. Humidity is also very important to prevent impaction. You have got to get the husbandry right and leave her in the enclosure unless you are taking her out to get natural sun. If I remember correctly you let her free roam quite a bit, this is only contributing to the problem.


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

I do let her free roam a lot, she likes to explore. She has never had a problem pooping, but yes low humidity doesnt help with shedding. She does spend a lot of time in her cage too though, usualy night time, which has about 90% humidity (which is a recent change to her cage). I dont think its a problem to let her roam a lot, even days at a time. Keeping her in her cage a lot seems crewl since she is always clawing at the walls. In my room I have a basking spot and water set up for her, which she uses. I think most of her shedding problems are comming from what I was feeding her and the lack of good humidity in her cage. I am trying now to give her a better diet, and her cage has ample humidity. Can to much humidity be a problem?

As for my vet, it was my first visit and is the only reptile vet in my area. I dont really have a choice in the matter. I went shopping and got 'small' mice instead of pinky mice, they were tiny. I think the vet just wanted me to give her a better diet. Even the small mice seem pretty big for her to try to eat.

I wish I knew what Zilla liked so I could dunk the mouse into it. So far the only things she will eat are crickets and ground turkey. I havent tried honey or blueberries though.


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## james.w (Nov 10, 2012)

Letting a less than healthy tegu free roam is a big problem. She needs to be in a controlled environment until she is healthy and shedding properly.


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## TheTeguGurl (Nov 10, 2012)

I agree with james on this one! A controlled enivorment if she has MBD she needs high level of UV and humidity


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

I do agree with you there, that while she is healing she needs to be in a controled envyroment. Its just kind of hard when I need to make sure she basks, bathes, and eats. If she is in her cage, she goes straight for her hide and doesnt come out. And I really hate to have to pull her out of her hide every time I have to bathe or feed her.

She really didnt like the setup I made to 'force' bask her, so after about 10 min I took it appart. It was basicly just her old 30 gallon tank, with the basking light set up normaly, with some water and everything else removed. She is acualy basking by choice right now in her normal spot, and after her bath I will put her back in her cage. She really hates cages. Is there a way I can make her basking spot on my floor more humid? Do you think it is ok to have her bask on my floor during the day, ane then be in the humid cage at night? Or should I remove everything from her cage, except the basking spot and keep her in there? If I put her in her cage normaly, she will only hide.


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## Deac77 (Nov 10, 2012)

Kirby gets free roam of a closet but he has 3 mvb set up on stands and 2 water dishes (also has mbd) if he showed any signs I'd have him isolated even if he hates it for his own good that's where being a owner comes into it also cloudy days still put out moor UVB tha UVB bulbs just food for though also you could put the ground turkey on the mouse to get her to take it


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## Aardbark (Nov 10, 2012)

Im doing what I can to make sure she recovers. Even after just a few hours of basking she seems better, but that just might be in my head. She is sleeping in her humid hide now.

If I thaw out a mouse, and give it to her and she doesnt eat it, can I stick it back in the freezer or do I have to throw it out?


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## TheTeguGurl (Nov 10, 2012)

I wouldnt refreeze it! BUT that is my things...


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## james.w (Nov 10, 2012)

It would be ok to re-freeze it once.


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## laurarfl (Nov 10, 2012)

Not real crazy about the vet advice you were given there. She needs mice with bones and since she has early MBD, her appetite is down. She must have calcium in her system and UVB and dietary D to utilize the calcium. Perhaps when she is eating regularly and receiving adequate UVB, you can eliminate or reduce the dietary D. Like james said, the controlled environment is going to be best right now.


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## Aardbark (Nov 11, 2012)

I think the vet recomended pinkys because I said that Zilla is such a picky eater, and it might be easier to get her to eat a pinky, than to eat a mouse.


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