# crazy Tegu



## TeguLouie (Aug 19, 2011)

Louie is going nuts right now. i fed him the day before yesterday and he had 2 fuzzy mice. then for the next two days he was huffing and would come near me. today he is climbing and jumping all over the place. looks like he is searching for something and just being spastic. im thawing his turkey meal right now so im going to feed him again and see if he calms down but i just want to make sure that he is healthy. this isnt a sign of anything right?


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## james.w (Aug 19, 2011)

How big is the enclosure?


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## reptastic (Aug 19, 2011)

Why didn't you feed him the other 2 days? Chances are he really like those mice and is looking for more because he is hungry!


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## new2tegus (Aug 19, 2011)

Yep, just a heads up, I was measuring his meals, and I started feeding him 2 fuzzies and once checked the weight on them realized two were half what he was use to. So I bumped him up to 4 and he seems much more content and didn't seem to be searching for food. I know he's already getting bored of the cage though, so I will start putting together the new one soon.


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## james.w (Aug 19, 2011)

You should be feeding every day.


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## jdpFL (Aug 19, 2011)

Yep, I'd say definitely feed every day.


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## TeguLouie (Aug 20, 2011)

the reason it weas so long between meals is i look at his skin and wait for just a little wrinkle on his side before offering him food, because if i dont he wont eat it. and thats usually every other day. the extra day is because he hid the entire second day and i try not to disturb him. the cage is 4x2x2. with a big hide and a log and personal swimming pool. his temps are all correct. i have his reptizoo 125w about 15 inches from the bottom, humidity is always between 60-70%, and he usually eats every other day. ill try and feed him every day agin but it was just going to waste. 

also he wont let me pick him up, if i let my arm rest i his cage eventually he will crawl on me, then i just raise my arm, but definetly cant reach for him. he refuses to eat in his bin so im still feeding him in his cage.


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

Hm. I'm sure my opinion is vastly different from the rest of the keepers on here....but I believe you should pick him up anyway, and keep feeding him in a bin until he gives up and eats there. My savannah huffed and puffed like crazy at first...(hatchling)....but after a couple weeks learned that my picking him up means some dinner is on the way. I definitely do not condone unnecessarily stressing your reptiles....but when it comes to their care and well being... Sometimes you gotta do what you must. Besides...if you continue cage feeding, eventually you end up with a 3-4 foot lizard who charges you when that cage opens! Yikes! Lol. Again.. My opinion only, and everyone on this forum has one...


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## kellen.watkins (Aug 20, 2011)

I agree you gotta do what ya gotta a lil stress is way worth a full belly I can't even get my exrtreme out she bails into her hide and I'm not gonna disturb her in her hide


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## reptastic (Aug 20, 2011)

Atcually feeding in the enclosure isn't guranteed to make your tegu cage aggresive, I personally believe there is more to that, my tegus have all been fed in their enclosures at one time or another and none(expect my red) ever showed cage aggression, that's 5out of 6 tegus, the red was reaching puberty(my guess) he behaved that way regardles of were he was even toward other tegus, I say feed everyday, sometimes those lines may be there and thetegu won't Be hungry and vice versa, before they slowed down my tegus ate everyday even when that line was clearly not visible,just offer a small portion of food before the lights come on and see if he takes it when he awakes


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm with reptastic, I feed all of my reptiles in their enclosures and don't have any problems with aggression. Except my rhino iguana who has just recently started charging his food bowl when I set it in the enclosure. In my opinion the stress caused by manhandling them to move them to a feeding can cause more than just taming setbacks. Stress can cause them to not eat in or out of the enclosure. 

I would say 99% of successful Varanid keepers feed in the enclosure.


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

Lmao James. 99% huh. Got any documentation on those statistics? For that matter, the very act of owning these reptiles is probably stressful to them. Perhaps we should release them all back into their natural habitats. 

I was making a suggestion. Based on MY personal experience. I won't pretend to know what "everyone else does" as to feeding and husbandry. Just know what works for mine, and this forum is for sharing any knowledge and experience we all may have. 

How did I know there would be this type of response....must be psychic too.


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## jtpowers (Aug 20, 2011)

james.w said:


> I'm with reptastic, I feed all of my reptiles in their enclosures and don't have any problems with aggression. Except my rhino iguana who has just recently started charging his food bowl when I set it in the enclosure. In my opinion the stress caused by manhandling them to move them to a feeding can cause more than just taming setbacks. Stress can cause them to not eat in or out of the enclosure.
> 
> I would say 99% of successful Varanid keepers feed in the enclosure.



I think the term "manhandling" creates a straw man argument. No need to manhandle if the lizard has become comfortable that good things happen when their keeper comes around, but without having to act like a cage door opening means "snap, attack, kill." Both varanids and teiids are perfectly capable of learning such basic responses and I disagree that it is unduly stressful to gently move them (often with their own conditioned assistance) into a soak, a separate feeding area, a different enclosure, or outdoors for a UV and grass exploration. In fact, I fully expect a CB to behave differently than a recent WC, and why? Simply because they feel more secure, and they have become conditioned to understand that the large mammal walking into their enclosure room is a harbinger of positive events or at least is not a predator to evoke a fight or flight response. The lack of a complete spaz attack and fractious behavior isn't necessarily a sign of a sick animal OR a "stressfully playing dead" one. In fact, I would wager that a varanid or teiid keeper who has regular, predictable, nonthreatening interaction with their lizard as part of the daily husbandry routine is far more likely to notice any symptoms of illness long before the guy who throws a rat in and leaves the room...though to be clear I am also not saying that a responsible keeper who minimizes "handling" is doing anything suboptimal, either.


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

jdpFL said:


> Hm. I'm sure my opinion is vastly different from the rest of the keepers on here....but I believe you should pick him up anyway, and keep feeding him in a bin until he gives up and eats there. My savannah huffed and puffed like crazy at first...(hatchling)....but after a couple weeks learned that my picking him up means some dinner is on the way. I definitely do not condone unnecessarily stressing your reptiles....but when it comes to their care and well being... Sometimes you gotta do what you must.* Besides...if you continue cage feeding, eventually you end up with a 3-4 foot lizard who charges you when that cage opens!* Yikes! Lol. Again.. My opinion only, and everyone on this forum has one...



Any statistics on this. I have proof that this isn't true.

My 99% number is just an educated guess, check out varanus.nl and ask around about who feeds outside of the enclosure, especially hatchling and juvie varanids. I guarantee not one successful member there does it. Notice I say 99% of SUCCESSFUL varanid keepers, there are plenty of people that don't have a clue that feed out of the enclosure.

Why is it ok for you to state your opinion, but when I state my differing opinion I get a LMAO???


jtpowers said:


> james.w said:
> 
> 
> > I'm with reptastic, I feed all of my reptiles in their enclosures and don't have any problems with aggression. Except my rhino iguana who has just recently started charging his food bowl when I set it in the enclosure. In my opinion the stress caused by manhandling them to move them to a feeding can cause more than just taming setbacks. Stress can cause them to not eat in or out of the enclosure.
> ...



I agree the word "manhandling" can cause arguments/disagreements, but I think we are talking about two different things. When a tegu is running to hide, he is not comfortable with knowing good things happen when the keeper is around.

I don't think there is a problem with removing a lizard from it's home to feed if he doesn't contest to being picked up.


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

I guess it's just your attitude James. Maybe I'm just misreading you, but generally you come across as an expert in the field....with your "opinions." You are very quick to tell everyone else they are doing it all wrong...when truth is....this forum is just a place for folks who love their reptiles to share stories and advice. Seems you are way too preoccupied with being "right" and less concerned with sharing a love of reptiles and the hobby. Hence the "Lmao."

Point to OP was intended to be, if you "can't pick up" your hatchling...what happens when it needs a vet? Or when it's full grown? Then I went on to offer some friendly advice. I clearly stated that this was IMO...and personal experience. Would not attempt to quantify the statistics of feeding in enclosure vs feeding in a bin. 

I wonder how many people are discouraged by your "opinions"....since you seem to be consistently obsessed with what temps and enclosures are being used, rather than encouraging and being helpful with the herp experience that you have. I've seen you even go as far as to demand to know where people are getting their money to fed and house their animals. VERY different attitude than simply explaining that this can get to be a very expensive hobby. 

So, yeah. Lmao. That's just how I feel.


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## jtpowers (Aug 20, 2011)

James, I was going to comment on the other thread today regarding harnesses that I liked your ferret leash...looks more comfy than most iguana leashes I've seen...and that you've got a beautiful looking tegu (is that your AA?) Anyway, unless that sidewalk is in his enclosure, it looks like you also feed him outside the enclosure, at least some of the time. I don't see a problem with that or with the harness, but it appears inconsistent with your statement below. 



james.w said:


> I'm with reptastic, I feed all of my reptiles in their enclosures and don't have any problems with aggression. Except my rhino iguana who has just recently started charging his food bowl when I set it in the enclosure. In my opinion the stress caused by manhandling them to move them to a feeding can cause more than just taming setbacks. Stress can cause them to not eat in or out of the enclosure.
> 
> I would say 99% of successful Varanid keepers feed in the enclosure.


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## JohnMatthew (Aug 20, 2011)

jdpFL said:


> ....since you seem to be consistently obsessed with what temps and enclosures are being used



I think asking the enclosure conditions is a great way to start an inquiry as to what is going on with an animal. Truth be told, it should be included in the first, questionary post as a number of possibilities can be ruled out from the get-go with this information. As an example, this GU's actions could be explained by temps being way too hot and it trying to escape(so hot that burrowing isn't even an option). It could also be explained by a bored, hungry tegu. If it's just hungry or bored that's fine, we can take our time figuring that one out. If the temperature in the enclosure is dangerously hot, there's not really time to beat around the bush. This is especially important when seeking advice in a forum-like setting as answers aren't always right around the corner and giving information piecemeal just doesn't make sense if the well-fare of the animal is your priority. It also doesn't hurt to have recurring posts with actual temps, humidity, substrate, diet and lighting options so new people don't have to search quite so much to find this information. Most of us research and find out the right conditions that our animals require to thrive and do our best to meet these requirements. Unfortunately not all of the information out there is correct so really there's no harm in asking for someone to verify their husbandry stats. Being blunt when we ask for help or give advice is a good way to get the information out there without making people read a long, boring post like I just did.


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

I agree wholeheartedly John. Guess it's just the way it can come across with one particular poster. Maybe just a simple personality conflict, or that it's impossible to inflect too much nuance into text. I just don't like people to feel bullied or discouraged, especially by someone who is relatively new to the hobby. For example, if Varnyard were to reply with certain info, the source would just be more reliable. Years of successful experience and thriving tegus. Rather than just someone with too much time on their hands trying to berate others and discourage them from the hobby.

It still a fact that if I had a problem our question with my tegu, or any other reptile, I feel confident that I'd find the answers and help on this forum.


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## jtpowers (Aug 20, 2011)

[quote='JohnMatthew' pid='93395' ]
...without making people read a long, boring post like I just did. 


[/quote]

Nah, I think I hold the dubious distinction of doing that, especially when someone mentions UVB....but hey, the state of the available bulb market seems to get me fired up...


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

Can you show me a post where I said someone was doing something wrong. I ask for temps, humidity and such because it helps determine what the problem may be. Usually the OP is asking why something is the way it is, these questions help me and others to answer. I would say very few people are discouraged from my "opinions" based on the number of PMs I get from members asking me questions, but you obviously don't get to see those. I did the same thing you did by stating my opinion and what works for me and others I know in the industrdiane did so after another member disagreed with your opinion as well. I am sorry if my wording was offensive or argumentative as it was not intended that way. 



jdpFL said:


> I guess it's just your attitude James. Maybe I'm just misreading you, but generally you come across as an expert in the field....with your "opinions." You are very quick to tell everyone else they are doing it all wrong...when truth is....this forum is just a place for folks who love their reptiles to share stories and advice. Seems you are way too preoccupied with being "right" and less concerned with sharing a love of reptiles and the hobby. Hence the "Lmao."
> 
> Point to OP was intended to be, if you "can't pick up" your hatchling...what happens when it needs a vet? Or when it's full grown? Then I went on to offer some friendly advice. I clearly stated that this was IMO...and personal experience. Would not attempt to quantify the statistics of feeding in enclosure vs feeding in a bin.
> 
> ...



Thanks you and yes that is my AA. 

You are correct in that at times I do feed my large tegu out of his enclosure and don't have to chase or manhandle him to get him out. I guess I could have stated that I generally feed in the enclosure and have no problems. 

Now with my juvie sav, water, and melinus they are fed exclusively in their enclosures and with exception of me letting my water climb onto my hand are not handled or touched at all. 
[/font]


jtpowers said:


> James, I was going to comment on the other thread today regarding harnesses that I liked your ferret leash...looks more comfy than most iguana leashes I've seen...and that you've got a beautiful looking tegu (is that your AA?) Anyway, unless that sidewalk is in his enclosure, it looks like you also feed him outside the enclosure, at least some of the time. I don't see a problem with that or with the harness, but it appears inconsistent with your statement below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

Thank you for the apology James. Duly noted. 
And to clarify a bit, let me use an analogy. I have six children. If I were on a forum for parents, I would feel confident giving advice to new moms...not based solely on what I've read and researched about them, but from over 14 years of experience. 
That is the way I feel about this forum, and others like it. I've read all the articles, done all the research. Anyone can do that. I like the aspect of being able to share from personal experience, and learning from others. I would agree however that I should have said cage feeding COULD POSSIBLY result in aggression, not that it definitely will, as that was not what I intended to say or imply. OP was regarding a tegu, which is a lot different from a savannah. 
Feeding a large lizard is different than say, a ball python. Lizards are messy eaters. For me, personally, I'd rather not have bits of raw meat, fruits, etc. splattered around where my lizard has to sleep. Just seems easier to take them out. AND....I happen to have reptiles that do not appear stressed by these encounters. 
I will concede that feeding in the enclosure can be fine, and works for many. I only wanted to encourage the OP to interact a little more and see what happens.


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

It seems you are implying I have little experience with tegus/reptiles. Please correct me if I am wrong??


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

Not trying to imply anything. Sorry for being dramatic. Just forget it. 
Your post from a year ago say you are thinking about getting a tegu. You got your sav this past feb. I'm happy that you've learned so much over the past year and are willing to share that knowledge and research. Truly. 
Just wish you wouldn't slam others who are trying to enjoy the forum and get answers.
I'll extend the olive branch though. I don't like when things get snotty on here, and I'm sure no one else does either. I just wanna read about tegus, share pictures, and expand my knowledge.


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## JohnMatthew (Aug 20, 2011)

There's more than one way to skin a cat.. I don't think the advice people are giving necessarily clashes in this thread. Also it seems some comments are being made purely to rile feathers and I think that can stop. There are several reasons a lot of people recommend moving to a separate enclosure for feeding:

1) more interaction - they get used to being scooped up daily and moved
2) smaller chance of ingesting substrate and possibly causing an impaction
3) less likely your animal will become cage aggressive

This being said, I do not feed in a separate enclosure. I personally don't see the need and out of the limited number of tegus(3) I've raised from babies none have become cage aggressive nor have I had any impactions. These GUs of mine are quite tame and this is with minimal handling but daily interaction for their first year(minus hibernation of course). I'm not saying anybody should use my method, but it has worked well for me.


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

Well said, John. That's all I originally intended, to share what works for me. With things like temperature, types of food, vitamins, uv, etc....there are definite proven answers as to what tegus need. With handling, where to feed, leash or no leash, etc....there are a million ways to take care of your pet. And I enjoy reading about them all.


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

Yes i am new to Tegus, but other reptiles I have been keeping around 20 yrs.

And like I asked before please show me a post where I slammed someone or said someone was doing something wrong.


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## reptastic (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm sorry jdpfl, but I have been on this forum for nearly 2 years, another tegu forum for about 4.5 yrs, I have learned everything I know about tegus from bobby hill(as all my tegus came from him) and people like james.w I never seen a post were he berated anyone however when a newcomer comes along with a problem/situation james is usually one of the first to respond with very helpful advice, seems you havnt been on this forum long so I'm curious as to were you are getting this info from


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

Thank you reptastic. 

And John, I as well agree with everything you have added in this thread. My first post in here was agreeing with reptastic and stating my opinion on the subject. It seems for some reason jdpFL took offense to what my opinion was since it conflicted with hers.


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

Well this thread is here for all to read, so you can re-read and see where I stated that I fully expected varying opinions on the subject. However, I expected them to be polite.


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

How was mine not polite??


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## jdpFL (Aug 20, 2011)

I do not "manhandle" any of my reptiles. Not do I cause them undue stress. So I suppose I should feel honored to be a part of the "1%" of "successful varanid keepers" who feeds outside the enclosure.


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

So because I used the word "manhandle" I was not polite. I never said you manhandled anything. 

As far as being a successful varanid keeper, I don't think your Sav is old enough for you to consider yourself successful. I would guarantee your practices of the way you keep you Sav would get you laughed off of Monitor specific forums.


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## new2tegus (Aug 20, 2011)

How about we stay on topic and stop pissing in each others sandboxes. Are we back to grade school again.


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## TeguLouie (Aug 20, 2011)

so.... well i try to hold louie at least once a day when i get home from work, and try to feed him around them. his cage is all the right temps, about 105 usually on the hot side and 85 or so i the middle, and a little less on the cool side. at night as im stationed in socal it gets to about 68-70, same numbers with humidity. his mulch is cypress, hes in a 4x2x2 and has about 12-13 hours of light everyday depending on when i get home, or when my wife turns off the light. his diet is mostly ground turkey with vitamins and calcium next week im going to puree his liver and turkey together with the same supplements, he gets two fuzzies every 5 days, and on an occasion he gets a soft boiled egg. he refuses to look at mealworms or any insect at all. shows no interest in any fruit i have put in front of him. the way i get him to come to me is i open his door and either sit with my arm under his his log by the water or i put my back to the open door and wait for him to climp onto my shoulder. he likes to rest on my head. when i reach for him no matter how fast or slow i get tail whipped. doesnt hurt but makes me jump.

when in his bin he just scratches at the sides of his bin, its a black storage tub, and tries to jump out. he hates the water, when i put him in the tub he just goes to the dry side and tries to climb out. 

i absolutely love my lizard and want him to grow as big and strong as i can get him. just really want to kow if anythig i am doing is wrong, or if the way he is acting all of a sudden is beacause he is scared or is it the beginning signs of some condition?

we lost him in the bathroom about 6 days ago and i ended up having to cut away a good portion of the cabinet to get him out, after that i held him for a little while to calm him down and warm him up. he seemed fine, even the next day he would come to me. but after that he really has wanted nothing to do with me, he puffs up when ever i walk by his cage, does the huffing sound when i open his door and stands up on all fours at the slightest move towards him. i will not give up, im not getting rid of him for any reason, i just want to make sure he gets the best possible care from me.

i am a first time reptile owner but have been around mostly BP snakes growing up as both my brother and sister have one.

so if anyone can just double check what i am doing and tell me what is good and bad i would greatly appreciate it.


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## james.w (Aug 20, 2011)

Your setup sounds spot on, so my guess would just be an acclimation issue. Just give him time, offer food everyday and spend time in the enclosure spot cleaning and moving things around to show him you aren't a threat. You didn't mention how long you have had him, but I would assume a fairly short time. As far as feeding in the enclosure since he doesn't eat insects you don't have to worry about him chasing food around ingesting substrate. Just put the food in a bowl and put down some newspaper or I used to use a lid from a large rubbermaid tub to feed on.


new2tegus said:


> How about we stay on topic and stop pissing in each others sandboxes. Are we back to grade school again.



Thanks for adding your useless 2 cents, if you were so worried about it being on topic you should have stayed out of it.


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## new2tegus (Aug 21, 2011)

James, no comment, but then again, you seem oblivious that quite a few people take issue with you condescending tone, or your I know everything responses. I'd be shocked if you aren't on every herp board known, and just as well liked. Please do us all a favor, log and delete....


As far what you said Louie, sounds pretty good and I know how you feel. I'd like to try the multiple foods but mine has gotten picky, and will only eat whole prey items. I'm trying to slowly trick him into getting back on turkey with adding small pieces next to his fuzzies. He took a couple bites of salmon but then walked off. He still is to timid to let me pick him up, climbing up he will do but that gives him a window to bolt.


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## james.w (Aug 21, 2011)

It seems the people that take offense are those of you that try to be "know it alls" yourself. Like I said earlier I have been PMed multiple times by multiple members asking my opnion on different subjects as well as my reputation on this board. It seem there a many new members here that are distorting the words that I write and turning it into me talking down to people. It is quite difficult to put "tone" into text, but apparently you are mind readers and know how I am coming across.


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## laurarfl (Aug 26, 2011)

james.w said:


> Thanks for adding your useless 2 cents, if you were so worried about it being on topic you should have stayed out of it.


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## herpgirl2510 (Aug 26, 2011)

I have a 3 foot 14 month old savannah she is always fed in her enclosure I use tongs with mice. I also will feed Tonka in his enclosure . When I am going to feed them I say their names and approach hands behind the bowl just in case. I have never had an issue with Tonka being aggressive he is 2 42" and about 13 - 14 pounds. Sometimes Lilo my savananh will run up but I show her the back of my hand and she stops. Once she sees only my hand she is uninterested. I think your guy is acclimating it tooks 2 months before chevy my extreme would eat anything but turkey he did not want bugs. Last week he went crazy for the first time for duias. I think one your guy settles in things will get better. The incident of him escaping was probably a bit traumatic. Feeding in or out of the enclsoure is each person's decision. I still do not think people should remove them from their hides or chase them around the tank to catch them and put them in a feeding bin.


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## jdpFL (Aug 26, 2011)

I should explain the back story a bit. My snakes I fed in their enclosures. Lizards in a bin or bathtub. I'm sure feeding in the enclosure can work if you don't plan to handle them much, or you find a way to make them not associate the opening of the cage an automatic attack response. The reason I was so excited about feeding in a different location, is this: when we got our tegu I honestly thought if never be able to handle him. It may have been that he was underfed....may have had improper temps or humidity, the enclosure may have been too small...or a combination of all of these things, but he was Very aggressive. When someone got near the door of that enclosure...he rushed it, mouth open...ready for blood. He has never once acted aggressively toward us since we got him. So, all I wanted to say was that for taming purposes, it really CAN be a way to show your tegu, or savannah, that GOOD things happen when their human shows up! Ie. Dinner! 

Sorry for all the typos, hard to write correctly from phone. Ugh.


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