Argentine or Extreme Giant?

[cashmoney24]

Hi, I wanted to get your alls opinion as to whether my guy is a regular Argentine or Extreme Giant. I got him from Bobby about a year ago, and was sold to me as a giant. However, based on his markings and color, I'm not so sure that he is. I also posted this question in the giant section but didn't get allot of feedback there. So, I was hoping to try my luck here. I'm fairly certain he is a he, as he was sold to me as a male, and I have felt the "bbs" by his vent. Thanks in advance.

 

[SnakeCharmr728]

Looks like a normal argentine b/w to me but please be aware that extreme giants ARE argentines. They are the same species.

 

[cashmoney24]

You sure about that? Then why are they referred to as Chacoans and not just Argentines? They may have the same scientific name, but my understanding is that they are from different locales, and are therefore different from one another. If I'm wrong, please somebody feel free to correct me.

 

[TegusRawsome80]

A locale is a different area where a species occurs that has minor differences such as color. They are the same species and are barely at all different from one another. "Giants" are also not proven to be any larger than "regular" Argentine Black and Whites. That being said, it looks like a normal Argentine to me.

 

[Roadkill]

Unfortunately, cashmoney24, you are wrong (as are many hobbyists). Like many, you have assumed the common name actually implies a meaning, when in fact they are just a label that some other hobbyist has pulled out of the nether and slapped on a product for sale. Even the name "Argentine black and white" tegu is a bogus epithet with little meaning. North America, and I believe Europe and Australia, have scientific bodies that regulate the "official" common names of species that are endemic (ie. naturally occur in those areas), but much of the world does not, including South America. Near as I can tell (and I'm fully admitting I do not have much of anything concrete to back up this claim), the name "Argentine black and white" solely comes about because some of the first pet tegus imported came from Argentina, and so that's what hobbyists called them. This has since become lodged firmly in the hobbyists' minds as the "official" common name (ie. Argentine black and white = Salvatore merianae), despite the fact that until this last year no scientific body ever referred to them as such and the fact that so few tegus of this species actually live in Argentina (they are endemic to pretty much all of South America with the vast majority of them in Brasil). The term "Chacoan" is an even worse conjecture that came out of Bobby Hill's mind. The man has never been to South America, let alone the Chacoan region, no one has as yet been able to successfully delineate any subspecies or locality specific groups (not that it hasn't been tried, just not accepted) because there is soooooo much variation in the species (this may be due to the fact that there may be numerous cryptic species in what is currently considered one species, but this is pure speculation on my behalf), all that can be said is that Mr. Hill claims to have imported tegus from a wholesaler located in the Chacoan region (a dubious claim at most because Mr.Hill has been proven regularly to be a liar to a high degree), selectively bred some for the traits he called a Chacoan, and then marketed said product at an inflated price. Having been to South America and studied tegus there, I can guarantee you that there is so much variation in the region that I doubt what people want to call a "Chacoan" even represents a standard for the area. Furthermore, considering the general Gran Chaco region encompasses parts of Bolivia, Brasil, Paraguay, and Argentina, it really makes the idea of them being "different locales" an erroneous idea; it would be like claiming the Mississippi drainage basin and Arkansas are different locales.
Then there's the whole wonderful aspect that no one can (or maybe will) give a clearly definitive description of what makes a tegu a Chacoan (or just about any other morph for that matter) or eliminates it from such possibility, and so the whole issue of arguing if one has a Chacoan or not is merely an exercise in futility.

 

[cashmoney24]

Road kill, I appreciate your detailed response. I stand corrected and misinformed.

 

[cashmoney24]

And overcharged! Lol!

 

[Roadkill]

Depends on how you want to see it. If you like the tegu you got and don't mind the price, then that's fine. If you wanted a brand name and paid extra for said brand name when there is no actual "official" brand name, then I guess your perspective would be you got taken advantage of. There's nothing wrong with wanting a particular set of traits, but when someone can't even say what traits go with a name, then paying extra for the name seems folly.

 

[cashmoney24]

Right. I like the guy I got, and thought I was paying for what were certain traits (increased white coloration). However, I'm not seeing those traits, and apparently the people that have commented on him don't either. I don't feel ripped off. I'm happy with him. I just wanted to get people's opinion.

 

[19cobra93]

He looks like a regular "she" to me. Regardless, it appears to be healthy and happy, so nice job so far. It's nice to see you at least got something from Bobby. Not everyone can say that.