Black and White Coloring

[Mike M.]

So most of my tegu experience comes from the Argintine Reds, and about 6 months back I picked up a black and white just leaving the green head stage. When I got the little one she had an orange belly which I knew to expect. Now recently She is picking up orange streaks on her face and along her back. Every site I go to, to research this its always the orange belly and no mention of arms, face or back. Im just wondering how natural is this.

 

[snibborsirk]

Mike - thats an awesome little tegu! Yes - the orange is usually on the belly or underside of legs/throat, etc... You happen to know who the breeder was? Any chance its actually a b&w/red cross?

 

[Mike M.]

Thats what I was thinking with the mix. I dont know who the breeder is specifically, I got it from snakesatsunset, they claimed it to be a Chacoan, but from my research thats hit or miss. Regardless I really enjoy the coloration, just thought it was unique since I couldn't find any pictures of ones with orange striping on the back.

 

[snibborsirk]

Cool - my male is actually from them as well. Got him back in November also as a supposed Chacoan. He has a good amount of orange underneath but def not that awesome orange striping. It will be interesting to see how the color changes with age. Looks a little bit like this female whose pic is in the gallery!

 

[Walter1]

It's beautiful. Looks like a very colorful hybrid.

 

[Mike M.]

Oh wow that female is awesome. When I get home I'll get mine out in the sun for a better picture of the striping.

 

[Dee-Dee Idrais]

So most of my tegu experience comes from the Argintine Reds, and about 6 months back I picked up a black and white just leaving the green head stage. When I got the little one she had an orange belly which I knew to expect. Now recently She is picking up orange streaks on her face and along her back. Every site I go to, to research this its always the orange belly and no mention of arms, face or back. Im just wondering how natural is this. View attachment 10628 View attachment 10629 View attachment 10632

Beautifull

 

[Roadkill]

Wrong colour to be a hybrid. S. rufescens red is quite distinguishable, that's typical S. merianae orange. These guys have a lot of variation in their colouring and patterning, it is NOT a safe bet to jump to "hybrid" just because it doesn't look like something you've seen before. Futhermore, even if we accept the "Chacoan" label, it was not a strain that was bred for any length of time to provide a "pure" background, it is going to have a lot of variations from that which people see as "ideal".

 

[Walter1]

I don't know, Roadkill. Beautiful red/firebelly Argentine for sure, but the dorsal color and pattern doesn't look Argentine to me. Favors red. Still, I may not have seen enough wild Argentines see all the variation.

 

[Justin]

Looks like a hybrid to me. The pattern and coloration looks similar to my 25/75 red/bw.

 

[Roadkill]

The patterning is interesting, but it doesn't really say for sure. Here's my reasoning: the colour is off (the red of S. rufescens is VERY particular, and is one of the reasons it was described as a new species - that tegu doesn't have that red, which from the hybrids I've seen, seems to still "shine through"), and right now the tegu trade is a charlatan's market. What I mean by that is it is VERY clear people who are into tegus will jump at any claim no matter what without any sort of authentification. People are paying extra for hybrids. So either you have someone who's gone to extent of getting different species, learning how to breed and incubate, putting in the effort to get the offspring to a decent age for selling, but is somehow completely ignorant of this (or doesn't care enough), or we have wishful thinking. Not saying the former isn't possible, but the odds of one over the other are staggering. Over the last 15 years, every time someone sees a slight variance, I've seen "hybrid!" screamed (you would be amazed how frequent this is), which was particularly interesting because many of these people screaming hybrid couldn't sit down and tell what would characterize the parent species in the first place. I would have to admit, maybe I've got a bias, but considering how many people have itchy trigger fingers to jump at something special, I'll always stick to "if you don't know the parents, err on the side of caution".

 

[Justsomedude]

I just got a chacoan from snakes at sunset and he def has some red markings as well! Interesting. They are listed as CB babies from South America so who knows if they keep them in large groups maybe there's a red ore two in the bunch!? I'll take some pics and post em when he wakes up....man he's got the life!

 

[Walter1]

The patterning is interesting, but it doesn't really say for sure. Here's my reasoning: the colour is off (the red of S. rufescens is VERY particular, and is one of the reasons it was described as a new species - that tegu doesn't have that red, which from the hybrids I've seen, seems to still "shine through"), and right now the tegu trade is a charlatan's market. What I mean by that is it is VERY clear people who are into tegus will jump at any claim no matter what without any sort of authentification. People are paying extra for hybrids. So either you have someone who's gone to extent of getting different species, learning how to breed and incubate, putting in the effort to get the offspring to a decent age for selling, but is somehow completely ignorant of this (or doesn't care enough), or we have wishful thinking. Not saying the former isn't possible, but the odds of one over the other are staggering. Over the last 15 years, every time someone sees a slight variance, I've seen "hybrid!" screamed (you would be amazed how frequent this is), which was particularly interesting because many of these people screaming hybrid couldn't sit down and tell what would characterize the parent species in the first place. I would have to admit, maybe I've got a bias, but considering how many people have itchy trigger fingers to jump at something special, I'll always stick to "if you don't know the parents, err on the side of caution".

Charlatan's market is a superb description. I have to wonder if both situations are likely. You know your reds very well, and natural variation in Argies can have a different kind of red. Still, and much to my genuine disgust, herpetoculture thrives on fake novelty AND on hybridization, and with great pride.

So, I'm on the fence with this post's tegu. You're not seeing rufescens red in it, which carries weight to me, but I wonder if its hybridization is not primary but maybe 1/4, etc??

 

[Walter1]

I just got a chacoan from snakes at sunset and he def has some red markings as well! Interesting. They are listed as CB babies from South America so who knows if they keep them in large groups maybe there's a red ore two in the bunch!? I'll take some pics and post em when he wakes up....man he's got the life!

Indeed possible and also as Roadkill said, just natural variation. Either way, best one is the one you like. Please post pics and congrats.

 

[Justsomedude]

Indeed possible and also as Roadkill said, just natural variation. Either way, best one is the one you like. Please post pics and congrats.

Yea could not agree more in the end it's a beautiful pet reptile no matter it's bloodlines and personally I think it looks cool as hell!