food aggression - improvement :D

[Rhetoric]

Over the last few days my smaller male has started to be a bit more aggressive during feeding times and pretty much any time he sees me in the garage. I'm wondering if its because he isn't getting enough to eat?
Today I went to take him out to feed him and as soon as he saw me in the garage he went nuts and was charging the plexiglass doors and when he saw my hands going to open the door he was bitting at the glass... Not just a few nips but like serious savage biting. He was going crazy!
I went back inside and waited a bit to see if he would calm down but he didn't. I know I shouldn't have but I just put the bowl of mice in the enclosure because he would not stop bitting and fighting to get out.
I feel bad now because I don't want to be reinforcing the behavior but I really didn't have time to keep playing games with him.
He ended up eating 4 large mice and seemed to have calmed down. I try to feed them all at the same time but with Gary it seems like if its even a half hour late hes going crazy...
He's really sweet and nice when hes not hungry... I just don't know what to do with him when hes like this. I don't want to wear gloves if possible but I don't want him to be chomping down on my fingers after seeing him today.. Do I wait and see if he calms down before removing him or just deal with it? Should I start splitting up his meals into smaller ones a few times a day?
He's ALWAYS hungry lately, he's eaten up to 6 mice in one sitting before.. He's also eaten like 10 oz of ground turkey with banana and berries in a sitting... Its insane how much hes eating!
The female and Guru have no issues with food. The female will sometimes get excited and come over to the door but she just sits and waits... I feed Guru in his enclosure but hes never had any issues, I can put food in and remove it right in front of his face and he could care less.

I'm looking at other posts and threads on this site and a few others, if anyone has any info or suggestions please leave them! I feel bad for Gary, I don't know if he truly is hungry or of hes just being a butt-head.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

RE: food aggression

Depending on how often and what you feed it could be a little of both,.. him being hungry and a butt head. But if he's acting that way now,.. I would stop feeding him in his cage all together. Does he act the same way if you let him come out on his own then feed him? Or give him a little time to explore, calm down and stretch out before feeding.

When I came back from Germany Dino was a bit cage aggressive. My coworker let me know before hand that he was since she couldn't always feed him out side of it. When I got him home if he acted up he stayed in his cage and I wouldn't bother him. When he was calm I opened the door and left if for him to come out on his own. After a while he would only rush half way out of his hide or half way to the glass then stop. He still postured but it was progress so I didn't care.

Eventually he figured it out and we got back on track.

 

[Rhetoric]

RE: food aggression

I've been feeding gary in a rubbermaid tub. He was fine with me taking him out and seeing me in the garage until almost a week ago. I'm feeding him daily, he's been eating the most frequently and the most in general out of the 3. I thought I was feeding him enough, he would inhale food for a good 10 minutes and then stop eating so I'd put him back and he would go bask. I wouldn't mind trying to split up meals but I don't want to be wasting food either. That was third time I had fed him in the enclosure. The other 2 times I had put the food in shortly before the lights were on because I wasn't going to be home during the day.
His cage is stacked on top of my other one so he hasn't really gotten the chance to come out on his own much. He's come out and up my arm a few times and seemed alright but that was also after being fed. I'll see if I can find a way to make it easier for him to get out on his own and see if it helps.
If it is a true hunger thing I don't want him to go hungry. If its more of an increased aggression thing I want to deal with it as quickly as possible.
Would it be bad to use gloves until this gets resolved? The gloves I have are welding gloves and I can't imaging them tasting very great lol. None of them have bitten me, usually I would think it to be more of a bluff but since its a food response I don't think he would hesitate to bite in the excitement.

 

[Toby_H]

RE: food aggression

The simple first step is to feed him larger meals or meals more often. Maybe toss a mouse or two in the enclsoure in the morning before work, then a normal meal after work. It does sound like it is possibly a hunger issue.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

RE: food aggression

Also,.. keeping with feeding more or larger meals. Instead of mice switch to rats.

 

[Rhetoric]

RE: food aggression

yep yep i was going to flip back to rats, guru was on rats but i got 120 mice when i got gary and the girl. not bad! 2 tegus, mice and enclosure for 200 lol.

 

[Rhetoric]

RE: food aggression

:s:s:huh::huh:

Sooooo today I went to feed my tegus as usual. Now I'm starting to get a little worried! I went into the garage, gary came running over to the glass and acutally jumped up and hit it! I waited a few minutes in the garage but not near the enclosure, pretending to do other stuff in there.
When I went back over the female also came over to the glass, which is not uncommon, and gary chased her off! He didn't nip at her but he stood higher than usual and ran at her! She ran off to the other side and waited. I took Gary out and he was biting my gloves and fighting the entire time. He inhaled his mahi mahi and then I put him back in the enclosure, he didn't put up a fight after eating and sitting in the tub for a few minutes.
I took the female out and fed her. No issues from her, she just squirms when I pick her up but no aggression.
When I put her back they both went to the basking rocks and just laid there together as if nothing happened.


As of right now I don't have a third enclosure, I can find another online but it would most likely be a large aquarium until I can get something built. I know I should already have the 3rd one but these guys have gotten along all the time except this recent feeding issue.

I'm getting worried!

---

Other members of the house, including myself, go into the garage all the time. Our washer and dryer are out there as well as a second fridge/freezer. It's not like the only time they see people is when they get fed.

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I don't know if this is cruel or anything but is there something I can spray him with to shift his attention or would that make things worse? I know when our cat and Riley first met, Riley just wanted to chase her so I squirted Riley with water and she'd stop going after the cat. Ugh I feel like I could be over reacting but this is just a bummer, hes usually such a sweet tegu!

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I don't feel like I'm feeding them too late, I've always fed them early afternoon about an hour or so after the lights come on.

 

[slideaboot]

RE: food aggression - worsening

Sounds like a housing issue to me, potentially.

 

[Maro1]

RE: food aggression - worsening

Mine went through this same thing. Jumping at the glass to feed. I dealt with it this way. When I came into the room and he jumped at the glass. I slowly made it over to the cage making him wait a bit. I then opened the door and let him out. He would move around the room a bit. After burning off some energy I could then feed him. I think all that food translates to tons of energy and letting him run around a bit seemed to help. I also noticed that this happened only when he was in a big growth spurt. Otherwise he was just calm most of the time. The second time this happened a few moths later I did the same thing and it seemed to work again.

Maro1

 

[Tensleep]

RE: food aggression

:s:s:huh::huh:

Sooooo today I went to feed my tegus as usual. Now I'm starting to get a little worried! I went into the garage, gary came running over to the glass and acutally jumped up and hit it! I waited a few minutes in the garage but not near the enclosure, pretending to do other stuff in there.
When I went back over the female also came over to the glass, which is not uncommon, and gary chased her off! He didn't nip at her but he stood higher than usual and ran at her! She ran off to the other side and waited. I took Gary out and he was biting my gloves and fighting the entire time. He inhaled his mahi mahi and then I put him back in the enclosure, he didn't put up a fight after eating and sitting in the tub for a few minutes.
I took the female out and fed her. No issues from her, she just squirms when I pick her up but no aggression.
When I put her back they both went to the basking rocks and just laid there together as if nothing happened.


As of right now I don't have a third enclosure, I can find another online but it would most likely be a large aquarium until I can get something built. I know I should already have the 3rd one but these guys have gotten along all the time except this recent feeding issue.

I'm getting worried!

---

Other members of the house, including myself, go into the garage all the time. Our washer and dryer are out there as well as a second fridge/freezer. It's not like the only time they see people is when they get fed.

---

I don't know if this is cruel or anything but is there something I can spray him with to shift his attention or would that make things worse? I know when our cat and Riley first met, Riley just wanted to chase her so I squirted Riley with water and she'd stop going after the cat. Ugh I feel like I could be over reacting but this is just a bummer, hes usually such a sweet tegu!

---

I don't feel like I'm feeding them too late, I've always fed them early afternoon about an hour or so after the lights come on.

---

It sounds like very typical cage aggression. You stated previously that you feed in his cage. Virtually all animals will learn by association and patterns. Your pattern of feeding associates you with food, simple enough. Your Tegu doesn't storm around his enclosure jumping and biting at inanimate objects does he?. He sees you coming and knows it is time to turn on the feeding behavior from his past experience. "You = food". A hungry animal will not act aggressive until they see the opportunity to feed. Hungry animals are not aggressive, they are just hungry. I do not believe his behavior is a hunger issue. Perhaps you shall have to change your feeding pattern entirely. Change the time of day you feed? A cool reptile is easier to manage than one that has warmed up. If you let him out when his has just woken and leave him outside his cage and let him warm up a bit and then offer food outside his cage, it may make it easier for you to approach the situation. And as far as association goes, many of us have heard of the "clicker" training method. It works the same as ringing a dinner bell. When the dinner bell rings it means time for dinner. A clicker is the same but clicks instead of ringing. So picture this: Your cool Tegu out of his cage, no food for a few minutes as you bond with him, then after a few minutes of "warm up" you click, ring a bell or whistle (it doesn't matter what you do) and present a plate of food. If you stick with it, your tegu will no longer associate "you" with food but rather the ring of the dinner bell. Just a thought that may be helpful or not. Hope it all works out!

 

[Rhetoric]

RE: food aggression - worsening

Guru has always been fed in his enclosure with no issues, I can pull food from right in front of him and he doesn't care.. Not that I frequently do that lol. He pays no attention to what goes in and out of his enclosure.

Gary the one with the issues has been fed inside the enclosure 3 times. I've had him for a little over a month, the previous owner did not feed either of them in the enclosure.

I'll try feeding him earlier in the day before he has a chance to get warmed up. I'm also going to see if feeding him again in a little while might help. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts blowing up again by the way hes been eating lately. Generally when I feed Gary and the female I bring them to the food rather than move them then present food. I'm willing to try anything. I've seen a few videos on youtube with the clickers.

I appreciate any and all advice I get. I don't want anyone to get hurt (myself included), I was really worried when he jumped at the glass.. It didn't seem to phase him but I don't want him to be injured or injure the other tegu hes housed with.

As for the housing, I know I need a 3rd enclosure, I'm going to have to get that going sooner than expected. I was hoping that for the time being there wouldn't be any conflicts between the two of them but I should have been more prepared, thats my fault. When I had gotten them I was told they were both girls, I thought maybe they could be housed together. They were still fairly small, just over 2 ft. Then I found out Gary was a male and this food-cage-aggression started.

 

[herpgirl2510]

RE: food aggression - worsening

I don't have alot of experience but maybe he is going through a growth spurt so he is pretty hungry and also sees the female as competition for the food. I would take the advice and stop feeding in the cage at all, some tegus are probably fine with it and some not. I would go in there a few extra times a day without food maybe let him roam around and work off some energy. Maybe it is a puberty thing too I am not sure when that happens. Is he aggressive with the female any other time besides when they know food is coming? New enclosures can be pretty simple I just made one in a day when I found out I was getting another male. Plywood box I am still working on the doors today I just stapled clear vinyl on the front so mine could not escape.

 

[slideaboot]

RE: food aggression - worsening

Honestly, it sounds to me like there's a bit of competition going on in the enclosure between the two lizards and the stress is manifesting in the aggressive behavior you are witnessing.

 

[Rhetoric]

RE: food aggression - improvement!

He must not be a big night eater, tuesday?, he didn't touch the food I offered at night.
Yesterday I fed Gary right as their lights were coming on. I let him hang out on the garage floor for a few then put him in the rubbermaid to eat. No aggression or behavior issues.
This morning, same thing, took him out to feed him before he could get too warmed up and no issues. He's eating the same amount as he has been, a good amount. But won't eat more if offered.
I'm really happy! I feel silly that this is all its taken, hopefully it keeps working out.

 

[james.w]

RE: food aggression - worsening

Just something to add about the bell, whistle, or clicker to notify them of feeding time. I was watching a show on the Komodo and in the zoo in Houston (I believe it was Houston), the girl that takes care of the Komodo uses purple gloves for feeding. When she had the gloves on and would put her hand near the cage the Komodo would try to bite, but without the gloves she could put her hand near his mouth and nothing. Just found this interesting and along the lines of this thread.