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- 96
The more I look at rescue reptiles the more I want to wipe out humans.
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Reptilian Giants.....AS PETS!?!?!?!?!?
- Thread starter ihatehumans
- Start date
- Messages
- 2,673
- Location
- Central FL
Or the reward of educating an owner and helping them keep their animal with proper care.
People aren't perfect, but hey, we all live here together. I'm just try to stay positive in general.
People aren't perfect, but hey, we all live here together. I'm just try to stay positive in general.
- Messages
- 2,673
- Location
- Central FL
The kids aren't the problem...they love reptiles. Something happens when they grow up.
We're doing a two day show this weekend in a predominantly AA area. I'm not stereotyping, but I found that this neighborhood has a lot of misconceptions about herps and a lot of fear. The residents that do keep them don't always know how to care for them properly. I've been working with them for years at community events and summer camps. They all know me...Hey Miss Laura or Zoo Mom, do you still have that really big snake or can I pet your iguana (it's a beardie and we have to launch into that discussion, lol!). While they think a Burm is 'cool', I get a chance to talk about what it's really like to keep one and the legal aspects.
We're doing a two day show this weekend in a predominantly AA area. I'm not stereotyping, but I found that this neighborhood has a lot of misconceptions about herps and a lot of fear. The residents that do keep them don't always know how to care for them properly. I've been working with them for years at community events and summer camps. They all know me...Hey Miss Laura or Zoo Mom, do you still have that really big snake or can I pet your iguana (it's a beardie and we have to launch into that discussion, lol!). While they think a Burm is 'cool', I get a chance to talk about what it's really like to keep one and the legal aspects.
- Messages
- 96
Your right. Kids get a little messed up when they grow up. I bet most of the goverment officials that want to ban boas and pythons do it more out of fear and lack of proper education then anything else.
Education shows would be a great tool us herp lovers can use to our advantage. Then people wouldn't think that all people that keep reptiles are as creepy as the reptiles themselves.....seriously. At one expo I went to half of the people their had 5 tatoos, nose rings, and dyed/spiked hair!
Education shows would be a great tool us herp lovers can use to our advantage. Then people wouldn't think that all people that keep reptiles are as creepy as the reptiles themselves.....seriously. At one expo I went to half of the people their had 5 tatoos, nose rings, and dyed/spiked hair!
- Messages
- 416
I do a lot of educational presentations for grades K-5 and the youngest kids are always the most fearless. They have not developed enough socially to learn fear and loathing from adults or to act frightened to gain attention. I have to watch the 5-6 year olds very closely because they poke and prod and wanna see teeth! No fear there! And yes, it is ignorance on the part of government officials that spawn their fear. Through education MSH has helped prevent a couple of communities in Michigan from passing reptile restrictions.
Talk about stereotyping!! Yes, I will admit that some reptile keepers are creepy but so are some people that keep dogs, fish, or farm animals for that matter. I'm about as normal looking as they come, 51 years old, with some well hidden tats. I work as a pharmacy technician and my customers have no idea that I am a reptile keeper. :lol: My daughter, on the other hand, is pierced and well tattooed, at times has funky colored hair, keeps a herd of pitbulls, but is one of the most conscientious keepers that I know and her geckos are spectacular.
http://www.jsrhacs.com/
My herpkeeping friends include a professor of Biology at a major university, a veterinarian, a florist, a software engineer, a newspaper editor, founder of a boxer rescue, and many other well-respected people.
Education is important, there is no denying that. The trouble is when the truth lands on deaf ears, for whatever reason. A fine example are the bully dog breeds. Do a little research and I think a lot of people will be surprised by how much BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) is taking place and the locations across the country where it is illegal to keep bully breeds. The confusion over what dogs actually are bully breeds is even more astounding! Legislation is lumping many breeds together as bullies, including boxers, Am Staffs, English and Olde English Bulldogs, etc. The same thing could well happen with reptiles because of ignorance and an unwillingness to listen and learn.
- Messages
- 96
I hope you didn't think I was steriotyping reptile keepers. I was trying to say not creepy people keep reptiles too. Even if you look weird it doesn't mean your not a nice person. Take politicians. They always are dressed nicely, but some of them are complete scumbags.
- Messages
- 96
Your definitly right about the younger kids being the most fearless. They haven't learned what fear is yet. Take my 4 year old sister 2 years ago we went to a small zoo in Essex County called the turtle back zoo. They had just finished building their reptile/amphibian sectiion. A lady who worked their showed us the Black Dragon (recently discovered subspecies of Varanus Salvator) enclosure and told us they were the only zoo in the country with a sexed pair. They were hoping they would have babies and i never found out if they did or not.
My little sister went right up to the glass and stared, trying to find the animals inside. Suddenly, one of the monitors seemingly jumped out from no were and scared several people (I was a little startled also). It flicked her tounge out at my sister and she didn't even flinch. She stared at in in fascination and said "Whoa, look at that big lizard!"
My little sister went right up to the glass and stared, trying to find the animals inside. Suddenly, one of the monitors seemingly jumped out from no were and scared several people (I was a little startled also). It flicked her tounge out at my sister and she didn't even flinch. She stared at in in fascination and said "Whoa, look at that big lizard!"
- Messages
- 96
Sayy, Does your daugter rent any tables at any expos? I might be buying some Madagascan Giant Day Geckos from her!
- Messages
- 291
Government restrictions only reduce fredom. If a person has the means to raise the animal, let them. If a child wants to buy an animal, have the parents or guardian present. As for raising crocs and gators, I'm not a fan and I do have a friend who is raising a croc. I do like the animal, just not the personality. As for what we should and shouldn't buy, I think it takes common sence. But profit trumps smarts so we'll still se idiots buying animals they have no way to properly care for(e.g. Croc in a bathtub in an apt. = stupid) and we'll always have some greedy lil jerk out to make a buck. Education is the answer. Not less freedom.
- Messages
- 3,684
Laura, do you really think all of these baby gators are CBBs? And none are the results of raiding nests? I think not, as mater of fact, I know not. Everyone wants the babies, but they want to dump them when the get too big. And do not tell me they are being placed in zoos, it just is not the case. The zoos are full, and even wild gators that are caught in human development are killed if they are over 3ft long. They have nowhere to place them, if released in a different area they will return to where they were captured. So all of these wild gators are killed because they can't be placed, but you buy babies and trade them in when they get to big for you, I am sorry, but that suxs.
I say let them stay wild, they get too big to be pets, and people that sell them should not be supported, JMHO.
If this is not the case, then keep the one you have.
I say let them stay wild, they get too big to be pets, and people that sell them should not be supported, JMHO.
If this is not the case, then keep the one you have.
let me put in my 2 cents
IMO i think alot of reptiles shouldn't be pets, they get too big for the average person to house for 15+ years. Its not that all kids are irresponsible its this how are you going to house,feed, and take care of that little cute lizard when it grows up in a year or two. What are you going to due if you go to college, you cant bring them with you and even if you tried where is that huge cage going to go..
Another problem is most of these animals are WC and thats why there so cheap and people can buy them but didnt put any effort in looking how to take care of them and how big they get. Look at a few monitor species (savannah,black/white throat, water, mangrove,etc) these are the most common species WC and they come in by the 100,000 each year but how many adults due we see. The answer barely any :bs Why because people who are selling them try to make quick sells and say they make great pets and can live in a fish tank for a year or 2 or they have no clue on how to care for them and just make up whatever. Only people who wish to breed a certain species and follow though wish that can get WC animals because why should 1000s of animals be taken out of the wild to satisfy are wants not needs. The only law or regurgitation that should be set in place is something similar to AU's about you can only sell CBB animals if im not mistaken as this i believe would stop a lot of problems and people would actually start to breed what we have here.
For example we can look at arg b/w tegus, argus monitors on top of my head these were imported all the time, now they are beaning less and less imported because people started breeding them and the demand for WC decreased
thats some of my imput on this topic
Bryan
IMO i think alot of reptiles shouldn't be pets, they get too big for the average person to house for 15+ years. Its not that all kids are irresponsible its this how are you going to house,feed, and take care of that little cute lizard when it grows up in a year or two. What are you going to due if you go to college, you cant bring them with you and even if you tried where is that huge cage going to go..
Another problem is most of these animals are WC and thats why there so cheap and people can buy them but didnt put any effort in looking how to take care of them and how big they get. Look at a few monitor species (savannah,black/white throat, water, mangrove,etc) these are the most common species WC and they come in by the 100,000 each year but how many adults due we see. The answer barely any :bs Why because people who are selling them try to make quick sells and say they make great pets and can live in a fish tank for a year or 2 or they have no clue on how to care for them and just make up whatever. Only people who wish to breed a certain species and follow though wish that can get WC animals because why should 1000s of animals be taken out of the wild to satisfy are wants not needs. The only law or regurgitation that should be set in place is something similar to AU's about you can only sell CBB animals if im not mistaken as this i believe would stop a lot of problems and people would actually start to breed what we have here.
For example we can look at arg b/w tegus, argus monitors on top of my head these were imported all the time, now they are beaning less and less imported because people started breeding them and the demand for WC decreased
thats some of my imput on this topic
Bryan
- Messages
- 96
Just like the "Captive bred" Saltwater croc I saw for sale. I have also seen Nile crocodiles, all varieties of dwarf caiman, American Alligators, spectacled caimans, and various hybrids for sale.
- Messages
- 96
I hate people who catch herps from the wild and sell them.
- Messages
- 96
WHAT THE !?!?!?!?!?
SMUGGLING DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE REPTILE PET TRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry tux my friend, but you have much to learn about smugglers. Anyone who read the lizard king can tell you about it. You need to read it sometime. Surely yyou know how much people will pay for some reptiles. some forms of ball python are $10, 000+. Green tree pythons are over 1000 sometimes. Don't you think people would want to take advantage of this. Read this article:
SFWS PRESS RELEASE ON REPTILE SMUGGLING ARRESTS
Following is the text of the press release:
(begin text)
PROBE OF INTERNATIONAL REPTILE TRADE ENDS WITH KEY ARRESTS
A 5-year undercover U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service investigation that successfully infiltrated the illegal reptile trade ended yesterday with the arrest of an international wildlife dealer and the apprehension of two individuals in this country. The three face Federal charges related to the smuggling and sale of endangered and protected reptiles, including some of the rarest species on earth.
This final phase of "Operation Chameleon" began September 14 when Mexican authorities, who worked closely with the Service on this aspect of the case, arrested Keng Liang "Anson" Wong when he arrived at the airport in Mexico City. Wong, who operates Sungai Rusa Wildlife in Penang, Malaysia, is believed to be the kingpin of an international smuggling operation that plundered reptiles from southeast and central Asia, New Zealand, and Madagascar for sale in the United States and other markets.
Wong is wanted in this country on charges of conspiracy, smuggling, money laundering, and making false statements as well as for 14 felony violations of the Lacey Act, a Federal law that allows the United States to prosecute individuals who traffic in illegal or smuggled wildlife. He will be held in Mexico while the United States pursues formal extradition.
After Service special agents confirmed that Wong was in custody in Mexico, they arrested two U.S. citizens also implicated in the case and began executing a series of search warrants in Arizona and California. This sweep targeted individuals and businesses that had allegedly conspired to smuggle wildlife into the United States or that had knowingly bought or sold illegally imported animals.
The two men arrested, the owner of an Arizona wildlife import/export business and a San Francisco resident who allegedly served as a courier for Wong, face charges that include conspiracy, smuggling, and Lacey Act violations. A fourth individual, a Hong Kong resident who runs a wildlife import/export business in that city, is also wanted in the case.
"Reptile smuggling is a high-profit criminal enterprise, and the United States is its largest market," said Service Director Jamie Rappaport Clark. "Sacrificing the world's legally protected rare species to meet the demand for reptiles prized as exotic live collectibles will not be tolerated by this country or by our global conservation partners.
"We could not have completed this final phase of Operation Chameleon without tremendous help from the Mexican government. Assistance from the U.S. Customs Service and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was also crucial. International cooperation and the support of the U.S. Department of Justice have been vital throughout the investigation."
Trade of the animals smuggled and sold in this case is regulated under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), a global agreement that controls the importation and exportation of hundreds of animals and plants. Commercial traffic in many of these reptiles is prohibited. Some are also protected under the U.S. Endangered Species Act, which outlaws their importation into the United States for commercial purposes.
During Operation Chameleon, the Service uncovered a black market that specialized in some of the world's most unique reptiles, animals that, in many cases, occur only in very specific, geographically isolated habitats and that are already on the brink of extinction. The Komodo dragon, for example, is an endangered species native only to a relatively small area of Indonesia. The tuatara, a lizard-like reptile known as a "living fossil" because other species from its taxonomic order last thrived in the Triassic and Jurassic periods, lives only on 30 small islands in New Zealand. The ploughshare tortoise occurs only on the island of Madagascar, off the southeastern coast of Africa.
These species bring high prices on the black market. A Komodo dragon, tuatara, or ploughshare tortoise can each fetch about $30,000 in the illegal trade.
The species traded by Wong and others investigated by the Service also included such rarities as the Chinese alligator (which inhabits the lower course of the Yangtze River); Gray's monitor (a lizard native to two islands of the Philippines); the false gavial (a crocodilian whose range is restricted to parts of Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and southern Thailand along the Perak River); and two other reptiles found only on Madagascar (the radiated tortoise and the spider tortoise). Only the Gray's monitor and spider tortoise can be legally traded, but such commerce requires a CITES export permit from government authorities in the Philippines and Madagascar.
Prices in the illegal trade can be approximately $15,000 for a Chinese alligator, $8,000 for a Gray's monitor, and $5,000 for an adult radiated tortoise or a false gavial. Spider tortoises sell for about $2,000.
Wildlife smuggled in the case also included Burmese star tortoises, Indian star tortoises, Boelen's pythons, Timor pythons, green tree pythons, Fly River turtles, and Bengal monitor lizards.
"Stealing the world's natural treasures takes a toll that cannot be measured in dollars. It robs countries of their natural heritage, disrupts ecosystems, and shortchanges future generations," Clark said.
This week's arrests shut down one conduit for the illegal reptile trade between Asia and North America. Operation Chameleon's wider probe of that trade had already broken up a major smuggling ring that was funneling species from Madagascar and other countries to Germany and then on to markets in the United States and Canada. Work on that aspect of the case yielded charges against 18 people here and abroad.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the principal Federal agency responsible for conserving, protecting, and enhancing fish and wildlife and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people. The Service manages the 93-million-acre National Wildlife Refuge System comprised of more than 500 national wildlife refuges, thousands of small wetlands, and other special management areas. It also operates 66 national fish hatcheries and 78 ecological services field stations. The agency enforces Federal wildlife laws, administers the Endangered Species Act, manages migratory bird populations, restores nationally significant fisheries, conserves and restores wildlife habitat such as wetlands, and helps foreign governments with their conservation efforts. It also oversees the Federal Aid program that distributes hundreds of millions of dollars in excise taxes on fishing and hunting equipment to state wildlife agencies.
SMUGGLING DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE REPTILE PET TRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry tux my friend, but you have much to learn about smugglers. Anyone who read the lizard king can tell you about it. You need to read it sometime. Surely yyou know how much people will pay for some reptiles. some forms of ball python are $10, 000+. Green tree pythons are over 1000 sometimes. Don't you think people would want to take advantage of this. Read this article:
SFWS PRESS RELEASE ON REPTILE SMUGGLING ARRESTS
Following is the text of the press release:
(begin text)
PROBE OF INTERNATIONAL REPTILE TRADE ENDS WITH KEY ARRESTS
A 5-year undercover U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service investigation that successfully infiltrated the illegal reptile trade ended yesterday with the arrest of an international wildlife dealer and the apprehension of two individuals in this country. The three face Federal charges related to the smuggling and sale of endangered and protected reptiles, including some of the rarest species on earth.
This final phase of "Operation Chameleon" began September 14 when Mexican authorities, who worked closely with the Service on this aspect of the case, arrested Keng Liang "Anson" Wong when he arrived at the airport in Mexico City. Wong, who operates Sungai Rusa Wildlife in Penang, Malaysia, is believed to be the kingpin of an international smuggling operation that plundered reptiles from southeast and central Asia, New Zealand, and Madagascar for sale in the United States and other markets.
Wong is wanted in this country on charges of conspiracy, smuggling, money laundering, and making false statements as well as for 14 felony violations of the Lacey Act, a Federal law that allows the United States to prosecute individuals who traffic in illegal or smuggled wildlife. He will be held in Mexico while the United States pursues formal extradition.
After Service special agents confirmed that Wong was in custody in Mexico, they arrested two U.S. citizens also implicated in the case and began executing a series of search warrants in Arizona and California. This sweep targeted individuals and businesses that had allegedly conspired to smuggle wildlife into the United States or that had knowingly bought or sold illegally imported animals.
The two men arrested, the owner of an Arizona wildlife import/export business and a San Francisco resident who allegedly served as a courier for Wong, face charges that include conspiracy, smuggling, and Lacey Act violations. A fourth individual, a Hong Kong resident who runs a wildlife import/export business in that city, is also wanted in the case.
"Reptile smuggling is a high-profit criminal enterprise, and the United States is its largest market," said Service Director Jamie Rappaport Clark. "Sacrificing the world's legally protected rare species to meet the demand for reptiles prized as exotic live collectibles will not be tolerated by this country or by our global conservation partners.
"We could not have completed this final phase of Operation Chameleon without tremendous help from the Mexican government. Assistance from the U.S. Customs Service and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police was also crucial. International cooperation and the support of the U.S. Department of Justice have been vital throughout the investigation."
Trade of the animals smuggled and sold in this case is regulated under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), a global agreement that controls the importation and exportation of hundreds of animals and plants. Commercial traffic in many of these reptiles is prohibited. Some are also protected under the U.S. Endangered Species Act, which outlaws their importation into the United States for commercial purposes.
During Operation Chameleon, the Service uncovered a black market that specialized in some of the world's most unique reptiles, animals that, in many cases, occur only in very specific, geographically isolated habitats and that are already on the brink of extinction. The Komodo dragon, for example, is an endangered species native only to a relatively small area of Indonesia. The tuatara, a lizard-like reptile known as a "living fossil" because other species from its taxonomic order last thrived in the Triassic and Jurassic periods, lives only on 30 small islands in New Zealand. The ploughshare tortoise occurs only on the island of Madagascar, off the southeastern coast of Africa.
These species bring high prices on the black market. A Komodo dragon, tuatara, or ploughshare tortoise can each fetch about $30,000 in the illegal trade.
The species traded by Wong and others investigated by the Service also included such rarities as the Chinese alligator (which inhabits the lower course of the Yangtze River); Gray's monitor (a lizard native to two islands of the Philippines); the false gavial (a crocodilian whose range is restricted to parts of Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and southern Thailand along the Perak River); and two other reptiles found only on Madagascar (the radiated tortoise and the spider tortoise). Only the Gray's monitor and spider tortoise can be legally traded, but such commerce requires a CITES export permit from government authorities in the Philippines and Madagascar.
Prices in the illegal trade can be approximately $15,000 for a Chinese alligator, $8,000 for a Gray's monitor, and $5,000 for an adult radiated tortoise or a false gavial. Spider tortoises sell for about $2,000.
Wildlife smuggled in the case also included Burmese star tortoises, Indian star tortoises, Boelen's pythons, Timor pythons, green tree pythons, Fly River turtles, and Bengal monitor lizards.
"Stealing the world's natural treasures takes a toll that cannot be measured in dollars. It robs countries of their natural heritage, disrupts ecosystems, and shortchanges future generations," Clark said.
This week's arrests shut down one conduit for the illegal reptile trade between Asia and North America. Operation Chameleon's wider probe of that trade had already broken up a major smuggling ring that was funneling species from Madagascar and other countries to Germany and then on to markets in the United States and Canada. Work on that aspect of the case yielded charges against 18 people here and abroad.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is the principal Federal agency responsible for conserving, protecting, and enhancing fish and wildlife and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people. The Service manages the 93-million-acre National Wildlife Refuge System comprised of more than 500 national wildlife refuges, thousands of small wetlands, and other special management areas. It also operates 66 national fish hatcheries and 78 ecological services field stations. The agency enforces Federal wildlife laws, administers the Endangered Species Act, manages migratory bird populations, restores nationally significant fisheries, conserves and restores wildlife habitat such as wetlands, and helps foreign governments with their conservation efforts. It also oversees the Federal Aid program that distributes hundreds of millions of dollars in excise taxes on fishing and hunting equipment to state wildlife agencies.
- Messages
- 96
Sorry if i exploded a bit!
