Whole food diet

[Toby_H]

^lol Montana

^ Please explain, because I am not getting it...

Impaction is when the digestive system is blocked by a solid or semi-solid mass right. So if an animal has several smaller items then the chance of it blocking anything is less than one large item regardless of the amount of hair which can play a part but would that really matter that much? I mean the larger rat having more mass would be more to digest which intern would create a larger waste product which could block something or has a higher chance of doing so. Not necessarily disagreeing with you just trying to understand your logic.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on this subject, so I'm just discussing logically what I understand...


I have been lead to believe fur and feathers are very difficult to digest and is often not fully digested... Impaction can occur when large amounts of undigested fur/feathers creates hard entangled clumps sealed together with stool.

Regarding solid mass that does not digest (such as ingested mulch), I completely agree with your above description that larger pieces of matter will be much more likely to cause impaction.


I'll also mention I've never noticed much fur or feathers in any of my animals stool so i do not know how "difficult to digest" they are, but I very consistently read that it is.


I would not regularly feed my snake plates of 6~10 mice (with hair) the way I sometimes do hairless mice... but I do not hesitate to feed my Tegu any rats (with hair) that my snakes do not eat.


I also believe several other factors are involved that are less often discussed. Moisture levels for example. I believe a poorly hydrated Tegu is far more likely to get impacted than one that is properly flushed with fluids. Thus keeping humidity levels up, mulch moisted and a dish of clean water available will lessen risks of impaction.

I also believe a low temperatures are more likely to allow impaction. A Tegus digestive 'strength' is directly related to it's metabolism levels, and it's metabolism levels are directly related to it's body temperature which is controled by the temperature of it's environment.


On a related tangent... I discussed using hairless prey for snakes with a few breeders I know... Two of them suggested the fur or feathers of the prey item "sweeps" the walls of the intestines and feedign hairless prey consistently can allow build up in intestines. I have no clue how accurate this theory is, but it sounded like a rational possibility...


James - If we've taken this tangent too far fromt he original topic let me know and we can start a new thread to discuss thoughts on impaction (as the topic here is supposed to be pros/cons of a Whole Prey diet).

 

[rrcoolj]

Yea sorry James for stealing your thread but i was curious. Thanks for the explanation Toby_H. I agree in keeping proper parameters is key to preventing digestion problems with any type of reptiles(heat/humidty). Also make sure you have a good source of UVB. Honestly I believe impaction is the least of your problems James. My tegu has eaten bits of cypress mulch before and they just come out the other side. As long as you keep your parameters in check it should not be an issue.

 

[james.w]

I have no problem with where you guys have taken this topic.

I was more worried about impaction when I was keeping my gu on cypress as I would see him eating it here and there.

 

[herpgirl2510]

I usually go to NERD in N.The guy who runs the reptile dept said to give more smaller mice as opposed to a larger rat. He has hiad pair for 11 year and this is how he has fed them.

 

[rrcoolj]

I have no problem with where you guys have taken this topic.

I was more worried about impaction when I was keeping my gu on cypress as I would see him eating it here and there.

My tegu does that on occasion too. It's not a huge deal it usually just passes through her. Sometimes I will see her mouth cypress mulch then spit it out. This is usually in the morning before I feed her. Again I wouldn't worry too much about it. Feeding outside the enclosure helps.

 

[james.w]

I keep him on a sand/soil mix with a little bit of cypress throughout. I feed inside the enclosure with all of my herps.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

I switched to a Primarily Whole Prey Diet back in '07 as Dino got bigger along with his appetite. It hasn't been any other way since even with babies,.. I give them what ever they can handle whole, if not I cut it up. Last week I gave Korben his first whole rat pup for a bit of exercise and to make him work for his food before cutting it up. D I should post a video of the rib cage popping out and him eating it)

I feed 85-90 % whole with the rest being mixed meats and fruit,.. but even then the remaining percentage is more fruit than meat. Whole prey is a complete meal in itself so you really don't need to add anything to it other than fruit here and there.

It saves time, money (in some cases) and I don't have to supplement as much with vitamins or calcium.

As for Obesity,.. that's an owner issue not a tegu issue, since we control what, how much and how often they eat or exercise. It's good for them to have a thick tail base but not a fat tummy. When you start to see creases and rolls on their hips (around their legs) back and neck,.. then its time to reevaluate their feeding and exercise regime.

Some times people get caught up in bragging about the size and weight of their pets without considering how much is muscle (healthy) or fat (obesity).

 

[herpgirl2510]

That is good to know. I would much rather feed whole prey. The more turkey and fruit the looser larger annd more he poops.

 

[Teguwhisperer]

you could always try making a nicely seasoned mouse fillet just cut off the skin its more work but it may save them from impaction from the fur.

 

[herpgirl2510]

Oh gross nope can't do that.

 

[james.w]

Oh gross nope can't do that.

It's not gross to me, but you aren't gonna catch me skinning 6-7 mice at a time or plucking the feathers from 3-4 chicks. My tegu will just have to figure out how to get the fur/feathers out of him.

 

[Little Wise Owl]

My concern would be the lack of variety. Tupinambis merianae seem to eat almost anything they deem as food in the wild. Younger tegu's primarily eat invertebrate (I believe this takes up 90%) of their diet as well as a lot of rotting carcasses and a few fallen fruit. Adults feed more on fruit than juveniles do as well as whatever they can find.

Unless you're feeding a large abundance of really furry mice, I don't think impaction is a concern. Lack of variety is though.

 

[sphenodon]

There is no such thing as hairless mice silly !!

Toby has been applying Dry-loc in enclosed areas again ...

I know this is old but: http://www.fancymice.info/hairless.htm

When I was raising feeder mice (2007 or so), I got some that had hairless genes or something. I got mice who became hairless and others that were partially bald, lol! Funniest mice ever! It wasn't really cost efficient for me to keep doing it at that time (plus I was a poor grad student), so I stopped. Wish I still had them though!

 

[N8bub]

Great thread, it's good to trot out the zombies when there is interesting and relevant info!