Will Blue's disappear?

[DanRC30]

Well, I've been looking for a nice female blue for about 8 or 9 months, and I haven't found much for sale... a few babies and an albino here and there, but no decent adults or subadults for sale. The adults I found are pets in private collections and aren't for sale. I think this may eventually become a problem... my concern is that if people aren't breeding them and they're just being kept as pets, they may eventually disappear in captivity due to lack of reproduction.

Does anyone think that they might eventually vanish in captivity due to lack of breedings? I only know of a few people that are breeding or trying to breed them...

 

[DZLife]

I doubt that they will dissappear any time soon, but the REAL problem with the Blues is INBREEDING!
The initial number of blues that were imported to the US was a low number. In other words, there weren't enough tegus to develop a healthy existance of blues in captivity. Most blues that you will see (even the ones in private collections)
are fairly inbred.
They are gorgeous animals, but unfortunately, many/most aren't very healthy.

And for any Blue owners in here:
I am not dissing your animals, I am simply putting forth a "blanket statement." I am not saying that ALL blues are unhealthy, just that most have a TENDENCY to be unhealthy.


If you guys haven't noticed yet, I avoid offending people whever possible. I always try to cover all my bases.

meh, me and my pacifist self

 

[DanRC30]

Ok, well, my Blue is perfectly healthy and doing great. If it really is a problem, what can be done about it? Can anyone bring some WC in? Who can do this?

 

[DZLife]

I don't know much about the importation laws personally, but I think that it would be cool if in a few years, us tegu lovers of the tegutalk community could save up money for an expedition to Argentina, and set up a small-scale importation of some Blues.

 

[DanRC30]

Well, it would really be nice if someone with some knowledge in this arena would speak up with some info on how to do this. Obviously someone out there knows and could lend a helping hand... it's all a question if they "want to" help...

 

[DZLife]

I have imported an animal from another country before, but I won't lie....I didn't do it legally. That was a long time ago, though.

 

[DanRC30]

Yea, I'm not sure that's the best thing to do nowadays... lol!

Who brought in the lot of blues in the beginning?

 

[PuffDragon]

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=409&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0">http://www.tegutalk.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0</a><!-- m -->

 

[DaveDragon]

I doubt that they will dissappear any time soon, but the REAL problem with the Blues is INBREEDING!
The initial number of blues that were imported to the US was a low number. In other words, there weren't enough tegus to develop a healthy existance of blues in captivity. Most blues that you will see (even the ones in private collections)
are fairly inbred.
They are gorgeous animals, but unfortunately, many/most aren't very healthy.

It is known that the original group was a clutch of 6, imported about 8 years ago. Since they would have to be 3 years old to breed, the first captive generation would have to be 5 years old. Does anyone know of a 5 year old Blue Tegu??? Any older than 5 would have to be one of the original 6. Our Female Blue is said to be 3 to 4 years old and our male is 3 years old. Therefore they are more than likely the offspring of the original 6 (or a cross), only 1 generation inbred. Any Blue Tegu 2 years or younger has a chance of being a second generation inbred.

So, any Blue Tegu 3 years or older are more than likely the offspring of the original 6 (or a cross), and aren't heavily inbred. It looks like there haven't been many Blue's born lately. It seems only 1 clutch of Blues were born last year, some albino, some 66% het for albino. There must have been a few normals in there too.

I think only Ron St. Pierre knows were the original 6 went. And maybe how many babies have come from the original 6 (I'm reaching here!).

I have to agree that the Blue's are probably a variation of the regular Argentine Black & White, as it's been shown there are many variation of Tegu's in the wild not known in the pet trade.

It's been said that Blue Tegu's are hard to breed. More than likely that is because they were treated as pets and not breeding animals and didn't hibernate. Some say they don't need to hibernate. Since there aren't many (any??) breeders breeding Blue Tegu's not much is know about the breeding specifics.

Unless additional Blue Tegu stock is imported, inbreeding in inevitable. Cross breeding and breeding the ones that look like Blue's will just reunite the original Blue Tegu genes (correct?). So, I guess the Blue Tegu's are destined to become horribly inbred or disappear.

Who will be the first to breed a Blue with one of Bobby's Extremes??? That will be a sight to behold!!!!

 

[MMRR - jif]

I think your calculations are way off. Blue Tegus have been around since the mid 1990's I believe. Ron St. Pierre produced his first albinos from the original blues in 1999. I've kept blues myself on and off since 1999. We hatched a clutch of blues(mixed het and albino) in 2003, which I believe is also the year that the first blue/red crosses showed up. The original blues imported from Columbia would now be over 10 years old, not 5.

This is a photo of our female with one of the babies that we hatched. If you go to the photo gallery you can see that the photo was uploaded in 2003. Mom was 3 years old when she laid her clutch so she was probably 2nd or 3rd generation captive bred and would now be 8 years old.

 

[ApriliaRufo]

I'm officially bored with this topic. Although I think blues are inbred to some extent, we aren't talking about the backwoods dads daughters granddaughters, etc. They are beautiful and no one should have to expect a ham shot everytime it's brought up. WE ALL KNOW THEY'RE SOMEWHAT INBRED! So Is your ball python so get over it. Albinism is the problem with the poor blues being manipulated over it. A pied ball python sold online has a chance of being inbred. Dad is het or pied and hits ma, then he hits the female kids.

 

[jose2187]

i am not a fan of the blue's but i have seen at least 3, 2 adults one sub adult for sale at 2 diff locations, 2 were at the lll store in san diego california, they were not available online but i did see them when i went to ,buy supplies and I saw one in chula vista ca. too

 

[shiftylarry]

If we're going to talk inbreeding, why not bring up the endless number of Australian species that are being inbred due to a ban of exportation on Australian reptiles? If everybody in this forum knows what they are, they're obviously not going to die out. There is a demand, and someone is going to breed them. Even the administrator of this site breeds them, so why are we even discussing this?

 

[VARNYARD]

Chris I do not breed the Blues, and I have no desire at this point to do so.

As for how long they have been in the US, I would say it is real close to nine years.

 

[DaveDragon]

As for how long they have been in the US, I would say it is real close to nine years.

My source.

It's not worth talking about this anymore.

 

[shiftylarry]

My bad Bobby I got confused. Someone was talking to you on another post about breeding blues to your extremes and I thought you mentioned breeding them.

Sorry

-Chris

 

[VARNYARD]

My bad Bobby I got confused. Someone was talking to you on another post about breeding blues to your extremes and I thought you mentioned breeding them.

Sorry

-Chris

No problem bro, I just did not want to get anyone confused on me breeding them.

 

[Toby_H]

I breed fishÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ and right now my project is breeding Blue Jack DempseysÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦

Jack Dempsey is a species of fishÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ Arg B/W Tegus are a species of lizardsÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦

Blue Dempseys are a version of (same species as) the standard Jack DempseyÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ Arg Blue Tegus are a version of (same speceis as) the standard B/W TegusÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦

Blue Dempseys were discovered by a single wild caught pair producing a small percentage of themÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ They have never been seen in the wild and never been spawned by any other wild caught pairÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ So in the fish hobby we met with the same destructive influences of inbreedingÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦

For 3 years a group has been working together to diversify our bloodlines and selective breed for health qualities (such as strength, natural body shape, natural fin shape) not fancy qualities (such as long fins, stumpy body shape). We have taken a fish which was well known to be beautiful, weak and infertileÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ to the bold beautiful spawning fish you saw in my introduction. We have made more progress in just a few years than most thought we would ever makeÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ and weÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¾Ã?â??Ã?¢re still working at itÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦

I fully understand there are numerous differences between genetics of Tegus and genetics of fish. I do know that color passing is fairly consistent in many species but degrees, effects and subtle differences will vary to an unknown degreeÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ But for anyone willing to put a lot of time and space into a project to produce a very few impressive Blues as well as some less impressive B/WsÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦ then I have a breeding program for yaÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?ââ?¬Å¡Ã?â??Ã?¦

IÃ?Æ?Ã?â??Ã?â??Ã?¢Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¡Ã?â??Ã?¬Ã?Æ?Ã?¢Ã?¢ââ??¬Ã?¾Ã?â??Ã?¢ll stick to breeding fish and just keeping Tegus