Is eco earth a good substrate

[TegusRawsome80]

How do you know what happened to all his monitors? Go outside and take the temperature off of a piece of flat rock in your yard or something when the air temp is 105. The surface temp will likely exceed 130-140. I am talking about surface temps. Maybe Mark meant air temperature I don't know but what is important for monitor basking spots is surface temp of the object they are basking on.

 

[TeguBuzz]

Can you post pics or something of the sort from the book where he says it is absurd to keep them at 130? Explain to me why it is that keepers who keep there savs in proper enclosure with high temps and correct humidity have the healthiest and most thriving tegus?

Mark was indeed knowledgeable but his info is out of date. That is fact and everyone has now changed their care standards to the up to date needs. I really don't know how else to put it. Also, I don't see how a monitor would survive in the care you've described in a fish tank with the temps and humidity you listed.

 

[batmanjosh5000]

How do you know what happened to all his monitors? Go outside and take the temperature off of a piece of flat rock in your yard or something when the air temp is 105. The surface temp will likely exceed 130-140. I am talking about surface temps. Maybe Mark meant air temperature I don't know but what is important for monitor basking spots is surface temp of the object they are basking on.

Well i dont know for sure what happend, im trying to show that logically u can figure it out. If u beleive hes not evil or an idiot, u would absolutely beleive most of them lived full lives or he would be nice enough ans smart enough not to post a book showing how to kill monitors. And im assuming from the way u talk about him u dont think hes a lier, because he said in his book right infront of my face right now that one of his savs lived 14.5 years when he was talking about him. And as far as ur basking spot theory, that might be true, but i would think he was talking about surface temps because he didnt indicated otherwise, but he says abmient temps of 95 is good

 

[TegusRawsome80]

Did he get into anything about multi bulb basking spots?

 

[tegus4life]

There definitely have been changes since he wrote the book, but I also think that if your sav died from supposedly perfectly replicating his care you obviously weren't doing something right... I suggest listening to the people and spending time making changes instead of spending all of your time arguing your point and trying to get people to think that you're right.

 

[Ripkabird98]

He was brilliant keeper... in HIS time. I respect him, and I know he was the go to guy for Savs when he wrote that book. Things have changed, we have learned more. I'm not saying he was lying, he was just going off the info at the time.

 

[batmanjosh5000]

Can you post pics or something of the sort from the book where he says it is absurd to keep them at 130? Explain to me why it is that keepers who keep there savs in proper enclosure with high temps and correct humidity have the healthiest and most thriving tegus?

Mark was indeed knowledgeable but his info is out of date. That is fact and everyone has now changed their care standards to the up to date needs. I really don't know how else to put it. Also, I don't see how a monitor would survive in the care you've described in a fish tank with the temps and humidity you listed.

i Dont have a smart phone to get a pic but i can tell u the exact pages, Page 48 "Glass terraria are good for smaller younger monitor lizzards.", the bottom of page 53 talks about temps "the author has read online forums in ehich people advice keeping monitor lizzards at temeratures ranging from 130-150F. At 107f, animal tissue rapidly dehydrates. at 129f proteins begin to breakdown...... So why do some people keep their reptiles at such high temperatures? Because somebody told them to!" Humidity page 55 "comfortable humidity levels for the african monitor lizzard can be low to moderate; 20-50 percent is fine" If u dont beleive me look it up. And what do u mean u cant see how it could survive in these conditions? how do u know anything? have u performed a controlled experiment on both ways of care including a hypothesis, control group and expeimental group? i highly doubt it, we dont know anything we can just look at the ones who survived and learn from that

 

[TegusRawsome80]

No I've observed whose Savannahs died and whose survived. Those kept like yours tend to die. Those kept like Savannahmonitor.co's owners tend to survive. The end.

 

[laurarfl]

Any reptile info published more than 5yrs ago is likely outdated (depending on the topic). Some much has changed so fast.

 

[Deac77]

I'd like to point out I'm in Texas and I've tested them temp of the rocks where collard lizards and whiptails will bask from WHERE I SEE THEM BASK to get a safe idea for my beardie the rocks are normally (at the time I see them basking) right at 120-130* here in Texas the air above them is usually in the 105-115 area I've done this countless times. Now I work with a lot of nurses from Africa (happens alot in a hospital lol) who claim there seen savs wild while growing up when it was less industrial and I've also asked about the climate there on unrelated topics because they don't care for reptiles like me haha and the high temp is usually the same as here where I live but more humid for being closer to the coast to me that would suggest I higher humidity than the 30% here and a basking surface temp of 120-130 but that's just my 2 cents

 

[frost]

why would a sav get dehydrated from eco earth? not trying to start anything just curious.

 

[SnakeCharmr728]

Eco earth does not hold permanent burrows, even when mixed with sand. The highest humidity within a cage is deep inside the burrows constructed by varanids. Heres a tid bit of info on how monitors hydrate themselves and why it is so desperately important that they have a constant humidity written by a very good friend of mine as well as a long-term varanid keeper, Chad Lane.

"A bit on dehydration and hydration of Varanids. Basking behavior and acclimating newly-acquired monitors have slopped over into comments on cage humidity, and it is not uncommon to hear of people soaking their animals to “rehydrate” them. It might be worth considering this as a separate issue, as there seem to be some misconceptions afoot.

Monitors can only acquire water by mouth (from food or by drinking). Unless they drink, soaking does not rehydrate them, as their skins are effectively impermeable to water. Notice that we humans, with a much thinner skin keratin layer, do not bloat from taking a bath. Raising the ambient humidity can reduce the rate of dehydration, but it cannot reverse it.

Monitors lose body water in feces (not much), by evaporation from their eyes (quite a bit), and by exhaling. Air inhaled by a monitor is almost always cooler than the animal’s body temperature. Even if that inhaled air is saturated (100% rh), the temperature increase will reduce the rh of the air in the lungs, and thus body water will be extracted to bring the lungful of air to saturation at the new temperature. When that air is exhaled, the body water goes with it, either all the way out of the body or at least as far as the nasal chamber. Some desert-adapted monitors (like V. griseus) have re-curved nasal passages that may help condense and trap exhaled water vapor, but this is absent in species from the wet tropics, and is never as fancy as the water traps in the noses of many desert mammals.

A monitor basking in a cage is inhaling hot, locally dry air, and losing body water each time it exhales. A monitor resting in a cooler part of the cage, especially in a mostly-enclosed burrow or box or hollow, is inhaling nearly saturated air that is at the same temperature as its body and thus it is not dehydrating as quickly. It is pretty likely that monitors are aware of differences in relative humidity at various potential hiding places within a cage.

Once they've eaten, monitors like nearly all reptiles will bask as long as they can to speed up digestion. While they're doing that (and not drinking), they are dehydrating. At the same time the proteins in their food are being digested, and the nitrogenous waste is being converted from ammonia at the cellular level to urea in the bloodstream to uric acid in the kidneys or cloaca. Urea is made of two ammonia molecules, and uric acid is made of two urea molecules, so at each step the concentration of the solution falls by half, and the available water is reabsorbed; above a certain concentration uric acid begins to crystallize out of solution, allowing recovery of almost all the metabolic water. This is why lizard (and bird) 'pee' is white and semisolid. The problem is that uric acid crystals are not easily dissolved once they form, and they plug up the works.

Dehydration is the number one single killer of all Varanids in Captivity."

 

[laurarfl]

And it is a leading cause of chronic kidney disease in other reptiles as well.

 

[frost]

thanks=] that was the info i was looking for, haha i thought i was gonna get a because i said so answer.

 

[BatGirl1]

Wow that was very enlightening. thank you!

Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using Tapatalk 2

 

[HeatherN]

what a lovely post! thank you! i am much more confident in biological justifications for the care requirements of animals. a lot easier to trust compared to "why, because thats how it is and what other people say!"

 

[batmanjosh5000]

Eco earth does not hold permanent burrows, even when mixed with sand. The highest humidity within a cage is deep inside the burrows constructed by varanids. Heres a tid bit of info on how monitors hydrate themselves and why it is so desperately important that they have a constant humidity written by a very good friend of mine as well as a long-term varanid keeper, Chad Lane.

"A bit on dehydration and hydration of Varanids. Basking behavior and acclimating newly-acquired monitors have slopped over into comments on cage humidity, and it is not uncommon to hear of people soaking their animals to “rehydrate” them. It might be worth considering this as a separate issue, as there seem to be some misconceptions afoot.

Monitors can only acquire water by mouth (from food or by drinking). Unless they drink, soaking does not rehydrate them, as their skins are effectively impermeable to water. Notice that we humans, with a much thinner skin keratin layer, do not bloat from taking a bath. Raising the ambient humidity can reduce the rate of dehydration, but it cannot reverse it.

Monitors lose body water in feces (not much), by evaporation from their eyes (quite a bit), and by exhaling. Air inhaled by a monitor is almost always cooler than the animal’s body temperature. Even if that inhaled air is saturated (100% rh), the temperature increase will reduce the rh of the air in the lungs, and thus body water will be extracted to bring the lungful of air to saturation at the new temperature. When that air is exhaled, the body water goes with it, either all the way out of the body or at least as far as the nasal chamber. Some desert-adapted monitors (like V. griseus) have re-curved nasal passages that may help condense and trap exhaled water vapor, but this is absent in species from the wet tropics, and is never as fancy as the water traps in the noses of many desert mammals.

A monitor basking in a cage is inhaling hot, locally dry air, and losing body water each time it exhales. A monitor resting in a cooler part of the cage, especially in a mostly-enclosed burrow or box or hollow, is inhaling nearly saturated air that is at the same temperature as its body and thus it is not dehydrating as quickly. It is pretty likely that monitors are aware of differences in relative humidity at various potential hiding places within a cage.

Once they've eaten, monitors like nearly all reptiles will bask as long as they can to speed up digestion. While they're doing that (and not drinking), they are dehydrating. At the same time the proteins in their food are being digested, and the nitrogenous waste is being converted from ammonia at the cellular level to urea in the bloodstream to uric acid in the kidneys or cloaca. Urea is made of two ammonia molecules, and uric acid is made of two urea molecules, so at each step the concentration of the solution falls by half, and the available water is reabsorbed; above a certain concentration uric acid begins to crystallize out of solution, allowing recovery of almost all the metabolic water. This is why lizard (and bird) 'pee' is white and semisolid. The problem is that uric acid crystals are not easily dissolved once they form, and they plug up the works.

Dehydration is the number one single killer of all Varanids in Captivity."

Thanks thos is informative! ya i think im gonna stay away from the eco eath and do a soil and sand mix, and if ur right about that they know wher humidity is then ill have have hides with moss inside since thers different opinions on humidity he'll have optins and decide wher he wants to go