Repashy Savory Stew?

[Dubya]

Do you know they have that as a product? lol!

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e9aa/

Rofl! I am getting those to serve to my friends! HAHAHAHA!!!

 

[Allen Repashy]

*All or most of the food products are more than likely irradiated.
Irradiation breaks down molecules, enzymes and vitamins. It can actually destroy up to 80% some vitamins. It also introduces free radicals and will actually convert certain components of said food into carcinogenic toxins such as benzene and formaldehyde of the top of my head. this process is called unique radiolytic products or URPs.

Actually, there is not a single irradiated product in my formula.

*so next we pasteurize our stew bits
This of course kills nasty bacteria... and many healthy components.
Most water soluble vitamins are destroyed in temperatures exceeding 75F.

I call BS on this.
Heat does effect vitamins, as well as oxidation and moisture. It isn't difficult to formulate and test a product to provide accurate levels in a finished product. The water soluble vitamins I use are designed for extrusion use (high temperature steam processing) and are tested before and after various temps. Each vitamin is tested and graphed for temperature and humidity degradation an. Simple calculations based on your processing will give you inclusion levels in pre processed food that will yield what you are looking for after heating. Lab tests on finished products will verify vitamin levels and any adjustments can be made.

That being said, The vitamins in my formula are the last thing that is added. All ingredient drying is done prior to vitamins being added. I adjust the vitamin levels in the dry powder so that after a full two minute boil, the levels in the finished gel are as claimed or higher.

*now we dehydrate our pathogen and (almost) nutrient free stew items
Im am not aware of any professional or academic studies on the subject of dehydration, so I wont comment much here - but research indicate there is some vitamin loss that occurs during this process as well, albeit not as extensive as these other processes.

As stated previously, the dehydration is don prior to vitamin addition, and any degradation is compensated for based on manufacturer stability charts and can be verified by finished product analysis.

So now we have stew! But somethings missing..
Water! so we throw some water in that stuff and do one of two things:
*Microwave - Im not even touching this one... Or
*Boil - The effects of boiling are similar to that of pasteurization with the exception of pasteurization being a timed and minimized process. Boiling food is bad enough, but increased as most people tend to exceed the necessary time when employing this cooking technique. Nutrient loss is again in the 30-100% range. (of whats left)

The gel diets only require 170 degrees for about 30 seconds in order to set, and again, compensating for any degradation is not difficult at all. We, as humans, deal with degraded foods our whole life. We eat nearly all our animal products as cooked (sushi is one exception) Many of our veggies are cooked...... sure fresh everything is better, but not often realistic for humans, reptiles, dogs, cats..... whatever. Most people probably feed cooked meat to their Tegus rather than raw. The benefits of raw foods can quickly be outweighed by the huge risk of bacterial infection due to quick spoilage..... there are arguments for both sides. To say that you can't have a prepared product that fulfills nutritional requirements is silly.

There will always be people who argue that dog kibble is not complete compared to a RAW diet..... Providing a completely balanced diet using raw ingredients is very difficult...... but can it be done.... of course..... is it better than kibble...... if done right, probably so....... does this make kibble a "non food" as you like to say..... absolutely not!. There is more than one way to provide proper nutrition and your narrow minded opinion may suit you just fine.... but it is not the answer for everyone.

And at last we have repashy savory stew!
Who wants some? hopefully not your Tegus and Crested Geckos!
Although they will happily eat this by the time this hits their scaley little gullets this stuff is practically devoid of nutrition.And at this point is debatable as whether it is actually considered food, since food by definition contains nutrients and sustains life.

I am not sure what makes you such a hater of my products, and why you have chosen to bash them in a public forum. I take my formulas and reputation very seriously and have spent the last 15 years of my life completely obsessed with making Reptile products that work and are nutritionally sound. I consider your comments slander.

If anyone disagrees with any of the above information;
1. I expect as much
2. I could care less

That pretty much confirms you are a living definition of the word TROLL.

 

[laurarfl]

Allen, thank you for coming to the forum to explain your product further. Please do not consider any remarks slanderous, but an opportunity for open discussion. Many of us are aware of the reputation you have established and the research you have invested into geckos and other reptiles.

 

[Thelegendofcharlie]

It is not my intent to "bash" you or "bash" your company.
And you accuse me of slander? By definition that signifies I said something untrue and although you may find my opinions objectionable, nothing I presented as fact is anything else.
In fact you seem to support my statements, as in your defense all you have said is;
1. you dont irradiate your food. First of all I said this was probable and not definite. ANd frankly if you are not producing all of your own vegetation this could very well be the case even if it is unbeknownst to you but I will not speculate on this matter.
2. you state your end product is nutritious because you add vitamins/minerals after nutritional breakdown.
I regret to inform you there is already a popular product on the market that does just this.
Its called vitimins.
I take it by this statement:
'There will always be people who argue that dog kibble is not complete compared to a RAW diet..... Providing a completely balanced diet using raw ingredients is very difficult...... but can it be done.... of course..... is it better than kibble...... if done right, probably so....... does this make kibble a "non food" as you like to say..... absolutely not!. There is more than one way to provide proper nutrition and your narrow minded opinion may suit you just fine.... but it is not the answer for everyone."

You experience distaste I advocate a raw/natural diet?
So be it. You are entitled to that opinion
.
"is it better than kibble...... if done right, probably so."
I agree as well.

"does this make kibble a "non food" as you like to say..... absolutely not!"
Im afraid it does if we go by definition but lets not quibble over semantics.


"There is more than one way to provide proper nutrition and your narrow minded opinion may suit you just fine.... but it is not the answer for everyone."

I completely agree and said so myself. BUt this discussion was about proper nutrition and not minimal or adequate nutrition.

Finally, I am perplexed as to your reasonings and motivations to call me a "troll"- but I assure you I am a real person.
Thats just being absurd, and name calling is juvenile.

 

[Allen Repashy]

Thanks for the welcome Laura, and thanks for the reply Charlie.

As far as the Troll statement. I based it on this:

If anyone disagrees with any of the above information;
1. I expect as much
2. I could care less

Being a troll has nothing to do with being a real person. I rarely reference Wikipedia, but their definition is pretty good.

your quoted statement clearly projects an attitude that you think you know everything, and that the opinions of others do not make a difference, or could possibly have anything to contribute to the discussion.

On the point of you only telling "Truths" ..... I welcome you to open a discussion on this statement and back it up with pier reviewed publications.

Most water soluble vitamins are destroyed in temperatures exceeding 75F.

On the subject of irradiation. We do not irradiate our products, nor are ANY of the ingredients we source irradiated. Every ingredient we source comes with a Certificate of Origin that must list any irradiated product. In fact, we have rejected several sources for our ingredients for this very reason. For example, imported turmeric from some sources is irradiated, so we have to be careful with sourcing on that particular herbal ingredient. We have also rejected ingredients such as dandelion from some sources because of slightly elevated heavy metals.

You misread me if you interpreted me saying that there was something wrong with RAW diets...... and I had no idea you even had posted a a position on this subject. It is an example...... and a good one, because there is much more to it than just feeding raw ingredients as I am sure you know. For those others reading this, what I mean, is that just raw meat and bones, is not a balanced diet...... you need a balance of whole ingredients.... internal organs. I actually feed my Mastiff's whole frozen rabbit!

Which brings up another topic..... because all those bad things you say about heat, can equally be caused by freezing.... Freezing something for days, weeks, months or more, can easily degrade some nutrients much more than a minute or two of boiling. Sourcing never frozen raw food, and feeding it without freezing it, is not what I call an easy task LOL. The risk of bacterial infections would be huge.

I completely agree and said so myself. BUt this discussion was about proper nutrition and not minimal or adequate nutrition.

I am not talking about adequate nutrition either. I have no problems with a good debate, and actually enjoy it..... but your post was full of disrespect, which is something I have worked a long time for in this Hobby. You are a young man, and it would be nice if you did a little digging into someone and their products before you make comments like you did. You probably didn't even take the time to look at my list of ingredients before you jumped on my product.

People like you, come and go....I have been doing this a long time..... in fact, long enough to have captive bred geckos (from 1986) that I produced and raised on my products...... that are still alive, and older than you. :shy: LOL

If we can get past this, and "agree to disagree" then maybe we can turn this into a productive conversation.....?

Cheers, Allen

 

[Murkve]

Allen,

Right or wrong, all debate aside, I find it commendable the level to which you're willing to personally defend your products. If more businesses had your sense of personal accountability, right down to the grassroots level, the world would be a better place.

Thank you for providing your "primary source" input to this discussion.

 

[Allen Repashy]

Allen,

Right or wrong, all debate aside, I find it commendable the level to which you're willing to personally defend your products. If more businesses had your sense of personal accountability, right down to the grassroots level, the world would be a better place.

Thank you for providing your "primary source" input to this discussion.

Thanks Murkye,

Studying nutrition has become more of a passion for me in the last decade than actually working with animals. Sometimes emotions get the best of me, and I don't cool down enough before replying (kind of like this thread :dodgy. I tend to take everything personally, which I realize is not realistic...... but that's how important it is to me.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and forum posters aren't used to being challenged by a manufacturer for commenting on a product because most of them just ignore this stuff..... I might be better off doing the same, but I just can't seem to help myself.

Actually, forums like this are responsible for the development of many of my products. I often work with online communities to help develop a product.... I send out samples..... and use community feedback to help fine tune products. I have also developed completely new formulas based on the requests of community members. My whole line of fish gel formulas came about from a feedback thread on the Dendro Boards that crossed over to some fish people...... and to a development thread on the planted tank forums.... which evolved into half a dozen fish formulas.

I doubt "Charlie" will take my replies as personally as I did his original post, and I acknowledge that I probably took his post too personally.....but I hope he at least thinks twice in the future about what he says about a product, and remembers that you never know who might be listening. ( a fanatic like me lol)

Allen

 

[Thelegendofcharlie]

I dont think of myself as a know it all Mr. Repashy. I did not mean to represent myself as such.
I in fact learn every day of my life and am unfulfilled to do otherwise.
You in fact taught me something today. When you called me a troll I thought you meant the mythological creature.
You can perhaps understand my confusion?
I read the wiki link and see that troll is a slang word someone that basically acts or posts inappropriately online.
I do not feel I was acting as a troll because what I said was in context to the discussion, but Im still learning what it means to be a troll I guess.
My comment
"If anyone disagrees with any of the above information;
1. I expect as much
2. I could care less"
only signified I dont feel the need to defend everything I say or write.
I do applaud you on not using irradiated products.
And I do see you take measures to lift the quality of your product beyond that of your competitors.
You can probably imagine from the scope of my text, I am of course aware of the degeneration that occurs from freezing, but did not felt it merited relevance for inclusion in my post (although I thought about it) I didnt think that would be impartial of me to mention as I was not sure if your company practiced this or not.
I do (in my opinion) have an appropriately balanced view on nutrition. I do not practice a raw diet and do not advocate it. Although care should be taken to minimize processed nonfood products we consume, I am aware of the dangers of a (wholly) raw diet and realize a balance must be struck. It is not so simple as everything should be eaten raw or everything need be cooked, and I do concede the point that heating outweighs the risk of pathogenic contamination. I am glad to hear you do this in a proper manner to your product.
You and someone else mentioned something to the affect of optimal diets not being appropriate or suitable for everyone or their pets.
(please forgive me if Im not expressing that as intended)
I understand that. I truly do.
All I meant to convey is that ANY processed product is pale in comparison to a proper and natural diet.
If you feel I was too harsh, I understand that.
But I stand by what I said.
For whatever its worth I DO feel your product is probably the best to choose from if you go that route.
All Im saying is lets not delude ourselves and pretend its optimal or healthy.
Thats just silly.
Lastly whatever you felt was disrespectful wasnt my intention. I do apologize if you feel disrespected on a personal level.
While I may disagree with you on matters of nutrition, I did not and do not mean to convey any disrespect to you personally.
That is all I have to say on this I think.
From here I think we must agree to disagree...

 

[Diablo]

I wish there was just an internet handshake button so this would be a lot easier.

 

[laurarfl]

I hear ya!

Ok, then...let's look at this as some market research for Repashy.

I like nutrition and my college studies were physiology based. Pet food is more of a hobby and not a research event as it is for Allen. Hears my take:

There are multi-levels of pet food that cater to owner's preferences according to budget, needs, and knowledge.

The lowest levels of food I consider barely adequate. We can eat hot dogs and hamburgers all of our lives, but it will catch up to us eventually. In pet foods, this relates to the cheapest store brand cat/dog food. Sadly, I think it also includes that canned tegu/monitor diet...blech. I'm not sure if I would classify baby food for cresties at this level or a bit higher.

As people become more interested in nutrition for their pets and willing to spend more money, more products become available. Here you have the higher line brands such as Iams, Eukanuba, etc. Then you have the really high end brands found in stores like Blue Buffalo, Wellness, Natural Balance. These brands have invested a lot of money in their ingredients, and research the needs of animals.

Then there are the elite brands. Many of these aren't found in pet stores, but are ordered on-line, in select vet offices, pet pantries, etc. These are Wysong (cold processed raw kibble), Evagers 100% meat canned, Evo, etc. They are expensive, no fillers, lots of research, top quality ingredients. This is where Repashy diets live. I know my local PetSmart quit carry GCD and never had Calcium Plus. It is expensive and doesn't sell fast enough. So you have to order it on-line or go to a specialty pet shop. I even use the Calcium Plus on other reptiles. It has natural plant base vitamin supply and I like that.

So, is it a perfect dietary world? No. Is a natural, wild diet better? Yes, I think it is. But I do think Repashy is a good substitute for a captive animal. I think it is worlds better than ground turkey only. I didn't look at the price, so I'm not sure how tegu owners will feel about fronting that.

 

[Allen Repashy]

I am glad that this thread has gone from a personal battle, to the sharing of some great information that can help everyone learn about foods. I respect Charlie for backing off a bit, and apologize if I came in guns blazing to defend myself. There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

When it comes down to it, anything short of eating something that is fresh killed, and still warm, or veggies pulled straight from the ground and eaten fresh, is a nutritional compromise. It is all about the price of "convenience", and the potential health risks of eating unprocessed foods. Modern humans are doing ok on our current diets, but it is obvious that there are a LOT of people out there who are unhealthy because of all the crap they eat. There are also people out there eating "right" and living a hundred years on cooked and "processed" diets.

I personally try to follow the "Paleolithic Diet" and think that grains and carbs are evil things.

Cheers, Allen

 

[Murkve]

I personally try to follow the "Paleolithic Diet" and think that grains and carbs are evil things.

Ha! Myself as well! That's why I feel such a connection with Tegus, they eat the same things I eat - meat, veggies, and fruits!

 

[Thelegendofcharlie]

What do you know? Me too!

 

[Dana C]

The following is a discussion on Face Book that I thought I would post in this thread as well as one other. For those of you who aren't familiar with Ty Park, he is a highly respected herper that successfully breeds some of the rarest lizards in the world.

Ron St Pierre Iirc the bulk of the vegetable matter was palm seeds. Back when we bred tegus our most successful diet was 33% mice, 33% Superworms and 33% soft fruit. I dabbled over the years in other combos (including SDZ diet, Cat Foods, 100% rodents, etc) and the only other diet that did have good results was the 100% rodent diet. Our 33% diet was loosely based off this paper.
4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
Ty Park I am currently feeding 40% Mazuri Croc. Diet, 40% Mazuri Omnivore Diet with 20% Other "left over food"...such as food left over from feeding other animals such as mice (from feeding snakes), fruits (from feeding iguanas) and Chinese and other left over restaurant food (from feeding me). I had great success with breeding this year using this diet mix. With Omnivore diet being both carnivorous and herbivorous, I would guess the mix of meat to vegetable would be about 60/40. With so many mouth to feed, this has been the best formulated diet that I have come up with so far. I will stay with this diet if verified by long term result but I am always willing to add or subtract items if I see the need. I have also found that the best time to switch from diet to diet is after the hibernation, when they are hungry and their memory of their favorite diet is at the weakest.
45 minutes ago · Like
Ron St Pierre Yeah I firmly believe that tegus can be successfully raised on quite an array of combos and have it work just fine. They are not true predators and instead generalist/scavengers and are adapted quite well for that niche. I'm quite sure they exploit whatever is available at a given moment. So if palm seeds are ripe and falling they gorge themselves on those at the exclusion of all other food sources. Of course I have no doubt that they will readily consume any other animal that comes along to consume the seeds as well that they can fit in their mouths. With that in mind Im also fairly certain that with the limited availability of most fruits that at other times they are also equally exploiting times of abundant insects as well as vertebrates. The tegu is basically a mobile trash can . If I had to do it over again I believe I would use the Repashy Stew as my primary food source. His products are all I use these days and Ive been very happy with them all.
28 minutes ago · Like

 

[laurarfl]

OK, so I was thinking about more about Savory Stew. I looked at Mazuri again and they just have way too much filler in their foods. And why is there aspen in the insectivore gel? maybe I'm misunderstanding the use of aspen. How is SS as a cost effective diet for multiple adult tegus?

 

[james.w]

$40 for 32 oz. Doesn't seem very cost effective for the SS.

 

[frost]

i think i might have seen this stuff at the taylor MI expo that i go to every once in a while unless im confusing it with something else.what does the food actually look like? i remember seeing something that resembled squished gel cubes.

 

[Allen Repashy]

There is no doubt that the stuff is expensive. I use all high quality ingredients and no fillers only, and on top of that, the gelling agents are uber expensive. We all know Tegus eat a LOT, especially big ones. Wholesale pricing is available to anyone who can reach the $250 minimum, and that cuts the price in half.. so if you are feeding a group of adults, this might be a real option.

You need to also take note, that if you are comparing this to whole meat, and fresh vegetables, that when you mix this stuff up, it makes a LOT of food. One pound of Savory Stew turns into approx EIGHT POUNDS of finished gel... (meat and veggies are typically 80%-85% water). Meaning it is approximately equivalent to an eight pound raw steak.

There is of course the convenience of not having to take the time it takes to go source and buy the fifty individual ingredients I use and mix them together LOL.

Wholesale pricing in four pound bags comes to about $8.00 per pound.... so that is about a Dollar a pound for finished gel. Retail street price would come to approx $1.75 per pound for the finished gel...

That aside, It could make a great once, or twice a week meal as part of a varied diet (a good idea imho). It also would be awesome for those times you have someone taking care of your tegus while you are gone.

Cheers, Allen

 

[james.w]

I was under the impression it was ready to feed, so $40 would give you 32oz of food. If it as you say, that is a pretty good deal for what seems to be a quality product.

Does it require calcium to be added or is it complete?

 

[typherp]

it seems to me by bashing "prepared food", we are bashing our society as a whole. We live in a society where division of work is at the center of what we do. We crave time and convenience. If i had to build (cars) or grow (vegetables) everything I own or eat, I would need 100 life time. I say this to say "be real." Those of us who give our tegus prepared food care as much about our pets as those of you who think they are better than us because they give them "real food." Do you really think what you feed your tegus are what they eat in nature? Do you really want to give them rotten meat and dirt caked fruits. That what some tegus encounter in the wild and they gladly eat them. Do you really think they have better life in the wild than what we can provide? Obviously the last point can be debated till the end of the world and right answer won't be obvious. I rather rely on other experts such as Allen to make food for my animals. Sure, I can come up with my own diet (mice, fruit, crickets...etc.) but do I really know if I am giving them the optimal diet? Do you really want to feed your dog from what you find in the grocery store other that prepared dog food? How many of us feed our dogs and cats anything other than prepared food? Our tegus pets and are no longer wild animals and hopefully, never be wild again. There are plenty of wild tegus and they will more likely stay that way if the demand for pet tegus can be met by the tegu breeders. It's nice to be idealistic but we live in a real world....so let be real.

 

[Thelegendofcharlie]

it seems to me by bashing "prepared food", we are bashing our society as a whole. We live in a society where division of work is at the center of what we do. We crave time and convenience. If i had to build (cars) or grow (vegetables) everything I own or eat, I would need 100 life time. I say this to say "be real." Those of us who give our tegus prepared food care as much about our pets as those of you who think they are better than us because they give them "real food." Do you really think what you feed your tegus are what they eat in nature? Do you really want to give them rotten meat and dirt caked fruits. That what some tegus encounter in the wild and they gladly eat them. Do you really think they have better life in the wild than what we can provide? Obviously the last point can be debated till the end of the world and right answer won't be obvious. I rather rely on other experts such as Allen to make food for my animals. Sure, I can come up with my own diet (mice, fruit, crickets...etc.) but do I really know if I am giving them the optimal diet? Do you really want to feed your dog from what you find in the grocery store other that prepared dog food? How many of us feed our dogs and cats anything other than prepared food? Our tegus pets and are no longer wild animals and hopefully, never be wild again. There are plenty of wild tegus and they will more likely stay that way if the demand for pet tegus can be met by the tegu breeders. It's nice to be idealistic but we live in a real world....so let be real.

Convenience is certainly held in high esteem noone is arguing that, but there is a cost.
That shouldnt be denied, whilst we justify our bad habits and diets.
As far as bashing society as a whole... That an interesting opinion you derived.