Reptilian Giants.....AS PETS!?!?!?!?!?

[ihatehumans]

This may not be a very popular post as a bunch of people on this forum keep the reptiles mentioned....
Their are a number of reptiles in the pet trade that are extremly large. At an expo a 5 year old could buy a baby crocodile! Here are some of the giants f the pet trade:
Water monitors-can be nasty and agressive and grow to 7 feet! Not to mention carnivorous/
Crocodilians-huge, carnivorous reptiles that can grow up to 20 feet. The largest reptile in the world ever found was a 30 foot long saltwater crocodile (yes, you can get those as pets too)
Huge snakes-burmese, reticulated and african rock pythons. These are definatly capable of killing a human, but there are only a handfull of cases recorded of snakes eating people, most not true.

point is, these creatures belong in their native habitiat, not as someones pet. They pose a threat to people as well as native wildlife if released as so many of these giants are.

 

[laurarfl]

In Florida, there is a colony of wild tegus in Hillsborough county. Should we not keep those either? What about the massive amount of damage to wildlife caused by the feral cat population? I guess another big topic would be the keeping of dogs that inflict more injury to people and cause more deaths than large reptiles.

I'm not a fan of big government or heavy regulation. In my opinion, education would go much farther to help the industry. The line to be drawn about what is large, what is scary, or what is inappropriate is just too subjective. There are so many responsible reptile owners that have to bear the brunt of the actions of those who don't care.

 

[ihatehumans]

You do have a point about experienced owners suffering and education, but things like crocodilians shouldn't be kept as pets. They are extremly hard to take care of and removing them from the wild hurts the overall population.

 

[laurarfl]

I agree with your point about crocodilians and many states are moving toward tighter regulations for them. Here in FL, for example, there are various licensing for various types of crocodilians and alligators can only be kept for educational purposes.

Just an aside, aren't most of them are now bred in captivity?

 

[ihatehumans]

I have seen Captive Raised ones for sale...Ones collected when still in their egg. Some are smuggled in the pet trade. Anyone read the lizard king? Perfect example. If you go post something on kingsnake.com most people aren't going to speak up about it being not legal. Most don't know.

 

[Tux]

So what do you think about Extreme giants? I don't feel it's my place to tell someone what they can and can not keep. If someone is experianced enough and has the room to provide the proper habitat than what is the issue? Crocodylus porosus males which are much larger than females grow to about 18ft, heck the largest actually confirmed was something like 23ft from a skull, with that being said I don't see saltwater crocs being sold. If you wish to provide proof of a 30ft saltwater croc I'm all for it....I pity those that want to keep one but their stupidity should be allowed so long as they keep it away from others.

As for a 5 year old buying a croc....show me the seller because no adult I know would do that. I've had burms and rectics at various times, you don't handle them alone, you always have alcohol near by and a knife, the other person or ppl know what to do if something bad happens.

Different levels of experience exist, different amounts of available space exist, people should be able to keep what they can care for properly.

 

[laurarfl]

I currently have a 12ft Burm and a 3ft gator. I did a lot of research before getting either and I have people I consider mentors that help me out. I have proper permitting, wildlife inspections from FWC, liability insurance, microchip on the Burm (as per FWC regs), and a plan for alternative homes for both of these guys.

That said, I've heard stories of caimans (sp?) sold at flea markets up north, crocodilians kept in horrible conditions, and I saw a Burm on Craig's List recently in an outdoor screen enclosure and the weather has been in the 40's this past week.

But the problem lies in personal responsibility...it's a social problem. People don't want to pay their bills, learn how to take care of animals, or accept responsibility when things go wrong. This is just my personal opinion , but personal behavior can only be regulated so darn much. It's not what our government was originally designed to do.

I haven't yet read The Lizard King but it is on my wish list. When reading those kinds of stories, I have to ask myself what percentage of the industry does it represent? There are a lot of farms here in FL that breed a variety of crocodilians.

 

[Tux]

I totally agree and I see the same thing happen with other species of reptile and mammal alike. I however have never seen saltwater crocs for sale. The dwarf caiman is the most common in the pet trade. Anyone willing to keep a saltwater croc is a bit on the crazy side.

 

[ihatehumans]

Tux...I have seen the saltwater crocodile for sale on gherp.com...i checked and its not their anymore. Can't remember if it was captive born. In my smithsonian guide to repitles and amphibians it mentions one found that was 30 feet. If this was fact or based on legend i Cant prove. According to a back issue of national geographic I have from..gosh the 1980s says the largest saltwater crocodile in captivity is or was 18 feet.
I think extreme giants are O.K. to keep as long as the keeper knows what s/he is doing. I could understand someone keeping a large snake as a rescue, MAYBE a pet if the owner is responsible and more then 1 people are present when they are handled/ cage matinence.
Laura, you have a gator? Not to be nosy or anything, but how did you come to get it? What is its habitat like?

 

[laurarfl]

I got my gator from gherp, an extremely reliable and responsible breeder. If they were selling a saltie, it was likely to a zoo or another breeding facility.

I do have a gator, I applied to the Fl FWC to obtain a permit for it, which gherp checked before selling it. FWC has inspected my habitat to make sure it is up to par. It housed in a large tank in my front living room (herp room) with two submersible filters and a dock built to accommodate a legal size basking site. He can climb out of the water, get up on it, and has enough room to turn around, lay out, etc. Ditto for the water...deep enough to swim and submerge, more water than land. He has a heat lamp and eats Mazuri croc chow supplemented with rodents and chicks.

He is at the point where he will be traded back to Glades Herp for a hatchling as he is getting too big for the enclosure I have and the handling purposes I require.

 

[ihatehumans]

When you and i say gator, i assume we mean the American Alligator?

 

[MMRR - jif]

I probably shouldn't even respond to this thread but I can't help myself. As a hobbyist and as a rescuer I have seen both sides of this story. Personally I keep large lizard species. I love my Cyclura and Green Iguanas, Monitors, and Tegus. I would be outraged if someone were to tell me that I could no longer keep these species. But, we also get our share of large boids and large lizards into the rescue, a good number of them in pretty pathetic shape. Most of the time these animals are being surrendered because of the owner's ignorance and failure to research before acquiring the animal. Many of the others are an example of our "throw away" society... pets being a disposable commodity.

As an adoption coordinator I can pick and choose who is allowed to adopt our animals. We have a policy that we will not adopt large boids or dangerous lizards into a pet home. As a result of this policy we normally have to house, heat, and feed these animals for a very long time before a suitable placement is found. My belief is that I'd rather be responsible for the animal myself than place someone else at risk.

As founder and operator of a rescue and as a member of MSH, CHS, and the IRCF, I do as much educating as I have time for. If I can positively influence just one person at each event that we do I feel like I've accomplished something. If I can convince one parent that a Green Iguana is not an appropriate pet for their 10 year old son I've done my job for the day. If I can show the 20 year old college student that an ackie is a better choice than a water monitor for multiple reasons than I've done both that person and the water monitor a service. Tux, you are absolutely correct when you say that people should be able to keep whatever they can care for properly. Unfortunately people overestimate their abilities.

I feel that we are already over-regulated by the government. I would not support any federal or state legislation that would prohibit owners from keeping certain pets. I would, however, support a permitting system, possibly county run, that would work like a driver's permit. Before being allowed a permit to keep a certain species you would have to pass a written test about the basic husbandry of that species. The cost of these permits should be minimal, for example, $20/specie applied for.

I hope that I can touch on this more a little later but I'm at work and it's time to shut things down and go home.

 

[ihatehumans]

Thank you very much for your post. It has definitly opened up my eyes on the subject. I like rhino iguanas. I have come to the conclusion that large reptiles ( exept crocodiles that aren't gators) are O.K. to be in the pet trade if owned by responsible people. Please, post more on this subject.

 

[laurarfl]

Yes, the American Alligator. I work with young children and I'm in the habit of referring to things by common name rather than scientific. Sorry about that...

I enjoy hearing other people's opinions as well...

 

[Tux]

The problem with the permitting idea is that when you give government at any level an inch they take a mile, the costs would not stay reasonable in the long run. I do agree some overestimate their abilities however the larger problem seems to be that people don't even consider their abilities or what they know about the animal. Anyone who knows me knows I can go right off the deep end talking about these people.....just ask bobby lol

As for the 30 foot croc, I know their have been claims but never any actually measured to be such size. Most found to be the largest are done so based on estimates as they are found in the form of skeletal remains.

As said I have experience with larger snakes and fairly large lizards but personally I couldn't see myself caring for a member of the Crocodilia order. I do support those of us who do so responsibly though. The bad keepers should not be a reason to punish the good ones.

I am starting to think I need to come down and relieve Jane of a reptile or 2 with the cost of her rescue, when I did rescues on a much smaller scale it was hard so I can't imagine the work she has to put in.....hows everyone feel about cloning

 

[ihatehumans]

cloning reptiles? Was that a joke?

 

[Tux]

I was actually talking about cloning jane but ya it was a joke.

 

[laurarfl]

OK I wasn't going to get back on this thread, lol. My problem with the permitting is that I think it relies on the monies of the law abiding people to pursue those who aren't following the rules. For example, I pay a $100 yearly to keep my Burm in FL. That's a lot of money to some people and some people don't pay it. So, my fees are funding the new efforts to punish those who don't have a permit. If I am doing everything right to begin with, as in I'm not part of the problem, why should I along with other responsible keepers be footing the bill? The people who are irresponsible keepers to begin with have no problem keeping a large snake without paying the fees.

Now some S Fl districts are starting the same type of local permits with iguanas. It's just a little too late. The iguanas are so populous down there that trying to restrict new ownership is going to do little for the hundreds, no thousands of breeding green igs. Igs make terrible pets for beginners and they are the ultimate poster child for disposable reptiles. The ig I have I rescued off Craig List when he was a sickly hatchling and had been bought in Miami for $5. I just don't think permitting is going to do much for that problem.


OK, now I'm done! Yes, cloning rescue workers would be great if I supported cloning! ha! I'm sure you have your hands full with the work you have done. I have only done a little bit of rescues with bearded dragons. While very rewarding (most of the time), it is also expensive and time consuming.

 

[ihatehumans]

Being a rescue worker must be really sad..seing so many animals die and the ones that make it no one wants because they are deformed or they get too big.

 

[hoosier]

Being a rescue worker must be really sad..seing so many animals die and the ones that make it no one wants because they are deformed or they get too big.

true, but imagine the reward of helping an animal get better and then finding it a good home where it will be loved and cared for