WANTED: Female Blue Tegu

[COWHER]

dude this has been discussed for a long time and the truth has been told already. accept it or not... do some searching and you'll find the truth. ........over........ :roll:

 

[DaveDragon]

The way I see it, if there were (6) imported approx. 8 years ago, 5 years ago they were old enough to breed. So the first captive generation was born 5 years ago. It is assumed the original (6) were all from the same litter so there was direct inbreeding. I am assuming they were all bred at the same time, but the amount of females laying eggs is unknown. Any further breeding of the original (6) would result in the same level of inbreeding. These first captive generation were ready to breed 3 years later, so that would be approx. 2 years ago. At this level you could have a mother breeding with a son, etc., for a second generation of inbreeding. Any Blue Tegu older than 3 years HAS to be offspring of the original (6).

So the (2) Blue Tegu's we have (3 years old) could be at worst the second generation of inbreeding, at best additional offspring of the original (6).

I don't know anything about inbreeding, but 2 generations doesn't sound like alot. Does anyone know how many generations of inbreeding would cause birth defects??

It's also possible that a few other Blue Tegu's could have been brought into the country. None have been acknowledged but it's possible. It's also possible one of the originals could have been crossed with a high white black & white to produce desirable offspring. I'm sure there are a couple of Tegu Breeders who saw some dollar signs in that combination.

 

[DanRC30]

Wow... that's rerally open-minded of you...... I'm sorry, I don't generally believe everything I hear. I prefer to do my own research and come to informed conclusions.

Fact is, even if the "original 6" model was accurate, my male at best is a 1st generation male... if not, he's one of the original 6. He's certainly not 2nd inbred generation. So assuming he's among 1st inbred, there wouldn't be any signs of defects from a 1st litter of inbreeding. The signs just wouldn't show up... especially in reptiles! Even in humans it doesn't show up in 1st generation usually.

So, I think some people may have made some assumptions that are somewhat incorrect. In additon, I still don't believe only 6 came in. Like I said before, there's no way to be absolutely positive only 6 came in. To truly believe that 100% for sure is extremely presumptuous and (not trying to be insulting) somewhat arrogant.

Again, not trying to be insulting with this post... just contributing my knowledge and experience in a good discussion.

 

[ApriliaRufo]

alright! my kind of discussion. I will apologize in advance for punctuation etc as I am on my pda. it is a very good point that you bring up. we all discuss going to SA with ''deep pockets'' so how would we indeed know what we have here? I do believe that there is a great deal of inbreeding among blue tegus, but it is arrogant to think that they are the only ones imported. of course if someone illegally imported blue tegus they would do themselves a favor to keep their mouths shut. all tegus are restricted menos teguixin, but somehow have no issues and they are becoming VERY popular in reptile specialty stores. it is a safe assumption that we all could be wrong. we have not enough facts to claim to create facts. who knows? after seeing the health, size, and majesty of that blue, we could all benefit from theorizing. there is too much ''proof'' being slung around without enough evidence. I like it. we should hang out bro.

 

[PuffDragon]

DanRC30:
...my male at best is a 1st generation male... if not, he's one of the original 6. He's certainly not 2nd inbred generation. So assuming he's among 1st inbred, there wouldn't be any signs of defects from a 1st litter of inbreeding.

Just curious, how'd you come to these conclusions?

...and why is this not in the Blue Section??? The Classified responses should be PM only in my opinion. This is a good discussion and glad its happening. Just maybe in the right place for later viewers.

 

[DaveDragon]

it is a very good point that you bring up. we all discuss going to SA with ''deep pockets'' so how would we indeed know what we have here?

YES! You can buy whatever you want, providing you have enough money. Finding a way to illegally export selected Blue Tegu's is not out of the question.

I do believe that there is a great deal of inbreeding among blue tegus, but it is arrogant to think that they are the only ones imported.

How do you define a great deal of inbreeding?? As I said, I think at worst, there are 2 generations of inbreeding from the original (6). Any adult Blue's more than 3 years old have to be offspring of the original (6).

we have not enough facts to claim to create facts. who knows? after seeing the health, size, and majesty of that blue, we could all benefit from theorizing. there is too much ''proof'' being slung around without enough evidence.

I agree, even though some info has come from Ron St. Pierre it's certainly possible he's holding something back.

 

[DaveDragon]

DanRC30:
...my male at best is a 1st generation male... if not, he's one of the original 6. He's certainly not 2nd inbred generation. So assuming he's among 1st inbred, there wouldn't be any signs of defects from a 1st litter of inbreeding.

Just curious, how'd you come to these conclusions?

See my post 4 above yours. The numbers add up to me.

...and why is this not in the Blue Section??? The Classified responses should be PM only in my opinion. This is a good discussion and glad its happening. Just maybe in the right place for later viewers.

I agree, this discussion should be moved into a new thread in the Blue Section. MODS???!!!

 

[Mike]

Moved to blues. I left a shadow topic in case he still wanted a female.

 

[DaveDragon]

Thanks Mike!!

 

[ApriliaRufo]

thank the few of you for being open minded, and i've always enjoyed conversing with you dave. the reason that the so called original six would be the parents we can theorize that they were siblings. so many have been to SA and failed to see blues in the wild. they are likely related. the idea they are not inbred would only be fair to say if there were around 2 to 3 hundred in existence. there are way way way more. the demand is either met by inbreeding. or the importation of many more. they are easily attainable and relatively inexpensive.

and to give dan a fair reception he is correct, inbreeding doesn't usually cause defects in first second and sometimes third generations. that's not a guess, that's evidentiary theory. its not recommended, but its not an immediate threat.

 

[DaveDragon]

How do we know how many there are in existence?? I'll start a poll to see how many are owned by the people on the board. I doubt there are even 1000 in existence.

They aren't easily attainable. From what we've heard, there was only one clutch hatched last year. There must have been many more the years before. If the original (6) included (3) females and they each had (15) eggs 5 years ago that would be 45. Times 3 = 135 @ 3 years ago. Then the first generation will be ready to breed. The original (3) females are still producing (15) each per year and now (60) new females are producing (15) each = 45 + 900 = 945 possible each of the last 2 years. 945 x 2 years = 1890. 1890 + the 135 first generation = 2025 possible. I doubt anywhere near that were hatched since most people don't breed and last year there was probably only one clutch, so a number under 1000 is likely. My original estimate.

 

[DanRC30]

Moved to blues. I left a shadow topic in case he still wanted a female.

Thanks Mike. Yes, I'm still looking for a nice female. Dave and I had a nice conversation last night, but he feels the wife won't let the female go. I think he's going to talk to her about it, but for now it doesn't look like it's gonna happen.

I think Dave understands my predicament, and from what he told me, she's a bully and attacks his male. Not his wife, the female tegu... It's highly likely they'll never breed, so I think Dave would like to let me try with my male... I guess we'll see what happens...

There was a nice female blue sold on Fauna several months ago. Does anyone know who bought it? Maybe the new owners are willing to let her go? Any help will be appreciated and rewarded!

 

[red_tegu28]

There was a 3yo blue female on kingsnake about 2 months ago for $450 shipped It was only on there for 1 day

 

[DanRC30]

Ok, so they are out there. I hope everyone in this forum will let me know as soon as they see one. :-D

Let the hunt begin! ;-)

 

[Swtbrat]

I know Todd Seadorf of Palm Beach Exotics <he is a member of the board but never see him post> has blues and will be breeding them this spring.
Just mentioning it since he is the only other person I know that has blues beside the ones on the board that are regular posters.

I understand how important it is to some people about inbreeding and genetics ect but for me I just want a high white blue as a pet.
I am not a breeder and don't wish to be,I just love my Tegus and have always wanted a blue.
I personnally consider a underbite a very minor defect but then again I haven't seen any that appeared to be affected and seems everyone who has one loves them as much as any others.

You either approve or you don't approve but to me it doesn't really matter what you think because if possible I will get a blue. :slap

Brat!

 

[DanRC30]

I find one thing interesting... I've seen pics of blues that are definitely a lot younger than mine, being that they are not fully grown and not sexually mature yet, with zero underbite. If the level of inbreeding was that bad, wouldn't the defects become more severe as time went on and higher levels of inbreeding occur? I believe the answer to that is YES!

 

[WhiskeyTango]

I know Todd Seadorf of Palm Beach Exotics <he is a member of the board but never see him post> has blues and will be breeding them this spring.
Just mentioning it since he is the only other person I know that has blues beside the ones on the board that are regular posters.

I understand how important it is to some people about inbreeding and genetics ect but for me I just want a high white blue as a pet.
I am not a breeder and don't wish to be,I just love my Tegus and have always wanted a blue.
I personnally consider a underbite a very minor defect but then again I haven't seen any that appeared to be affected and seems everyone who has one loves them as much as any others.

You either approve or you don't approve but to me it doesn't really matter what you think because if possible I will get a blue. :slap






I totally respect everything you just said!
Brat!

 

[ApriliaRufo]

I don't believe it is fair for anyone to disapprove of what kind of tegu someone has. I hope I never gave off an air that I disapprove of anyone owning a blue tegu. I only think that people need to start crossing blues more so that their DNA may flourish without running into itself. I said before that a few tegu owners here in NorCal are looking for the Stars and Stripes tegu. bobby, dan get to work as I also am willing to pay good money for the stars and stripes tegu. the only issue with this, is that bobby is the key. if its not one of bobby's true Chacoans (sorry if some of you don't like that word) its not the real deal.

 

[DanRC30]

I said before that a few tegu owners here in NorCal are looking for the Stars and Stripes tegu. bobby, dan get to work as I also am willing to pay good money for the stars and stripes tegu.

Stars and stripes Tegu?

 

[PuffDragon]

red X white X blue