Extreme Giant Seizure, front legs paralyzed!!!

[SuperSkylar]

Hey guys, my new baby Extreme Giant woke me up tonight. Whipping its tail, convulsing, eyes opening and closing, same with the mouth, flopping in the corner upside down!
I picked her up and flipped her back over. She was very cold and completely limp. I will go step by step, detailing what happened in the passing hour/s.
She was cold and completely limp. Opening her mouth as if to gag, or attempting to breath, only once every so often.
My place is around 70-80 right now even at night so I don't have the heat lamp up.
I put the heat lamp on just in case, maybe warm her up and give her extra energy..
I have the the UVB covered so it shouldn't be that.
I picked her up and lifted her super close to the heat lamp, to the point my hands were burning.
After a few times of doing that, she got more active, and would shake her head more often, as well as open her mouth in segments of two gulps.
Her tail began moving side to side in a portion like a snake.
I then noticed her neck had a crink in it, and I worried it was broken. But doubted it because a little later when she got more energy, she could hold her head up by herself.
I thought she couldn't breathe, so i lifted her up, n held her by the back half, so there was no compression on her lungs. She would move around more and more after doing this.
She had to take these huge gulps to fill her lungs it seems.
She began taking gulps in intervals of 3.
She has been twitching more, more energy and active.
Her breathing became regular, and improved lung movement, but still below normal.
I then rubbed her neck multiple times, causing her to move and walk.
Her back legs finally started working, ans she would push her self away, and then bask.
She can now use her back legs better, and breath a bit better, but she still cannot use her front legs, and her fingers/toes twitch...
She now is going in and out of sleep.

I am SO confused and concerned! Luckily I recorded most of it. Obviously I sound goofy in it.
She seems EXTREMELY healthy. Eats everyday to every other day. She has more than doubled in size in a months time. And has that double double barrel shotgun fat tail already that they usually develop in yearlings.
I feed em chicken liver, blackberries, blueberries, banana, cherries, and some other stuff, along with their vitamins and minerals.

Whats going on?! What do you guys think?!!

 

[bmx3000max]

Can you post the video

 

[dragonmetalhead]

From your description, that does sound like a seizure of some sort. Call your vet ASAP, and show them the video. I hope everything works out and will keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[james.w]

What are you using for calcium? What are you using for uvb? What is the basking temp and what are you using to provide heat at the basking site?

 

[SuperSkylar]

I talked to my friend who's a nurse, and she said its most likely a seizure.. She said there is probably nothing I can do..
It wouldn't be UVB issues, considering shes only been here around a month. No twitching, and her boy is fine. If anything, I am giving them slight excess. I have 2 48" 10.0 UVB tubes less than 12" above them.
They should get all their calcium and what not from their diet. But I add a little bit of Rep-Cal Herptivive, and phosphorus free Calcium with D3.
As for basking. Like I said, I haven't been using one for the past few days. Its been a steady 100 degrees in my apartment, and 80 degrees at night.
How can I post the vid on here? Just through the attachment button on the advanced reply, like posting a picture?

 

[james.w]

If the enclosure is 100+ degrees throughout the day, there is your problem.

 

[SuperSkylar]

If the enclosure is 100+ degrees throughout the day, there is your problem.

Its not the problem. 100 degree *PEAK* The tank is 80 degrees always. Its can get up to 100 in some spots, but I have the air circulating and its about 70-100 depending on the area.

 

[james.w]

You mentioned your apartment was at 100 degrees during the day. Tegus require a basking spot to metabolize their food. The diet you mentioned doesn't contain much calcium, so unless you are adding the proper amount, calcium intake could be an issue. It most definitely could have been a seizure, but you need to find the cause.

 

[SuperSkylar]

You mentioned your apartment was at 100 degrees during the day. Tegus require a basking spot to metabolize their food. The diet you mentioned doesn't contain much calcium, so unless you are adding the proper amount, calcium intake could be an issue. It most definitely could have been a seizure, but you need to find the cause.

Yes, if you can tell from my first post, I am a little bit shocked and disorderly.
I have been giving them calcium supplements. The male who actually eats less and is bigger is fine..

 

[chelvis]

There is a number of things that it could be. Young tegus may not twitch before calcium deffiancey can result in seizures, small animal there is not a lot of calcium in there small bodies to lose. The temps are worrying, they need a warm basking spot year around (110-120 degrees) but also need a cool space to cool down in. An exposure to too high of temps can result in brain trauma and can also have seizures. A cage mate could also have inflicted a wound to the spinal cord and this could result in what you are seeing. I would separate the two tegus and get the sick one to a vet to try and rule out what is going on, but there is a good chance with a small tegu there is not much they can do.

Other causes could be toxins, trauma, genetics, virus, parasites, diet, husbandry issues and that's just off the top of my head.

 

[SuperSkylar]

Its not the Temps or Calcium. That is ruled out. As I explained before, I mis-typed about the temps. They are not baking in there at all, nor are they freezing. She LOVES to eat. She eats till her stomach looks like its going to burst.
I HIGHLY doubt she has a broken neck. As she can use her back legs, but not front (which should be the opposite), and support her head up.
I suspect it is most likely neurological... Her balance is very off, leaning/tilting to sides, never flat basking. She still can't use her front legs.
After talking to my nurse friend, we both have agreed that is is most likely neurological/genetic.
She told me because the Tegu is so small, and a lizard, there is really nothing they can do.
Hopefully she kicks this thing, but if not, I guess I will have to contact Bobby or something...

 

[james.w]

How are temps and calcium ruled out?? What testing was done to determine this?

 

[chelvis]

I agree with james on this, nothing has been ruled out. Tegus need high temps to digest and absorb their food, they can eat and eat and eat but they are not getting anything from it if they cannot absorb anything.

If it is nurological like you are thinking, really the only kind thing to do would be to put the little guy down. Before doing that I would do a good review of cage setup.

 

[SuperSkylar]

Because I supplement them with calcium, and a generous amount. And she eats all the food I feed her. She eats better/more healthy than my last tegu who was an absolute beauty.
Also, the male who is bigger and eats about half as much as her, is completely fine.
The temps. As I said before, I miss stated. I was shaken up, you can clearly see in the format of how I went about starting this thread. Waking up in the middle of the night, to my poor seizing tegu.
So please excuse me, I didn't do everything perfect.
The only thing I can say about the temps is that they are DEFINITELY not too hot. I am concerned about the knowledge on here if it is insisted that there MUST be a 120 degree spot 24/7. As in Nature, that is not the case.
So as I said, that is ruled out.

I am sorry if I am coming off as a ****, but I wouldn't come here if it was something so obvious. I figured maybe it may be something not common, but well known about.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

Ditto Chelvis,.. just from reading the first post three things popped into my head, lack of calcium, temps and or possible toxins.

For calcium, what whole prey are you offering?
With meaty meals where you add your own supplements you have to get the amounts right. Each tegu grows at a different rate therefore will require more or less than the next. Just because one tegu is doing fine and possibly may be getting enough calcium from their diet doesn't mean the other one is. You would be surprised at how much calcium is needed, what it's used for and what it affects in the body,.. from neurological demands to bone structure.

For your temps what are you using to measure them?
It's a lot harder to keep proper temps with a glass enclosure since temps fluctuate easily. They don't require just high temperatures but a proper temp gradient to regulate their body temps as well as for digestion. If it's 100 degrees in your house then how hot is it inside the enclosure with the lights on? Or even how cold at night with the lights off? You have two extremes going on and they may not be able to properly regulate their body temps, which will only lead to other serious issues.

With possible toxins it could have been something it was exposed to inside the enclosure, outside of it or food wise. But I'm leaning more towards the first two. Take this first seizure as an early sign that somethings off, needs to be figured out and fixed before it's too late. It doesn't surprise me that it's the smallest tegu that's affected first.

 

[james.w]

I am not saying the basking spot should be 120, but a spot of 105-115 should be provided and they are in nature. Ambient temps of 80 will provide surface temps of 110-120 in the sunlight.

What are the temps in the enclosure, basking and cool side? How are you measuring them? Are you offering any whole prey?

 

[chelvis]

I only bring up the diet and temps because that is going to be the first thing that either a vet or a bobby will ask. No discredit to your nurse friend but humans and mammals are very different then reptiles. Most herp vets eliminate husbandry issues before even examining an animal and 90% of the time this solves the issues. I am sorry if I hit a nerve and yes you are right that 24/7 they do not have those temps in the wild but 6 to 9 hrs of the day for 6 months of the year there are so on average high basking spots should be offered twice a day if you do it mathematically but that's also not what happens in the wild. They also do not eat ground turkey or white lab mice in the wild.

If you do not want to provided details on the set-up there is little that people over the internet can do. We cannot see, touch or examine the animal. A herp vet can do that, but again they will also want to know the cage setup.

 

[SuperSkylar]

I am not saying the basking spot should be 120, but a spot of 105-115 should be provided and they are in nature. Ambient temps of 80 will provide surface temps of 110-120 in the sunlight.

What are the temps in the enclosure, basking and cool side? How are you measuring them? Are you offering any whole prey?

I am away from the tank all of today (going to doctors for myself), I will tell you the exact numbers when I am back.
I have a digital humidity temp censor, and the Petco analog kind.
No I don't feed them pinkies or anything like that. Just a WIDE selection of fruits and meats. Along with supplements, and tegu/monitor staple food.

---

I had them in one of those small 10-20 gallon acrylic tanks. I was going to move them to my 220 gallon glass tank this week as they were too small before.
I have 2 4' 10.0 UVB lights. And 2 150w red heat lamps.
I use (not sure of the name) that coco shell mulch and cypress mulch for substrate.
Always feed them outside the cage.
Anything else? I am more than willing to answer.

 

[james.w]

So you are keeping two tegus in a 10-20 gallon tank? What is tegu/monitor staple food?

 

[SuperSkylar]

So you are keeping two tegus in a 10-20 gallon tank? What is tegu/monitor staple food?

Yes, they were small at the time, almost all tail. Its not bad for a temporary home, like a foot by two feet.
I am not sure, I will have to get back to you on that one.