Extreme Giant Seizure, front legs paralyzed!!!

[SuperSkylar]

Thanks a lot man. Il try that.
And posting freak.. lol, its not that I need a pat on the back. It's your attitude this whole time. I don't need an "oh wow, great job". But it just shows how fake your whole deal is that your not even excited for the animal. I know damn well that if the situation was reversed, I would be extatic. But here you stay..

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Your Tegu sounds like it needs whole prey items, ie mice. Always use pre killed mice never live.
I had the what sounds close to the same issue with one of my Tegus. She got better and is 100% good now. She had been impacted from eating mulch. She had surgery to remove the impaction. She was getting worse after surgery, while she could not eat solid foods. The vet diagnosed MBD and the vet was even giving her liquid calcium, and she was not getting better. She was dragging her front legs for a month, I even gave up hope that she would be normal again. I did not think she would get better. I left the country for a month and my friend was taking care of her. We talked once a week. She was getting back on solid foods then and my friend said she was starting to use her front legs. He increased the mice to once every 3 days instead of once a week. It took some time but she recovered. I gave up using any kind of calcium after seeing the results of the vet getting nowhere even using the liquid calcium. I have not used any calcium supplements in over 2 years and all 3 of my Tegus are very healthy.

How much did all the cost btw?? For the surgery n extra vet bills, n what not.

 

[tommyboy]

Put the water bowl in. Got umidity up. Will do the hides tomorrow.
Temporary? Yea, I mean its not glass... But technically speaking, this is much more acurate to where they would be in nature than glass/acrylic, being wood fiber
Lol, and not even a "good job" hahaha. Man some people.. "YOUR POOR ANIMAL!!!", you build them a monsterous enclosure probably bigger than 90% of the peoples on here, n its just what ever.. sure you care about the animals, n not just feeling right. :/

I think you would be shocked to hear how large most members enclosures are. I would say that 90% have much larger than your 4x4. It would not be considered a "monstrous" enclosure.
James does not sugar coat anything, but you will be hard pressed to find many other members with more knowledge. You may not like how it comes across on the computer, but you really should listen to what people are telling you.
I think your 4x4 is fine...temporarily. I own 2 tegus that were just shy of 4 feet within a year. Your 8x2x2 is ok for your hatchlings, but 2 feet deep is not enough for a 2.5 -4ft yearling. Dont take everybodys remarks as personal attack. people are just trying to help you and your animals. I really hope you keep us informed about how he is doing and that you get him looked at by a good reptile vet ASAP.

 

[james.w]

Thanks tommyboy.

 

[SuperSkylar]

I would not be shocked. I think the truth is being stretched here more than any thing. Because when 90% of people post pictures of there young/yearlings, they are in glass cages. I have only seen pro breeders build 8'x8'+ cages. That doesn't even shock me lol. It costs about 100 dollars to build something like that.. all you need is the know how and space.
I agree if they were 4', I would build a much larger enclosure. But until then, now that the tank is hundreds of times bigger than them, they are fine.
I came on here if anyone had previous or knowlege of their tegus going the same thing. Not people guessing with no personal experience.

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*Experience with there Tegu having a seizure*

 

[DavidRosi]

I've read through all 5 pages of this thread and can safely say you need to grow up and stop being a child about everything. All points made have been very good points, from the outside I can see that clearly. How about just accepting the facts and stop letting your ego get so ahead of you. Rant over. P.s. any comments concerning my tegu, husbandry or enclosure will be dismissed; as you clearly are just a lot more bark than bite.

 

[SuperSkylar]

Hey guys, could you post your 4' yearlings and 8'x8' enclosures please, I'd really love to see them.

 

[SnakeCharmr728]

who ever said 8x8? most of us keep them in 8x4's.

I have my 4month old in a 4x2
and my adults have a 8x4.

All we want to do is help you, and you are taking offense, having an attitude like that will get you in more trouble than good as people will not respect what you have to say.

 

[james.w]

Here is an 8x3.5

Here is my tegu when I first moved him in

Here he is again, a little bit older and bigger

 

[DavidRosi]

Hey guys, could you post your 4' yearlings and 8'x8' enclosures please, I'd really love to see them.

I feel genuine and deeply sorry for the tegus in your care.

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James.w, amen to that !

 

[SuperSkylar]

I thank those that were actually helpful. Again, thank you.

 

[james.w]

Nothing to say about the pics I posted?

 

[apocalypse910]

Any updates on her condition?

I will tell you that while I think it is important to do your own research into his condition it is imperative that you get her to a vet. I know you were told that there is nothing they can do for a lizard his size - but that is completely untrue. I've brought many reptiles to my vet over the years - she has saved their lives on more than a few occasions - Many of them were far smaller than a young tegu.

A qualified reptile vet should be able to get at least an idea of the cause and figure out a plan for treatment if something can be done. Surgery may be difficult for a small lizard - but medication is available, and if the problem is nutritional you can proceed accordingly. Right now none of us know what the problem is because we can't do an examination, run blood tests, or take x-rays. All we can do is make guesses about the issue based on husbandry.

I couldn't give less of a damn about the cage size right now - it is important but the tegus being cramped didn't cause a seizure - building them a larger cage won't fix it. Symptoms don't get much more serious than seizures - its as simple as this, if you care about her as much as you say you do prove it and get her to a vet.

 

[laurarfl]

ditto

 

[SuperSkylar]

Any updates on her condition?

I will tell you that while I think it is important to do your own research into his condition it is imperative that you get her to a vet. I know you were told that there is nothing they can do for a lizard his size - but that is completely untrue. I've brought many reptiles to my vet over the years - she has saved their lives on more than a few occasions - Many of them were far smaller than a young tegu.

A qualified reptile vet should be able to get at least an idea of the cause and figure out a plan for treatment if something can be done. Surgery may be difficult for a small lizard - but medication is available, and if the problem is nutritional you can proceed accordingly. Right now none of us know what the problem is because we can't do an examination, run blood tests, or take x-rays. All we can do is make guesses about the issue based on husbandry.

I couldn't give less of a damn about the cage size right now - it is important but the tegus being cramped didn't cause a seizure - building them a larger cage won't fix it. Symptoms don't get much more serious than seizures - its as simple as this, if you care about her as much as you say you do prove it and get her to a vet.

Thank you very much. And yes there is improvement. She can move ok now. Not eating, but I pick her up and let her drink water. She has MUCH better muscle control. She can't use her front legs, but can move them a bit more than before.
I will put the hides in soon, I have the set up really nice now. A huge water bowl to drink and lay in. Around 110 basking spot. Lots of UVB, will probably add more. Tall wall height so it can be open top for air circulation. Just bought a bunch of whole prey.
Doesn't get much better. I really hope my girl continues to improve. By the way they're growing, and what you guys say, in this tank size, and feeding habits, my boy should be a 5' yearling hahaha

 

[james.w]

How are you going to keep the heat and humidity in the enclosure with the open top?

 

[apocalypse910]

Thank you very much. And yes there is improvement. She can move ok now. Not eating, but I pick her up and let her drink water. She has MUCH better muscle control. She can't use her front legs, but can move them a bit more than before.
I will put the hides in soon, I have the set up really nice now. A huge water bowl to drink and lay in. Around 110 basking spot. Lots of UVB, will probably add more. Tall wall height so it can be open top for air circulation. Just bought a bunch of whole prey.
Doesn't get much better. I really hope my girl continues to improve. By the way they're growing, and what you guys say, in this tank size, and feeding habits, my boy should be a 5' yearling hahaha

I am so happy to hear that she is feeling better.

Sorry for another long-winded post but after reading everything in the thread again I think you need to reconsider MBD as the likely culprit here. I still maintain that you will not be able to get a definite diagnosis without going to a vet but given the info you've provided I think it warrants another look.

I used to think that MBD was something that happened when irresponsible owners didn't give their lizards calcium. Unfortunately reality is far far more complex than this. I learned the hard way - I've always prided myself on my husbandry and I've kept reptiles for virtually my entire life. A few months ago I lost two of my Juvenile geckos to the disease despite having dusted every meal they ever ate. I was devastated - and honestly had trouble even believing the diagnosis at first as it struck so fast and left all of my older geckos unscathed.

Calcium intake is only one part of the equation. The foods you listed aren't particularly high in calcium so you definitely need supplementation. As far as I know the only foods that don't require it are foods with bone included. Liver, ground meats, and veggies don't have enough on their own. You are supplementing some which is good - The whole prey you got will be a huge improvement as I think the bone is absorbed better than supplements.

I think you have D3 covered - glass filters UVB and screen reduces it but from what you said you had two fairly powerful bulbs so I don't think a lack of D3 caused the issue. In fact if your main calcium source has d3 they may be getting too much but thinking about it more I don't believe that is your issue.

I honestly think the problem is the lack of a basking spot. Digestive enzymes only work properly at a narrow temp range. In humans this isn't an issue - we are warm blooded and stay at a constant 98.6 degrees. Reptiles are whatever temp they are exposed to - so while an 80 degree cage seems warm they can't properly digest unless they have access to a higher temp to thermally-regulate. The result is poor absorption of food, and the associated nutrients including calcium. This seems to be one of the more overlooked causes of MBD.

In juvenile lizards many of the initial signs of the disease are skipped - no early tremors, deformed limbs, etc. Their calcium requirements are insane so the disease can strike stunningly quickly.

The symptoms are seizures, tremors after exertion, kinks in spine, and paralysis/paresis of the limbs. It seems to be a perfect fit and the temporary lack of a basking spot could easily explain how it happened.

I can't stress enough that this is still a serious condition but it is treatable if you get to a vet. It sounds like you are putting a lot of work into getting a more permanent setup together which is good - but this will not resolve on its own even if a proper basking spot is provided. The vet can prescribe calcium injections and oral medications which will make a big difference in recovery. This condition can result in cardiac arrest - you may not have any warning if things are getting worse.

We are all rooting for her - Please promise me you will see a vet tomorrow.

 

[SuperSkylar]

How are you going to keep the heat and humidity in the enclosure with the open top?

High humidity here/in my apartment.

Thank you very much. And yes there is improvement. She can move ok now. Not eating, but I pick her up and let her drink water. She has MUCH better muscle control. She can't use her front legs, but can move them a bit more than before.
I will put the hides in soon, I have the set up really nice now. A huge water bowl to drink and lay in. Around 110 basking spot. Lots of UVB, will probably add more. Tall wall height so it can be open top for air circulation. Just bought a bunch of whole prey.
Doesn't get much better. I really hope my girl continues to improve. By the way they're growing, and what you guys say, in this tank size, and feeding habits, my boy should be a 5' yearling hahaha

I am so happy to hear that she is feeling better.

Sorry for another long-winded post but after reading everything in the thread again I think you need to reconsider MBD as the likely culprit here. I still maintain that you will not be able to get a definite diagnosis without going to a vet but given the info you've provided I think it warrants another look.

I used to think that MBD was something that happened when irresponsible owners didn't give their lizards calcium. Unfortunately reality is far far more complex than this. I learned the hard way - I've always prided myself on my husbandry and I've kept reptiles for virtually my entire life. A few months ago I lost two of my Juvenile geckos to the disease despite having dusted every meal they ever ate. I was devastated - and honestly had trouble even believing the diagnosis at first as it struck so fast and left all of my older geckos unscathed.

Calcium intake is only one part of the equation. The foods you listed aren't particularly high in calcium so you definitely need supplementation. As far as I know the only foods that don't require it are foods with bone included. Liver, ground meats, and veggies don't have enough on their own. You are supplementing some which is good - The whole prey you got will be a huge improvement as I think the bone is absorbed better than supplements.

I think you have D3 covered - glass filters UVB and screen reduces it but from what you said you had two fairly powerful bulbs so I don't think a lack of D3 caused the issue. In fact if your main calcium source has d3 they may be getting too much but thinking about it more I don't believe that is your issue.

I honestly think the problem is the lack of a basking spot. Digestive enzymes only work properly at a narrow temp range. In humans this isn't an issue - we are warm blooded and stay at a constant 98.6 degrees. Reptiles are whatever temp they are exposed to - so while an 80 degree cage seems warm they can't properly digest unless they have access to a higher temp to thermally-regulate. The result is poor absorption of food, and the associated nutrients including calcium. This seems to be one of the more overlooked causes of MBD.

In juvenile lizards many of the initial signs of the disease are skipped - no early tremors, deformed limbs, etc. Their calcium requirements are insane so the disease can strike stunningly quickly.

The symptoms are seizures, tremors after exertion, kinks in spine, and paralysis/paresis of the limbs. It seems to be a perfect fit and the temporary lack of a basking spot could easily explain how it happened.

I can't stress enough that this is still a serious condition but it is treatable if you get to a vet. It sounds like you are putting a lot of work into getting a more permanent setup together which is good - but this will not resolve on its own even if a proper basking spot is provided. The vet can prescribe calcium injections and oral medications which will make a big difference in recovery. This condition can result in cardiac arrest - you may not have any warning if things are getting worse.

We are all rooting for her - Please promise me you will see a vet tomorrow.

Thank you, finally someone who took the time to actually fully explain things/give real input, and not half insults.
Your logic does make sense, and I think it is a 50/50 chance that its that or neurotic. I didn't think of it like that.
I think the basking light is REALLY helping, but only time will tell.
Again, how much does all the vet stuff cost? Just curious?
I have been holding her up and putting a worm in front of her, touching her mouth. She doesn't bite.. I will try a pinky next time.
Also, I can buy the liquid calcium n force feed her. Should I try that?? Cheaper alternative, and due to her size, its probably the same effects as what the vet can do.

 

[laurarfl]

Another issue with MBD (actually it is Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism) is that juvenile lizards have a superb demand for calcium, especially if they are fed large amounts of food to achieve rapid growth. The body MUST maintain a balanced level of calcium in the blood plasma in order for nerves, skeletal muscles, and organs such the heart and intestines to function normally. If the blood plasma cannot be maintained, then the parathyroid glands secrete a hormone that signals the bones to release calcium. The long-term symptoms of MBD (NSHP) are skeletal deformities, but the immediate signs are nueromuscular issues such as twitching, loss of appetite, poor muscular control. While i respect the knowledge your nurse has for human medicine, the common ailments for reptiles are a bit different.

Everything needs to be corrected for treatment: basking temps of 110-115, proper calcium supplementation, a quality UVB source set up at a proper distance, diet correction. A vet visit would probably cost about $100.

 

[SuperSkylar]

Another issue with MBD (actually it is Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism) is that juvenile lizards have a superb demand for calcium, especially if they are fed large amounts of food to achieve rapid growth. The body MUST maintain a balanced level of calcium in the blood plasma in order for nerves, skeletal muscles, and organs such the heart and intestines to function normally. If the blood plasma cannot be maintained, then the parathyroid glands secrete a hormone that signals the bones to release calcium. The long-term symptoms of MBD (NSHP) are skeletal deformities, but the immediate signs are nueromuscular issues such as twitching, loss of appetite, poor muscular control. While i respect the knowledge your nurse has for human medicine, the common ailments for reptiles are a bit different.

Everything needs to be corrected for treatment: basking temps of 110-115, proper calcium supplementation, a quality UVB source set up at a proper distance, diet correction. A vet visit would probably cost about $100.

I have all those in check. And she showed NO signs, hell she was even digesting her food... She had NO twitching, HUGE appetite, perfect muscle control..

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Thats why it was such a shock. Because sure the tank was small, but she was VERY healthy. She was starting to out grow the male lol. Then in the middle of the night, she had a seizure...

 

[SuperSkylar]

GREAT NEWS GUYS!
So she has been gulping up water (compared to before)
She can move her shoulders a liiittle bit!!
And shes not impacted because her super full tummy is going down!
YAAAAY!
Tomorrow, I will try to hand feed her a bloody calcium dusted pinky! I honestly doubt she'll take it, but its worth a shot
And what do you all think about the liquid calcium???