Worried about Kimo, take a look please!

[Max713]

I've noticed this for a while now, but it just really stuck out tonight. Kimo's lower jaw, especially on his left side, almost seems swollen, or puffy.
I don't really have anything to judge by, but after looking at some old pics, I can definitely say it looks different. Anybody have any idea as to what may be going on with him?
He's eating fine, acting normal, very alert, actually more active than normal! These pics were taken tonight at 10:00 PST, hes been up and about since I got home at 8, I imagine he had been up and about earlier in the day too, I've never seen him up past 7 before...
I was concerned, so I tried hand feeding him, in my hands (held him in one hand, offered him food with my fingers on the other hand). He took the food no problem, only got small glimpses of the inside of his mouth, but nothing looked wrong, good healthy pink color, etc, just looks swollen.
*Only did this to try to get a good look in his mouth*
He was such a good boy, he let me poke, prod and squeeze his mouth, without that much resistance. He wouldn't open it for me, but it did feel a bit soft, for a lizard mouth anyways. He didn't seem to have any kind of "pain" reaction, but that isn't really a good judge.
Also seems that he may be opening his mouth farther than normal to flick his tongue, but that I'm not very sure of.
If anyone has any ideas, PLEASE share. I love my little guy, I couldn't bare for anything to happen to him!
Am I just being a worried parent, or does something look wrong here?

I fear there aren't any good reptile vets in the area, but I think I'll start a search tomorrow. Keep in mind, I'm a broke college student, but I will do whatever is needed to insure his health, that's what emergency credit cards are for...

Thanks in advance everyone!

Here are a whole bunch of pics:

Just after "flicking:

Just before a flick, I think

Just after a flick

And a pic from yesterday afternoon, although not a good one.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

I haven't had any experience with it but sometimes I see pics of tegus that just came out of hibernation and their mouth is the same way,.. some even more so. I don't know if that causes it, maybe they're still coming around and need to rehydrate more or not but eventually someone with experience in that department will chime in. Since none of mine have ever hibernated.

As long as it doesn't get worse, its not red, discolored or anything oozing out of it I would just keep a close eye on it for now.

 

[Max713]

Thanks for the response, I hadn't heard of Tegu's having anything like that out of hibernation, a little reassuring. But Kimo didn't actually fully hibernate, he just "slowed down". He's now getting much more active, but I can't imagine that having an effect on his "condition".

If it were red/oozing/etc, I'd be driving to the nearest clinic

Like I said (and you can kind of see), it doesn't look wrong or unhealthy in any way, other than a slight "swollen" look.
I will most definitely keep an eye on it, thank you for the support.

Here's to hoping someone chimes in that has experienced something similar!

 

[chelvis]

Before i chime in i need to know set-up, ie lighting, humidity, diet (what is fed and how often), substurate. Any info you can give will help.

 

[frost]

well i havent really raised a tegu yet.but iv had some medical experience and i think a soak and open air and ubv should help. im not sure about the effects on tegus with antibiotics other wise id say swab the outer part of his mouth with some peroxide. if he hasent been outside lately i would let him out tho. i had a rabbit that had a gaping hole in his neck and we let him out for a week or so and it was completely healed. i know there two completely different animals but i think fresh open air can work wonders.

 

[Max713]

Before i chime in i need to know set-up, ie lighting, humidity, diet (what is fed and how often), substurate. Any info you can give will help.

Here's the specs:
(Only thing different from pic: basking rock changed to flat one(pictured), and basking bulb changed to 2 halogens, no more clamp lamp)

4x3x3
70-75% Humidity (misted daily)
80-85F Cool Side
Basking gradient, 100-125F
Multiple Hides (as you can see), one on cool side that stays very cool/moist
~4" Substrate w/ one area of ~10" Substrate (Coco Husk Coarse)
Large ~1.5" deep water dish, fresh daily

Lighting:
Halogen 70W + 50W (floods) basking area
Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube bulb
10 watt mini bulb for extra light
-50W ceramic to maintain night time temps
-All lighting is completely out of reach, at all times

Diet:
Lean ground turkey (93/7)
-Sprinkled with calcium once a week
-Fed everyday, he would only eat every other day, up until about a week ago he has begun eating everyday

-Handled usually daily
-Baths every other day, although I think Ill hold off on those for a while



Anything else you need to know? I don't want to sound arrogant, but my understanding (and what I've been told by many) is I have about the perfect setup for a juvenile Tegu.
Kimo will be 9 months old on May 18th, he about 17" long, very thick and healthy looking.

 

[Bubblz Calhoun]

For Diet you just have turkey listed,... do you feed anything else? Also you should add calcium to any meat that doesn't contain it when ever you feed them.

 

[jumper123]

I know of a gu that got that as a result of mbd. Not saying that's the official cause for your baby but it's a possibility.

 

[TheTeguGurl]

I know of a gu that got that as a result of mbd. Not saying that's the official cause for your baby but it's a possibility.

Yes in some cases it is a symptom of MBD, but it can also be a infection of the mouth also.... You say you are only putting calcium on his food once a wk? at that age is should be around every other feeding with a young Tegu

---

Diet:
Lean ground turkey (93/7)
-Sprinkled with calcium once a week
-Fed everyday, he would only eat every other day, up until about a week ago he has begun eating everyday

-Handled usually daily
-Baths every other day, although I think Ill hold off on those for a while

I would try to calcium his food more and give him more of a variety of food other then just the turkey. Try chicken heart, gizzards, liver, some types of fish. and fruits if he will take it.... Very nice enclosure btw

 

[laurarfl]

I second feeding calcium to anything without a high enough calcium content. Do his legs look a bit puffy, too, or is it just me? Given the diet, supplementation, and swollen jaw/legs, I'd be thinking calcium deficiency.

 

[Max713]

For Diet you just have turkey listed,... do you feed anything else? Also you should add calcium to any meat that doesn't contain it when ever you feed them.

Well, I used offer him a large variety of fruits with his turkey, but he showed zero interest. Also used to feed crickets, but I have since stopped.
I planned on widening his diet once he began eating more regularly, sounds like it may be that time.
Thinking I'll over egg yolk and turkey today, with some grapes (cut in half), and maybe a slice of banana.

I know of a gu that got that as a result of mbd. Not saying that's the official cause for your baby but it's a possibility.

God I hope not

I know of a gu that got that as a result of mbd. Not saying that's the official cause for your baby but it's a possibility.

Yes in some cases it is a symptom of MBD, but it can also be a infection of the mouth also.... You say you are only putting calcium on his food once a wk? at that age is should be around every other feeding with a young Tegu

---

Diet:
Lean ground turkey (93/7)
-Sprinkled with calcium once a week
-Fed everyday, he would only eat every other day, up until about a week ago he has begun eating everyday

-Handled usually daily
-Baths every other day, although I think Ill hold off on those for a while

I would try to calcium his food more and give him more of a variety of food other then just the turkey. Try chicken heart, gizzards, liver, some types of fish. and fruits if he will take it.... Very nice enclosure btw

---

I'll start adding calcium every meal!
I described his diet etc. better above, but I've never offered any other type of meat but turkey. I have some tillapia in the freezer I think I'll give a try, may need to run to the store and grab some chicken heart. How do you serve chicken heart/liver/ etc? Do you dice it for them?
Thanks for the compliment, my goal is to give him the absolute best care/life possible.

I second feeding calcium to anything without a high enough calcium content. Do his legs look a bit puffy, too, or is it just me? Given the diet, supplementation, and swollen jaw/legs, I'd be thinking calcium deficiency.

Now that you say something, his legs do look a little puffy...
As I said above, I'll be adding calcium to his diet daily fro now on, eventually slowing to every other day if his condition changes for the better.


Thanks for all the help everyone!
Max

 

[james.w]

How far away is the UVB tube?? The diet needs some variety if turkey is the only thing fed and needs to be dusted if it isn't whole prey. What calcium powder are you using?

 

[reptastic]

I second the thoughts on mbd, not saying its a definite thing but definately something to look into, i also noticed you didnt mention any whole prey, a sole turkey diet isnt giving him enough nutients and vitamins, he needs a wide variety of ground meats, organs and whole prey. I had an iguana that came to me with similar symptons turned out to be mbd but his was a worser case but me and the vet got him bk on track but his jaw was still crooked from it setting in to long, i see some one mentioned swabing it with peroxide, which was one of the things my vet suggested, just my thoughts keep us updated on kimo

 

[TheTeguGurl]

With the chicken hearts feed just as is, with the gizzards you can cut up to small pieces due to size of tegu. You can also get chicken or beef liver..Your tegu should also get whole prey like no more then 2 mice a wk. You can also get chicken breast with out bones..if it is a mbd issue you can buy some chicken neck. cut them up in small pieces to feed. the bone in the necks helps. When feeding eggs never raw. you can hard boil or scamble with the turkey. but too much eggs will give your little guy the runs..I would calcium every feeding or every other feeding till he is over a yr old..But I would deff take him in to see a vet to rule out anything esle

 

[james.w]

I would offer adult mice (its kind of gross, but cut them up while frozen) the bones are much better for him. Also get some roaches. When feeding turkey, chicken, or chicken parts make sure to use a quality calcium powder w/o D3.

 

[Max713]

How far away is the UVB tube?? The diet needs some variety if turkey is the only thing fed and needs to be dusted if it isn't whole prey. What calcium powder are you using?

The UVB tube is on the roof of his enclosure (inside), ~2.5' from him.
I would love to widen his diet, but so far he has been a picky little bastard! The only pinkies around here are those nasty little frozen ones... but I could chop him up a live mouse (I'm not squeemish...)
Hoping that now he is more active/awake, he will be a little more interested in different foods.
I'm using repti-calcium, without D3.

I second the thoughts on mbd, not saying its a definite thing but definately something to look into, i also noticed you didnt mention any whole prey, a sole turkey diet isnt giving him enough nutients and vitamins, he needs a wide variety of ground meats, organs and whole prey. I had an iguana that came to me with similar symptons turned out to be mbd but his was a worser case but me and the vet got him bk on track but his jaw was still crooked from it setting in to long, i see some one mentioned swabing it with peroxide, which was one of the things my vet suggested, just my thoughts keep us updated on kimo

God I hope its not MBD.... but it's looking like it may me. Did I catch it early enough to stop any real harm if I get him on a lot more calcium right away?
Like I said above, he's been a picky little eater, hoping I can get him to expand his diet. Like I said I have no problem chopping up a mouse for him, thinking I'll run to the store today for some chicken hearts too.

With the chicken hearts feed just as is, with the gizzards you can cut up to small pieces due to size of tegu. You can also get chicken or beef liver..Your tegu should also get whole prey like no more then 2 mice a wk. You can also get chicken breast with out bones..if it is a mbd issue you can buy some chicken neck. cut them up in small pieces to feed. the bone in the necks helps. When feeding eggs never raw. you can hard boil or scamble with the turkey. but too much eggs will give your little guy the runs..I would calcium every feeding or every other feeding till he is over a yr old..But I would deff take him in to see a vet to rule out anything esle

I've been looking for a good repti vet around my area, but I'm having a hard time finding one...
Look above for feeding plans.

I would offer adult mice (its kind of gross, but cut them up while frozen) the bones are much better for him. Also get some roaches. When feeding turkey, chicken, or chicken parts make sure to use a quality calcium powder w/o D3.

 

[james.w]

Is the UVB tube the only UVB you have? 2.5' is way to far away, I believe 20" is the max distance for them to be effective. You could always order rodents online, RodentPro is a great place. Live mice will work fine though as long as they are from a place you can trust. Euthanize them and then cut them up small enough for him to eat.

As far as catching it early enough, I would say yes. Get yourself a PowerSun MVB and get the calcium into him and he should heal nicely.

 

[Kebechet]

While I know it isn't traditional, if you're not wanting to feed mice, I suggest http://www.primalpetfoods.com/product/detail/c/7/id/3 Link has been doing fantastic on it. It runs about $25 for a 4lb bag, and lasts me about a month, and I've got a yearling. Calcium to phosphorus levels are good, though I still dust with repti-cal. Got some fruits in there too, as well as omegas. I also feed blueberries, chicken hearts, and the occasional egg. I do feed mice now and then, just because they're good for gu's. I also agree you've got a potential MBD problem on your hands. Don't start feeding huge amounts of calcium all at once though- I know it's easy to panic, but too much (pouring on powder liberally) isn't good either.

 

[james.w]

While I know it isn't traditional, if you're not wanting to feed mice, I suggest http://www.primalpetfoods.com/product/detail/c/7/id/3 Link has been doing fantastic on it. It runs about $25 for a 4lb bag, and lasts me about a month, and I've got a yearling. Calcium to phosphorus levels are good, though I still dust with repti-cal. Got some fruits in there too, as well as omegas. I also feed blueberries, chicken hearts, and the occasional egg. I do feed mice now and then, just because they're good for gu's. I also agree you've got a potential MBD problem on your hands. Don't start feeding huge amounts of calcium all at once though- I know it's easy to panic, but too much (pouring on powder liberally) isn't good either.

from reading the ingredients this seems like a good food for a portion of the diet, but I would still feed rodents and insects (roaches, worms).

 

[Max713]

Is the UVB tube the only UVB you have? 2.5' is way to far away, I believe 20" is the max distance for them to be effective. You could always order rodents online, RodentPro is a great place. Live mice will work fine though as long as they are from a place you can trust. Euthanize them and then cut them up small enough for him to eat.

As far as catching it early enough, I would say yes. Get yourself a PowerSun MVB and get the calcium into him and he should heal nicely.

I had no idea they had such a strict "distance" requirement. 20"!? Thats ridiculous... I just recently changed the bulb arrangement in the enclosure. The UVB bulbis proably right around 20-24" from his actual basking spot, 2.5' was referring to his enclosure in general.
Used to be just 3 bulbs: 1 Powersun 160w UVB over the basking spot, w/ 70w halogen spot pointed at the basking spot to raise surface temp, and a regular flourescent tube for extra light.
The Powersun bulb burned out at the 3 month mark, and I had the 10.0 UVB tube, so I created the new lighting setup, which I like much better... Luckily the PowerSun bulb is under warranty, I called and checked, etc. I just need to send it in, which I haven't got around to yet...
Putting the powersun back in there would put it around 18" from the basking position. And I just got all the enclosure temps exactly how I wanted them too!!!

The plan:
-Up his calcium intake, significantly
-Try to widen his diet (Kimo will decide that one...)
-Send the Powersun in, put it back in the enclosure (and try to get the enclosure temps back )
-Run to the store for: Grapes, Chicken Heart/Liver, Live Mice

Some mentioned swabbing his mouth, with vinager or paroxide. Would this be recommended by most?

Is everyone is in agreeance that MDB is causing this?
Thanks for all the further help[ everyone!