Is the reptile industry and community morally bankrupt?

[ashesc212]

These forums are not meant for an immature idiot to complain about breeders which he clearly knows nothing about. Breeders are what keeps the reptile industry alive. That is completely clear. There is no denying it. To say there are to many breeders is simply and purely moronic. Yeah obviously some people like to trade animals, when a BREEDER gets out of a project and into another, they will try to trade their animal for an animal they need for the new project. Likewise, when someone finds out they cannot properly take care of an animal they might want to trade for an animal they can take care of. Granted there are idiots who don't take care of their reptiles, but it's not like all people who breed reptiles sell to idiots only. The whole rant was childish and stupid, end of discussion.

If you really insist on taking this outside of the scope of thread, name calling, and going tit-for-tat, then fine. I suppose that a 15 year old who poses as someone who is 30 with the digits "80" in your nickname has more life experience than the older users on this forum? Funny, everyone has always referred to me as overly mature if anything.

Obviously you have comprehension issues and are unable to read the post for the actual gist of the matter. No one is saying that there aren't breeders out there who are trading animals so as to start new breeding projects. No one is saying that is bad. We are talking about those breeders who have a disregard for the animals that they breed either because they are jaded or for other reasons. No one is denying that breeders who love what they do and genuinely care about the animals are not important to the industry. No one is saying that ALL breeders sell to idiots only. Maybe you should go back and read the post again before you run your mouth or otherwise take some remedial reading comprehension classes.

Oh also, I seriously doubt that you and your fiance spend 5 grand a year on a fairly small number of reptiles. If so, you clearly take your animals to the vet quite frequently.

Oh really? I suppose you've been looking at my checking account? You see, when you are not 15 and you actually have 2 people in the household who have master's degrees and work in relatively high-paying jobs, you can actually afford to drop $5 grand if need be TO PROPERLY care for the reptiles and provide for their needs. I suppose a 15 year old's salary doesn't cut it? And for your information, taking care of 7 reptiles PROPERLY actually costs a lot of money. Yes, one of them had several vet visits due to an issue he was having but I suppose someone like you would rather that I just leave it untreated? ...and those aren't the only animals we have...

 

[Chuey]

Hey Tegu kid You are pi**ing me off. GROW UP. Your replies make you look out to be some snot nosed, know-it-all, pimple faced, 15 year old kid, still wet behind the ears.

We spend that much but its ok - we love our animals and make sure they they get the best care that we can provide for them. If you can't deal with that then whatever. Just stop being an annoying know it all.

I think breeders who make albinos are s**theads but I don't go attacking them. This thread was about just noting how angry I was that animals are too readily accesible to so many irresponsible pet owners.

 

[ashesc212]

If you live in the New York/New Jersey area I am not at all suprised with things like that being on craigslist simply due to the amount of people living in that area.

There are always going to be people that make everyone look bad, regardless if you are talking about reptiles or any other kind of pet.

That's a very good point!

 

[slideaboot]

I think you guys are giving a lot of people in the reptile community waaaaaay too much credit. I've been involved in this hobby for 25 years now and I can tell you that while there are a bunch of smaller-scale breeders, like Bobby, who truly care about offering a quality product (yes, your tegu or boa or bearded dragon IS a product to these types of breeders, regardless of how loving and high-pitched your voice is when you talk to to your animal), there are enough large-scale breeders with HUGE amounts of money (well, HUGE, relative to the smaller breeders) to spend on advertising and creating the facade of being a reputable breeder ("their website looks pro so they MUST be a quality breeder, right?"). These are the people that don't care about anything other than your credit card number--not your age, experience, intentions...NADA. They just want to get paid. They work with such huge numbers of animals and money that, in the end, the well-being of the animal is secondary or tertiary to their profits. Currently, there is at least one veterinarian that is KNOWINGLY endorsing vitamin supplements for reptiles that DO NOT PROVIDE the intended / advertised benefits....why? Because he can? Why? Because the pet industry is seriously lacking when it comes to regulation and, as long as it is, HE'S GONNA GET HIS (see: PAID).

So, what's one to do? Be educated ahead of time. Buy your animals from reputable sources. Continue educating yourself about your animals and their industry (the more you know about your species' origins, trade-history, current breeders/distributors, etc...the better prepared you can be to make decisions related to your animals.).

Tegukid...you're being a punk and need to chill out--throwing out a lot of mean-spirited adjectives and insults does ZERO for your credibility here as a tegu or reptile enthusiast.

**End transmission

 

[TeguKid80]

Okayyyy

 

[TeguKid80]

No I'm honestly not being a punk, but I find it annoying hearing someone mouth off about breeders... It's not like every breeder is bad or good but as a whole they support our hobby. Oh no you can insult me over the internet about my age? Now I'm really going to respect you. And you make a lot of money so you can afford 5000 a year on reptiles? Congratulations that's not really relevant. 80 has nothing to do with age or the year I was born. You're really overthinking my username but that is alright. I'm glad you guys have masters degrees but I don't get why that raises your credibility unless you got yours in something involving animals. Calling me a kid who is "wet behind the ears", is a major assumption you have no idea who I am or how much experience I have. If you saw the list of animals I've worked with you would probably bite your tongue. I am just as literate as you, except I do not degrade myself to actually swearing at you, I was describing your actions as moronic and idiotic, but well that's just my opinion. Slideaboot I don't think you seem to understand. Instead of chastising me and calling me a punk, research all the fantastic breeders that are out there. The good far outweigh the bad, and this is what keeps the reptile industry afloat through all the trouble and strife associated with keeping animals. And I don't keep nor do I breed albinos, although calling all people who breed albino animals sh%^heads is basically swearing at 50% of reptile breeders these days...

 

[slideaboot]

No I'm honestly not being a punk... Slideaboot I don't think you seem to understand. Instead of chastising me and calling me a punk, research all the fantastic breeders that are out there. The good far outweigh the bad, and this is what keeps the reptile industry afloat through all the trouble and strife associated with keeping animals.

First of all, your knowledge or lack of knowledge about breeders is not why I called you a punk. I called you a punk because...YOU WERE BEING A PUNK--slinging insults and such.

Secondly...if you would have read my post, you would see that I acknowledged that there are quality, reputable breeders out there.

"The good far outweigh the bad"...that's YOUR opinion...and forgive me for not taking the opinion of somebody who can't understand the value or relevance of a master's degree too seriously. Because if you can't understand THAT, how are you going to sit there and say that you've experienced and seen enough of the reptile industry to TRULY understand it AND expect us to take you seriously?

 

[TeguKid80]

I understand the value of it, I do not see a need to rub it into someone's face and act like you are superior to them. Hmm maybe I was being a punk, if so sorry about that but I stated my opinion and I will stick to it. I don't really care if you take me seriously, and I don't honestly expect you to. You obviously have no respect for younger people and well that's alright. Many don't. I am sorry if I offended you personally. I in no way personally insulted you. I arguably insulted someone who came right back at me with legitimate immature insults. I stated what I thought about his opinion he came after me as a person.

 

[ashesc212]

I understand the value of it, I do not see a need to rub it into someone's face and act like you are superior to them. Hmm maybe I was being a punk, if so sorry about that but I stated my opinion and I will stick to it. I don't really care if you take me seriously, and I don't honestly expect you to. You obviously have no respect for younger people and well that's alright. Many don't. I am sorry if I offended you personally. I in no way personally insulted you. I arguably insulted someone who came right back at me with legitimate immature insults. I stated what I thought about his opinion he came after me as a person.

I don't know if you are referring to me (I prefer to think of myself as a lady, not a "he" but maybe you meant Chuey) or Chuey but yes I came back at you with insults only to show you how you are treating other people. Of my 900+ posts on this forum, you'll see none of the others were anything like the one I wrote to you. That is how under my skin you got with your mean-spirited comments.

-and yes, you attacked us for who we are. You have accused us of starting liberal and animal-rights posts and degrading us for it (on the post about Animal Planet). The sad part is that you do this without knowing who we really are and that's why I actually put the effort into finding more about you and why you would be acting this way...

I am certainly NOT liberal and I am also NOT an animal-rights activist in the way you meant it. I am not a member of HSUS or PETA, just a concerned member of the reptile community who wants to get other people's valid and evidence-backed thoughts on the reptile industry. I am all for hearing other people's opinions, but not mean-spirited ones.

On that note, may we continue discussing this thread without insulting other people?

 

[TeguKid80]

Yes that would be lovely, although I still think the start of the thread was rather degrading towards the reptile industry as a whole. I am fine making peace. We are good in my eyes.

 

[chris allen]

I think breeders who make albinos are s**theads but I don't go attacking them. .

Come on Chuey :mad

Btw, the dubia have been great :roon

Maybe if I ever get albino babies I can repay you with one :rasp

 

[Chuey]

I think breeders who make albinos are s**theads but I don't go attacking them. .

Come on Chuey :mad

Btw, the dubia have been great :roon

Maybe if I ever get albino babies I can repay you with one :rasp

Man, I knew that was going to raise some ears. I don't think its right if the animal originally needs UVB, to breed albinism. I can't change my stance on that. If its just a step towards getting the high white without the unwanted qualities I could buy it. I wouldn't really buy it, but would be better about it.

But anyhow, Its just my opinion and doesn't mean anything though.

Still much respect to you! Glad the Dubias are doing well, feed off as many as you can before winter comes! They get bored during winter and go into baby making mode, lol.

 

[Chuey]

And for the record my stance is the same. Here's a prime example and how we got to that $5K number. Marshall's is the largest supplier of ferrets in the U.S. they have a habit of fixing their ferrets at too young of an age. The result are hormone fluxations that cause adrenal disease right around the 4-5 year mark.

2 out of 4 Marshall's ferrets suffer from this. They could sex the ferrets and sell only all males are all females to particular stores. They don't though, they fix them and as a result the ferrets get this f*ed up disease. 2 out of 4 of our ferrets had this. Its a $200 vet visit a month per ferret. We didn't know, we just thought they were these crazy little weasels when we first got them.

Ferrets from responsible breeders don't get adrenal disease in the proportion that Marshall's does. But Marshall's is this giant industry selling ferrets and 20lb bags of food for 40 bucks a pop will they stop their practices most likely not. Because their system and enterprise probably supports $50million in sales and thats a paycheck to a whole lot of folks.

Has anyone noticed when they go to Petsmarts and Petcos. The reptiles especially the beardies that they sell are getting younger and younger and the price for them lower and lower. Live animals are commoditized like a sack of potatoes.

I don't support that crap. But I also didn't sit on my arse when they tried to take our rights away with trying to ban reptile ownership. We wrote 100 letters to assemblyman and senators to try and affect change. We didn't sit around and whine on a forum. So at least I back my talk with action in a level headed manner without having to be a tree hugger or an unethical breeder just out for the money.