- Messages
- 766
That's really not the entire purpose of the substrate but there's no reason to get into it since apparently substrate isn't necessary for the animals survival.
-
Hello guest! Are you a Tegu enthusiast? If so, we invite you to join our community! Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Tegu enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your Tegu and enclosure and have a great time with other Tegu fans. Sign up today! If you have any questions, problems, or other concerns email [email protected]!
New Sumatran Water Monitor
- Thread starter m3s4
- Start date
Hi there. Registered just because of this thread. I currently have 6 waters of various ages im bringing up with the hopes of ending up with either a pair or with 1 good animal. Those that dont make the cut will be sold off, since nobody in their right mind can house a whole group of these.
Anyway, here's what i've figured with them. The best ones that came in looked like yours - skinny and dehydrated. They are all like that and it will take about 3 weeks of daily high calorie diet and humidity to get them to fill up. They also don't fill up much till they are done growing so they will be on the skinny side for a while unlike other monitor species that are "plump babies".
Substrate.. 1 of 6 is somewhat of a digger and only enough to cover his body and perch his head out of the entrance to watch. They are far more arboreal than diggers at this age (and ever really). Would rather lounge on the branches etc. So don't worry about substrate much. You just need it so they have something to walk on and to maintain humidity. 5-10" of good cypress mulch will maintain humidity in the 80s if your setup is properly insulated and heated. Use a heat pad under a large rough surface tile as basking spot and put up a 40watt bulb over that. Instant 130+ degree basking spot that won't kill the air humidity in half the cage. To heat the rest of the cage use heat emitters/radiant heat panels. Keep it hot for the young ones. daily ambient around 92 on the cool end which should also be your amb outside the basking. If you drop it down to 74 like some say, they will go sleep in the water and slow metabolism a lot. They will sleep where it is warm as long as the spot is secure enough. I keep lights on all the time. They are not really diurnal... they dont care what time it is. They will sleep and roam on their own clock. Often times i noticed them roaming at night trying to warm up. After leaving habitat on 24/7 they do the same sleep regiment and will bask at 3am, or go to sleep at 2pm etc. Whatever they want to do. Let them choose.
5 out of 6 will not touch insects and never did. This might explain why they all come in skinny; they dont eat the stuff they are fed. They all eat rodents though so have a stack of 1day and 2-3 day pinkies at hand. For an extra boost, mix up some carnivore diet (from oxbow) and some D3 calcium in a dish with some water and inject the solution into the mice before feeding. This will essentially gut load the food on steroids. They are picky eaters and will not gorge. They will not eat if stressed too much and about half will refuse to eat unless hidden. If they bite the food but not eat it, you are the issue. Go away from there and let them swallow. If they dont bite it, leave it in there and go away. Come back in 10 hours or so. Should be gone. If not, the animal is either full and digesting or something is wrong and its probably in the reptiles mind/your husbandry. Mine have started eating from 3 hours after arrival up to 3 days after arrival.
Worms are actually quite rare in asian species. The african ones are full of them. These guys probably have protozoas. When you treat them for worms, you are doing nothing to the proto and just killing the animals system and appetite. Don't worm them! In fact, don't even proto treat them until they have established themselves. You want to avoid anything that will make them even pickier eaters than they already are... A lot of people think they have parasites because their poo is rather messed up compared to other species and since they go in the water, it breaks it down further. So it may appear they have constant diarrhea.... when nothing is wrong.
Keep in mind that most people parroting what you have to do with these have never even touched one. They just read it and it sounded good to them so they repeat it everywhere they have the chance.
Good luck
Anyway, here's what i've figured with them. The best ones that came in looked like yours - skinny and dehydrated. They are all like that and it will take about 3 weeks of daily high calorie diet and humidity to get them to fill up. They also don't fill up much till they are done growing so they will be on the skinny side for a while unlike other monitor species that are "plump babies".
Substrate.. 1 of 6 is somewhat of a digger and only enough to cover his body and perch his head out of the entrance to watch. They are far more arboreal than diggers at this age (and ever really). Would rather lounge on the branches etc. So don't worry about substrate much. You just need it so they have something to walk on and to maintain humidity. 5-10" of good cypress mulch will maintain humidity in the 80s if your setup is properly insulated and heated. Use a heat pad under a large rough surface tile as basking spot and put up a 40watt bulb over that. Instant 130+ degree basking spot that won't kill the air humidity in half the cage. To heat the rest of the cage use heat emitters/radiant heat panels. Keep it hot for the young ones. daily ambient around 92 on the cool end which should also be your amb outside the basking. If you drop it down to 74 like some say, they will go sleep in the water and slow metabolism a lot. They will sleep where it is warm as long as the spot is secure enough. I keep lights on all the time. They are not really diurnal... they dont care what time it is. They will sleep and roam on their own clock. Often times i noticed them roaming at night trying to warm up. After leaving habitat on 24/7 they do the same sleep regiment and will bask at 3am, or go to sleep at 2pm etc. Whatever they want to do. Let them choose.
5 out of 6 will not touch insects and never did. This might explain why they all come in skinny; they dont eat the stuff they are fed. They all eat rodents though so have a stack of 1day and 2-3 day pinkies at hand. For an extra boost, mix up some carnivore diet (from oxbow) and some D3 calcium in a dish with some water and inject the solution into the mice before feeding. This will essentially gut load the food on steroids. They are picky eaters and will not gorge. They will not eat if stressed too much and about half will refuse to eat unless hidden. If they bite the food but not eat it, you are the issue. Go away from there and let them swallow. If they dont bite it, leave it in there and go away. Come back in 10 hours or so. Should be gone. If not, the animal is either full and digesting or something is wrong and its probably in the reptiles mind/your husbandry. Mine have started eating from 3 hours after arrival up to 3 days after arrival.
Worms are actually quite rare in asian species. The african ones are full of them. These guys probably have protozoas. When you treat them for worms, you are doing nothing to the proto and just killing the animals system and appetite. Don't worm them! In fact, don't even proto treat them until they have established themselves. You want to avoid anything that will make them even pickier eaters than they already are... A lot of people think they have parasites because their poo is rather messed up compared to other species and since they go in the water, it breaks it down further. So it may appear they have constant diarrhea.... when nothing is wrong.
Keep in mind that most people parroting what you have to do with these have never even touched one. They just read it and it sounded good to them so they repeat it everywhere they have the chance.
Good luck
- Messages
- 4,337
guest2012 said:
Welcome to the forum.
Do you mind sharing some photos of your 6 monitors and their enclosures?
- Messages
- 216
- Location
- Southeast Louisiana
Thats right guest2012.
Youre new here and dont know the ropes so its ok.
But you cant come in and post about 6 water monitors without dropping some pix.
And welcome to the forum.
Youre new here and dont know the ropes so its ok.
But you cant come in and post about 6 water monitors without dropping some pix.
And welcome to the forum.
- Messages
- 766
Never use heat pads. I didn't bother reading the rest of the post.
yulyani
Member
- Messages
- 106
Dear Friends....wow this thread is developing more and more everyday....I just want to say to the sumatran water monitor owner, if this forum is very2 useful for the pet owner to interact and I really grateful to all of my forum friends about their opinion...of course in the life there is degree of biologist, herpetologist, veterinarians, vet tech, breeders, keepers etc,...but the input from anybody will be very2 useful...I have many friends of leading vets from abroad, the big reptiles farm owners, and also just very simple person eg keepers at my friends farm, even the reptiles sellers.... and I learn so many different things from them....When my lizard is having problem, I will contact them ASAP to get the best input and best treatment so I hope the result will be the best that I can do................
If on the first place.... something is not perfect in our husbandry, it is ok,...nothing is perfect but I think we should act to fix it... that's why we join this forum.... to learn more....I will do anything..... including put away my ego,...for the good of my own pets....
If on the first place.... something is not perfect in our husbandry, it is ok,...nothing is perfect but I think we should act to fix it... that's why we join this forum.... to learn more....I will do anything..... including put away my ego,...for the good of my own pets....
Dana C
Member
- Messages
- 633
Thelegendofcharlie said:Thats right guest2012.
Youre new here and dont know the ropes so its ok.
But you cant come in and post about 6 water monitors without dropping some pix.
And welcome to the forum.
For the record, there are no "ropes" to learn on this site. Pictures or no pictures knowledgeable feedback, well thought out questions are always welcome at least by myself and most others. If you look, there are hundreds of people who visit the forum looking for answers or general information about their lizards and 99% of them will never post nor respond to a post. IMHO they are valued members as much as any of you or I.
What I am trying to say is that in addition to the few that seem to try and dominate the web site, there are also people that are helpful in a polite, welcoming and thoughtful way that we don't hear from enough.
Yulyani, Laura FL, Frost, James, Bubblz and others always have great advice, well researched and presented in a palatable fashion. Hopefully I can count myself among those folks and the others whom I respect.
I am going to post this elsewhere on this web site as it needs to be said.
As you can see this is already turning into a bashing fest so there won't be further posts (if the guest name didnt give that away) nor any photos to feed people.
if you want photos and videos, look on youtube. i post my media there. up to you to figure who is who.
Enjoy the hate. Typical of monitor forums/sections.
if you want photos and videos, look on youtube. i post my media there. up to you to figure who is who.
Enjoy the hate. Typical of monitor forums/sections.
- Messages
- 4,337
guest2012 said:
Typical of those who have no idea what they are talking about. How hard is it to post pics of what you claim you have??
- Messages
- 216
- Location
- Southeast Louisiana
Dana C said:Thelegendofcharlie said:Thats right guest2012.
Youre new here and dont know the ropes so its ok.
But you cant come in and post about 6 water monitors without dropping some pix.
And welcome to the forum.
For the record, there are no "ropes" to learn on this site. Pictures or no pictures knowledgeable feedback, well thought out questions are always welcome at least by myself and most others. If you look, there are hundreds of people who visit the forum looking for answers or general information about their lizards and 99% of them will never post nor respond to a post. IMHO they are valued members as much as any of you or I.
What I am trying to say is that in addition to the few that seem to try and dominate the web site, there are also people that are helpful in a polite, welcoming and thoughtful way that we don't hear from enough.
Yulyani, Laura FL, Frost, James, Bubblz and others always have great advice, well researched and presented in a palatable fashion. Hopefully I can count myself among those folks and the others whom I respect.
I am going to post this elsewhere on this web site as it needs to be said.
It was just a joke about wanting to see pictures.
Sorry if this was taken out of context by anyone.
james.w said:
Was hoping you would actually have something to say to disprove anything i wrote, instead of doing the so expected good ol' baiting. Honestly, isnt the entire varanus enough of a fishing ground for you guys?
See now i regret for ever snaking back into online monitor world. Just for once in your life, LET IT GO
- Messages
- 2,673
- Location
- Central FL
Thank you, Dana, for your kind words and I do count you among those you give thoughtful information in respectful manner. Guest2012, welcome to the forum and your point of view as well.
I don't keep monitors, but this is one species that interests me, so I have been reading. I can add general information, but not care specifics to monitors. I do agree that monitor forums are pretty aggressive, so I usually don't go there.
I don't keep monitors, but this is one species that interests me, so I have been reading. I can add general information, but not care specifics to monitors. I do agree that monitor forums are pretty aggressive, so I usually don't go there.
Dana C
Member
- Messages
- 633
james.w said:
Posting pictures is great but one doesn't need to prove anything to anyone via that medium.
- Messages
- 4,337
The problem with him not being willing to post pics makes it hard to believe he has any experience. Sounds a lot like someone that just wants to be involved or sound like he knows what he is talking about.
As far as disproving what you are saying guest, monitors use substrate for more than just digging. It is used as a means of retaining moisture, and providing a safe place to retreat too. As far as not eating insects, what do you think they eat in the wild. If provided for properly they will eat just about anything that gets near their mouth.
As far as disproving what you are saying guest, monitors use substrate for more than just digging. It is used as a means of retaining moisture, and providing a safe place to retreat too. As far as not eating insects, what do you think they eat in the wild. If provided for properly they will eat just about anything that gets near their mouth.
Internet forums will always have debate... it's human nature isn't it; so many different minds with their own ideas of what is right and wrong. Online aggression, however, is never needed. The guy has come forward and shown his monitor and suddenly there's a horrific uproar.
I have absolutely no experience with this type of monitor... my only monitor knowledge is of Savs.
I can understand people may feel the need to put in a more, 'stern' posting approach, as they're worried for the health of a creature; but think of all the reptiles around the world owned by 13 year old kids who house them in tiny vivs with the wrong temps etc; this guy is not one of those people... and harsh comments won't change a persons perception.
If people took a lighter, and NICER approach to their advice, it might actually get somewhere.
"No substrate? it's going to die" - as opposed to; "I notice you haven't used substrate, have you tried using substrate to see if your monitor prefers it?"
.
I have absolutely no experience with this type of monitor... my only monitor knowledge is of Savs.
I can understand people may feel the need to put in a more, 'stern' posting approach, as they're worried for the health of a creature; but think of all the reptiles around the world owned by 13 year old kids who house them in tiny vivs with the wrong temps etc; this guy is not one of those people... and harsh comments won't change a persons perception.
If people took a lighter, and NICER approach to their advice, it might actually get somewhere.
"No substrate? it's going to die" - as opposed to; "I notice you haven't used substrate, have you tried using substrate to see if your monitor prefers it?"
.
m3s4
New Member
- Messages
- 317
Guest2012 - thanks for all the valuable information you've contributed to this thread. Of ALL the people that have contributed information here, I think there's only 3-4 of us who actually even have or have had these monitors. Ironic considering all of the generalized posts, imo.
Obviously, your advice and input is fully appreciated and I respect your opinions regarding these monitors. So my thanks.
Dana - thanks for your insight and wisdom concerning generalized posting behavior as well.
To the rest of you, who feel the need to critique ANYONE's husbandry or approach in this regard, until you have successfully raised a Sumatran Water Monitor, take a step and ease back. Your narcissistic approach to this situation only makes you look closed-minded and feeble in your attempt to "convice" ANYONE else YOU are right and WE are wrong.
Only time will tell, and until you step outside of the box you've locked yourself into, your closed-mindedness will only fall on deaf ears, so long as you're talking to me.
Lastly, since this entire thread is/was about my monitor, he's doing perfectly fine. There's no need to ask me what I'm doing differently now, what I've changed or haven't changed or what he's eating or not eating. All you need to know is things are 100% better then when he first arrived and aside from his enormous appetite - he has an enclosure, food, temps and humidity levels that are quite appropriate and accommodating enough to meet his current needs.
And no, I don't need to post pics of him, or his enclosure or anything else that YOU think might solidify my story. In all honesty, I could care less what anyone thinks. It isn't your life, your monitor or your concern. Worry about yourself, worry about your own animals and keep it moving.
Obviously, your advice and input is fully appreciated and I respect your opinions regarding these monitors. So my thanks.
Dana - thanks for your insight and wisdom concerning generalized posting behavior as well.
To the rest of you, who feel the need to critique ANYONE's husbandry or approach in this regard, until you have successfully raised a Sumatran Water Monitor, take a step and ease back. Your narcissistic approach to this situation only makes you look closed-minded and feeble in your attempt to "convice" ANYONE else YOU are right and WE are wrong.
Only time will tell, and until you step outside of the box you've locked yourself into, your closed-mindedness will only fall on deaf ears, so long as you're talking to me.
Lastly, since this entire thread is/was about my monitor, he's doing perfectly fine. There's no need to ask me what I'm doing differently now, what I've changed or haven't changed or what he's eating or not eating. All you need to know is things are 100% better then when he first arrived and aside from his enormous appetite - he has an enclosure, food, temps and humidity levels that are quite appropriate and accommodating enough to meet his current needs.
And no, I don't need to post pics of him, or his enclosure or anything else that YOU think might solidify my story. In all honesty, I could care less what anyone thinks. It isn't your life, your monitor or your concern. Worry about yourself, worry about your own animals and keep it moving.
- Messages
- 4,337
If you don't want to share, why are you on a public forum?
Amen to that James. If one posts on a forum, it is to find out what others think about it. if one only expects praise and pats on the back then he/she should only disclose things to their mom or grandma. But, I guess this forum is in danger of falling to the illness of "everyone is right, everyone is special, and no one can hear they are wrong". I am done here. Good bye.
